BMWMOA, Current State of Affairs?

[Gizmo]

About the time I took a sabbatical from motorcycling there was quite a bit of change at MOA and regretfully Sandy Cohen left her post as editor. Since then I let my membership lapse and have been out of touch. I am curious to know how the changes have gone and what peoples perspectives are now?

[Ken H.]

From the perspective of reading the magazine anyway, not much seems to have changed, for better or for worse.

[John Ranalletta]

About the time I took a sabbatical from motorcycling there was quite a bit of change at MOA and regretfully Sandy Cohen left her post as editor. Since then I let my membership lapse and have been out of touch. I am curious to know how the changes have gone and what peoples perspectives are now?

I quit paying dues over a year ago and it took your post to remind me how much I've missed, i.e. less than zero.

[marcopolo]

I'm an MOA member, and I'd say that the magazine has clearly improved of late. To me it's worth the dues just to get the annual Anonymous book, and the mag.

[moshe_levy]

I'm an MOA member, and I'd say that the magazine has clearly improved of late. To me it's worth the dues just to get the annual Anonymous book, and the mag.

 

+1 The first few ON issues under Vince were lacking, but now he's found his pace and it's an excellent monthly. The Anonymous book came in handy on our recent cross country journey. For the small membership dues, you get ahelluva lot more actual content than any other group I've ever been a part of (like HOG).

 

-MKL

[Mike]

I agree. The magazine has gotten a bit better, though it's never going to set any standards for literary excellence. I like the mag for its occasionally newsworthy articles and because it is THE source for vendors of BMWs and BMW-related products. I've never gone to a national rally, though I may stop in for a day this year since it's close to where I live.

 

If I have any criticism of the MOA, it's in the fact that they don't seem to do anything in terms of owner advocacy or pressing BMW to improve its offerings or customer service. On the contrary, they seem to position themselves as more of a marketing adjunct to BMW Motorrad. Obviously brand enthusiasm is a huge part of the organization, but they don't seem to do much for their members in the sense of working for the owner/members when BMW says or does something boneheaded.

[Jeff98362]

I agree. The magazine has gotten a bit better, though it's never going to set any standards for literary excellence. I like the mag for its occasionally newsworthy articles and because it is THE source for vendors of BMWs and BMW-related products. I've never gone to a national rally, though I may stop in for a day this year since it's close to where I live.

 

If I have any criticism of the MOA, it's in the fact that they don't seem to do anything in terms of owner advocacy or pressing BMW to improve its offerings or customer service. On the contrary, they seem to position themselves as more of a marketing adjunct to BMW Motorrad. Obviously brand enthusiasm is a huge part of the organization, but they don't seem to do much for their members in the sense of working for the owner/members when BMW says or does something boneheaded.

 

Well put...+1.

[onedae]

"If I have any criticism of the MOA, it's in the fact that they don't seem to do anything in terms of owner advocacy or pressing BMW to improve its offerings or customer service. On the contrary, they seem to position themselves as more of a marketing adjunct to BMW Motorrad. "

 

Compared to HOG, MOA is a consumer advocacy machine!!!

[John in VA]

I still like the magazine, except that it's full of typos, misspellings and grammatical errors, which almost never occurred when Sandy was editor. Not a serious problem, but annoying and unnecessary.

[PhillyFlash]

If I have any criticism of the MOA, it's in the fact that they don't seem to do anything in terms of owner advocacy or pressing BMW to improve its offerings or customer service. On the contrary, they seem to position themselves as more of a marketing adjunct to BMW Motorrad. Obviously brand enthusiasm is a huge part of the organization, but they don't seem to do much for their members in the sense of working for the owner/members when BMW says or does something boneheaded.

 

As Whip would say, they all drank the Kool-Aide.

[Bud]

If I have any criticism of the MOA, it's in the fact that they don't seem to do anything in terms of owner advocacy or pressing BMW to improve its offerings or customer service. On the contrary, they seem to position themselves as more of a marketing adjunct to BMW Motorrad. Obviously brand enthusiasm is a huge part of the organization, but they don't seem to do much for their members in the sense of working for the owner/members when BMW says or does something boneheaded.

 

As Whip would say, they all drank the Kool-Aide.

 

I drink the Kool-Aide and it's great.

 

Leaving tomorrow for the rally in West Bend.

 

If you read the articles of incorporation of the MOA, you will find out that it is not their stated purpose to be an advocate for owners with BMW.

 

Many folks think it should be their role but it would require, IMO, a change to the articles of incorporation.

 

ON content way up under Vince and Mandy. Full color. I would say overall it is an improvement compared to the last three issues produced by the previous editor, which were the only ones I read prior to the change.

