Rally liability insurance question

[awagnon]

I posted this question on the BMWMOA Rally forum. It's early, but so far little response. I'd like to try here.

 

Open question for rallymasters: As our club begins planning for next year's rally, the question of liability insurance comes up. I was wondering how may rallies carry insurance and how many don't?

 

If you have it, where is the best place to get it?

 

About how much coverage should you have and what is the usual cost?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who answers this thread.

 

Alton Wagnon

Secretary, Utah Beehive Beemers

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[Jim VonBaden]

I've done our club rally of 200+ for the last two years. We purchased our rally insurance from the MOA, IIRC, and it cost about $350 for a 3 day rally.

 

Jim

[awagnon]

We purchased our rally insurance from the MOA, IIRC, and it cost about $350 for a 3 day rally.

 

Thanks, Jim, for the info. Does your rally sell beer on site? I've heard this affects the cost or availability of insurance. We do have a beer garden at our rally of about 300 riders.

[sebjones906]

Our Toy Run, a one day event for 1300+, carries AMA insurance. I think it is about $340 for a million$ coverage. However, We sell no booze at the Run. The Elks have the Beer Wagon and they get a beer garden permit. Two distinct insurances waivers.

[awagnon]

Thanks, Sam for the input. This is Utah. You won't see Lions clubs, or any other social organization selling beer. That would be probably be taboo in this state.

[Twisties]

With insurance comes waivers, and with waivers come terms. I am fine with waiving any responsibility of the club to me or my heirs for an accident I might be involved in. I'm happy to ride at my own risk, and carry my own insurance for those risks.

 

But most waivers also contain indemnification clauses. These are clauses that require the rider to protect the club against any claims against it. In some cases they are unlimited, e.g. such claims may not even have to arise from the rider's actions, or even that particular event.

 

The rider's insurance is not likely to pay for costs arising from an indemnification agreement, and these costs could easily bankrupt a rider, rising into the millions of dollars.

 

I would urge club officers to avoid indemnification clauses as they unfair to the riders. If a club is required to include an indemnification clause by their insurer, the club should negotiate terms that are as narrowly crafted as possible.

 

The club should bear it's own liability to third parties.

[awagnon]

Twisties, thanks for the info. I'll talk with you about this in Victor, Idaho, this weekend. Ride safely.

[Deadboy]

If you really want to learn about minimizing your clubs event liability you need to take one of the AMA's risk management seminars, which is mandatory for all AMA clubs and promoters who run an event under an AMA sanction or charter (even if they get their insurance from a different provider).

 

The risk management seminars are typically held each fall in every AMA district around the country and are open to anyone who is interested. Liability is no joke....

 

http://www.amadirectlink.com/clubs/club.asp

 

They also just announced their new "track smart" seminar which is probably more than you need but something to consider for the future....

 

http://www.amadirectlink.com/organizers/TrackSmart/

[awagnon]

Deadboy,

 

Thank you for the post. I will definately look into the seminar. I'm a member of AMA, but I doubt most of our club is, and I don't think we are AMA sanctioned. Something to consider, though. Good points.

[sebjones906]

In order to get AMA insurance your club must be AMA Sanctioned. To be Sanctioned your club must have X number (I forgot the number) of your members, members of AMA. The club has to also send 2 members to a Liability Seminar every other year. The seminar boils down to ... The event organizers must set thing up as a normal person would do prudently. ie. A slow race set up safety as opposed to a slow race on the edge of a cliff.

<Personally, I think all motorcyclist should be members of AMA, but I don't want to start that argument here.>

.......................

In understand the beer question in Utah, lived there for years, but remember the ELKS have bars in their Lodges and can get Beer Garden Permits that attach to their regular Lic. Plus, the Lodge in Provo has a huge parking lot. Just a thought.

[bakerzdosen]

Plus, the Lodge in Provo has a huge parking lot. Just a thought.

Nope. They have a new building in what was their parking lot and a KFC/A&W in the space where the building was. Google maps hasn't been updated yet, or I'd point it out there.

[Deadboy]

All true and may or may not be worth it for your club/situation...but the price for the insurance is supposed to be very competitive according to the promoters I know and the coverage will in fact be correct for these types of events and underwritten by a carrier that knows motorsports and motorcycle events. Nothing worse than finding out your cousin’s friend who sold you a "killer" policy for half price didn't know what he was doing...you get what you pay for....

[Jim VonBaden]

We purchased our rally insurance from the MOA, IIRC, and it cost about $350 for a 3 day rally.

 

Thanks, Jim, for the info. Does your rally sell beer on site? I've heard this affects the cost or availability of insurance. We do have a beer garden at our rally of about 300 riders.

 

Technically we do NOT sell beer. We have "donations" for the beer tickets, and exchange tickets for beer.

 

It is a sidestep the location owners, and the insurance company accept.

 

Jim

[sebjones906]

Plus, the Lodge in Provo has a huge parking lot. Just a thought.

Nope. They have a new building in what was their parking lot and a KFC/A&W in the space where the building was. Google maps hasn't been updated yet, or I'd point it out there.

 

Been a couple of years since I've been in Provo, (they keep running me out of town and I have to sneek in under cover of darkness)... thanks for the info about the lodge.

[awagnon]

Technically we do NOT sell beer. We have "donations" for the beer tickets, and exchange tickets for beer.

 

Jim, thanks for the reply. We do the same thing, sell tickets which are exchanged for beer. And we only give beer to attendees with arm bands. Minors have a different colored band. However, I didn't know the thing about tickets reduced liability. I'll ask the MOA insurance guy about this. Thanks,

 

Al

[awagnon]

In understand the beer question in Utah, lived there for years, but remember the ELKS have bars in their Lodges and can get Beer Garden Permits that attach to their regular Lic.

 

Sam, thanks for the input. We have our rally in Panguitch, Utah. I'm not sure there is anyone there who will sell beer for us like Elks, Lions or American Legion. We piggyback onto the town's convention liquor license since we have the rally at their fairgrounds. I'm not sure that changes our liability, though, since we exchange the beer for tickets we sell. Also, as I mentioned, we feel it is safer to provide beer at the rally than having riders go get it elsewhere and possibly riding under the influence.

[sebjones906]

When is your rally? Send me a flyer.

[awagnon]

When is your rally? Send me a flyer.

 

Sam,

 

Our rally is usually the second or third weekend in June. Unfortunately, it often conflicts with Father's Day. We have the rally in Panguitch, Utah, which is near Zion and Bryce Canyon National Parks, several National Forests, Torrey, and others. In June, the nights are cool ( sometimes cold ) and the days cool for riding because Panguitch is above 6,000 feet. You can find out more about it by following our website at: www.beehive-beemers.org

[sebjones906]

Thanks Al. I know the area. Will look for it next year.