 

MOA recognizes the changes blowing thru the BMW world. Look at the numerous new offerings already on the dealers floor and then look at the bikes under development. It's not your father's BMW any more. It appears that BMW is interested in growing a business and is looking for different and additional customers beyond the Boxer fans.

 

These new customers are the future of MOA. Organizations either grow or die. Some take 20+ years to die, but die none-the-less. I think the Board of Directors is trying to position MOA to attract younger members since the average age of current members is over 50. While the average age of BMWST members is most likely less than that, we are not average BMW owners.

 

Time will tell if this is a brilliant strategic move or something else.

 

YMWV

[Iron Al]

I'm an MOA member, and I'd say that the magazine has clearly improved of late. To me it's worth the dues just to get the annual Anonymous book, and the mag.

 

+1

[Amac]

About the time I took a sabbatical from motorcycling there was quite a bit of change at MOA and regretfully Sandy Cohen left her post as editor. Since then I let my membership lapse and have been out of touch. I am curious to know how the changes have gone and what peoples perspectives are now?

 

Matter of perspective, I suppose. The magazine, at least in my opinion, is a bit of a fanboy affair these days, liked it better in the old days. I've got time left on my membership but even though I ride to the rallies don't have a BMW in the garage and will let the MOA membership lapse.

[Tasker]

If I have any criticism of the MOA, it's in the fact that they don't seem to do anything in terms of owner advocacy or pressing BMW to improve its offerings or customer service. On the contrary, they seem to position themselves as more of a marketing adjunct to BMW Motorrad.

 

That's because they just wanna be loved by BMW. If they were to question BMW or advocate on behalf of anyone, they'd risk being ignored by BMW more than they already are.

 

We can't have that...

 

[Agent_Orange]

Ouch!

[Knifemaker]

There are always those who do not like your product (BMWMOA)until someone else has the time and the cash outlay to do it better I will stick with these folks and also continue voting...

[Steve_Witmer]

The MOA is not by any means perfect, but I like it well enough. The magazine has improved somewhat with recent issues.

[pbbeck]

I've been a member of the MOA for two years. Last year, I decided to join the RA and the AMA just to see what they're all about. Even though I don't have a long history with any of these organizations, I've pleased with my MOA experience. Last year's national in VT was fantastic. I only wish I could go to this year's.

 

The MOA magazine clearly sits head-and-shoulders above the other two clubs. The AMA rag does not address what I feel is the BMW niche. It addresses the LCD crowd (lowest common denominator). OTL is just strange - it seems like it's written for an audience of about four people - although the tech articles are outstanding. ON covers a broad range of topics of interest to the touring rider, and in my opinion does the best job of capturing everything that makes BMW riders BMW riders.

 

Plus, the Anonymous book stays in my left saddlebag wherever I go. I only wish they made an Anonymous "card" to tuck under the seat of my MV!

 

I'll renew with the MOA when the time comes. The others I won't.

[Mike]

"If I have any criticism of the MOA, it's in the fact that they don't seem to do anything in terms of owner advocacy or pressing BMW to improve its offerings or customer service. On the contrary, they seem to position themselves as more of a marketing adjunct to BMW Motorrad. "

 

Compared to HOG, MOA is a consumer advocacy machine!!!

 

Yeah, when I was writing that I definitely thought of HOG. But if I'm not mistaken, HOG was pretty much established by Harley-Davidson and seems to be largely underwritten by the company. Smart business, but not necessarily an organization that always operates in the individual owner's best interests.

 

Anyway, I'm not suggesting that BMWMOA needs to hire Ralph Nader as its next executive director, only that they seem to be unwilling to seriously address the significant issues that come up from time to time--things like problems with surging, brake systems, etc. I'm not calling for exposes trashing the company, but it would be good to see an occasional article that really delves into some of these issues objectively, trying to determine if there really is a problem and, if so, how it could be addressed by BMW and/or individual owners.

 

A recent article, involving an interview of BMW Motorrad's management, really illustrated it well. The one thing about BMW that causes me some real concern is the shrinkage of the dealer network. Yet, given the opportunity to press BMW and make them justify the decisions that have led to this situation, the folks at the MOA tossed them a couple of softballs and left some obviously bogus answers totally unchallenged (Geez, at least a sidebar looking at it a little more objectively, would have been helpful).

 

Having said that, I remain a member of MOA. While it's not quite the club I would like it to be, they do a good enough job to convince me to cough up my dues every year.

[Aluminum_Butt]

I don't have any trouble writing my yearly check. I enjoy the magazine - and though I liked it under Sandy, I think it's slightly improved today. There's usually a handful of articles I enjoy reading. I like seeing the BMW-centric classifieds and vendor ads.

 

I've never needed to use the anonymous book, but I certainly don't leave on a long trip without it.

 

But, as someone pointed out above, I wish they'd get a proofreader. There's 10+ typos and misspellings in a given issue, and that's kind of annoying. It detracts from what is otherwise a very professional magazine.

[Jim VonBaden]

If I have any criticism of the MOA, it's in the fact that they don't seem to do anything in terms of owner advocacy or pressing BMW to improve its offerings or customer service. On the contrary, they seem to position themselves as more of a marketing adjunct to BMW Motorrad. Obviously brand enthusiasm is a huge part of the organization, but they don't seem to do much for their members in the sense of working for the owner/members when BMW says or does something boneheaded.

 

As Whip would say, they all drank the Kool-Aide.

 

I drink the Kool-Aide and it's great.

 

Leaving tomorrow for the rally in West Bend.

 

If you read the articles of incorporation of the MOA, you will find out that it is not their stated purpose to be an advocate for owners with BMW.

 

Many folks think it should be their role but it would require, IMO, a change to the articles of incorporation.

 

ON content way up under Vince and Mandy. Full color. I would say overall it is an improvement compared to the last three issues produced by the previous editor, which were the only ones I read prior to the change.

 

MOA recognizes the changes blowing thru the BMW world. Look at the numerous new offerings already on the dealers floor and then look at the bikes under development. It's not your father's BMW any more. It appears that BMW is interested in growing a business and is looking for different and additional customers beyond the Boxer fans.

 

These new customers are the future of MOA. Organizations either grow or die. Some take 20+ years to die, but die none-the-less. I think the Board of Directors is trying to position MOA to attract younger members since the average age of current members is over 50. While the average age of BMWST members is most likely less than that, we are not average BMW owners.

 

Time will tell if this is a brilliant strategic move or something else.

 

YMWV

 

Obviously I drink the Kool Aid!

 

I like both organizations for what they do. The RA and the MOA represent all sides, and I am fine with that!

 

Jim

[pbharvey]

I still like the magazine, except that it's full of typos, misspellings and grammatical errors, which almost never occurred when Sandy was editor. Not a serious problem, but annoying and unnecessary.

 

The only thing worse than the typos, is the tendency to print a beautiful travel-type picture in black and white and then print a "boring" picture in full color. I don't get it.

[Jon_M]

I still like the magazine, except that it's full of typos, misspellings and grammatical errors, which almost never occurred when Sandy was editor. Not a serious problem, but annoying and unnecessary.

I find those technical lapses annoying, too. It's an expensive publication and the MOA is not poor. A little more attention to copy editing would be money well spent. I don't agree that this is new since Sandy left. It's always been a problem.

 

Another problem is that new product announcements are often just ads, obviously written by the vendors. I don't mind ads but they should not appear in stealth mode. That's a disservice, in my view, and it's confusing to have them alongside genuine product reviews.

 

Some issues are better than others, but on the whole it's still a pretty good club magazine.

[KMG_365]

I have REALLY noticed a drop off in editing quality under Vince. It may have also been a problem under the previous editor, but it never stood out to me previously (we joined up in 2002). Leslie and I are pretty sensitive to that sort of thing having to read the San Diego Union Tribune (for the blind), which is our horribly edited local "mullet wrapper".

Anyway, I'm not suggesting that BMWMOA needs to hire Ralph Nader as its next executive director, only that they seem to be unwilling to seriously address the significant issues that come up from time to time--things like problems with surging, brake systems, etc. I'm not calling for exposes trashing the company, but it would be good to see an occasional article that really delves into some of these issues objectively, trying to determine if there really is a problem and, if so, how it could be addressed by BMW and/or individual owners.

Just when I'm sure I'm not going to renew my membership I read a pretty interesting article and have second thoughts. For instance, my July issue just came today and I read the very well researched and thought out article by Paul Glaves on Final Drive bearing failures. Addressing Mike's point above it was clear that Paul was hamstrung by the total lack of public response or assistance from BMW Motorrad (or BMWNA, which gets its marching orders from the former) to explain the problems/issues. It's not to be expected, I suppose as any admission of a flaw or "issue" will bring out hoards of BMW owners flocking to their few remaining dealers clamoring for warranty repair work.

 

I really enjoy Paul's Oil-Head tech articles. I really appreciated Matthew Parkhouse's column "Keep 'em Flying" as well, even though I didn't own an airhead. But they only seemed to make me more and more glad I didn't. I guess now that I'm a "hold-out" owner of the previous generations' motorcycle technology, I'll find more and more value in the "old stuff" as the years pass. It seems that there won't be much to say for owners of the newer tech stuff other than: "Take it to your "nearest" [sic] dealer and have them plug it into their $70,000 computer and let it tell you what's wrong with it. Then put your gold credit card on the counter and grab your ankles. Oh, and BYOK-Y."

 

 

There was also an article stating they were going to offer Accident Scene Management Inc. courses at the MOA Rally (a subject near and dear to my heart, obviously ).

 

 

A recent article, involving an interview of BMW Motorrad's management, really illustrated it well. The one thing about BMW that causes me some real concern is the shrinkage of the dealer network. Yet, given the opportunity to press BMW and make them justify the decisions that have led to this situation, the folks at the MOA tossed them a couple of softballs and left some obviously bogus answers totally unchallenged (Geez, at least a sidebar looking at it a little more objectively, would have been helpful).

This is really a heart-breaker for me. But it's unlikely that a US based "club" is going to have a lot of influence on a foreign based manufacturer worried about cultivating their "boutique image" and parading their "cutting edge technology" to justify their high prices.

[BruceWA]

Have enjoyed BMW ownership for about 12 years now. Have also been a BMWMOAer since buying my first BMW. IMO it is an average rag, nothing exceptional about it. To me the biggest loss is that David Hough no longer contributes his articles. Miss Sandy and her personality and sense of humor.

 

Let's remember this is a "club" mag and as such no one is getting rich off the articles they write or submit.

 

BMW riders are a diverse group of strong individuals, no one is going to please them (us) all!

[moshe_levy]

Some have criticized the ON interview with corporate at NA for being softball. Having written for ON, Motorcycle Consumer News, and American Iron to name a few, I can tell you that it was not, relatively speaking.

 

There is a delicate balance between softball questions that are basically free PR and hardball questions which ensure that the interviewee will never, ever cooperate with you again. It's up to the reader to "read between the lines" per se.

 

When the obvious problem of dealer shrinkage comes up and the best corporate can use as a defense is a few high marks on some obscure surveys, the interviewer doesn't have to beat the horse any further. Any intelligent person can see what the answer *really* was, and can guess as to what would have happened if the issue was pressed further.

 

Judging from the level of discourse I've enjoyed here since joining, I would say 99% of us are adept enough to not require being clubbed over the head with the story for the sake of "hard hitting news" - from a marque fan club magazine, no less...

 

-MKL

[UberXY]

When the obvious problem of dealer shrinkage comes up and the best corporate can use as a defense is a few high marks on some obscure surveys, the interviewer doesn't have to beat the horse any further. Any intelligent person can see what the answer *really* was, and can guess as to what would have happened if the issue was pressed further.

 

 

Exactly.

[tom collins]

in regard to the HOG/MOA posts. HOG does not have to advocate for what riders want because the HD management is on the ground at rallies all over the country asking them what the want and then giving it to them. you see willie g's mug everywhere. i wonder when the last time the bmw brass from germany attended an event in the largest buying country in the world (here) and then actually asked how we could improve the machines for you?

 

Tom Collins

[hopz]

I am not (yet) a MOA member, but I am a HOG member and have some information on HOG that may add to the discussion.

 

First, HOG is owned by H-D. That means both the national and the local chapters are directly under the Harley ownership. How they operate and advocate are clearly for the benefit of the Motorcompany. This is not hidden and is known by all.

 

I personally was on-hand when the local HOG chapter, for which I was the Road Captain, was "taken back" by the local dealer. Every dealer has (the opportunity) to sponsor a local chapter. The chapter I was at got to feeling a little "independent" and the dealer/sponsor had to re-gain control. Result was no more election of officers, and no more democratic operation. He appointed, and still does, all the officers, and approves/disapproves all events, publications and etc.

 

New guys do not know the difference. Old guys feel a little depressed.

 

As for BMW...I was a very active BMWCCA (car club) for years and saw the evolution/stagnation of their fine magazine the Rondel.

 

I was there when the BMW company made us change from BMWCCA to BMW-CCA. To signify that the Car Club America was not a BMW corporate organization.

 

The best thing about The Rondel was always the Technical Colums... but that was before the internet was popular. That function has now been displaced by the many Forums that can be accessed.

 

MOA faces the same "market" forces. That is to say that its primary function has now been replaced by forums such as this one, all except for the venue for advertisers.

[Mike]

MOA faces the same "market" forces. That is to say that its primary function has now been replaced by forums such as this one, all except for the venue for advertisers.

 

I'm not sure that I'd go as far as you suggest in concluding that the MOA no longer fulfills its primary function, but you do make an excellent point that forums such as ours provide a means to vent our frustrations, a source for information about problems that BMW or the MOA may not want to address publicly, and a conduit for feedback to BMW.

 

One of the things I'm very proud of about BMWST.com is that we have maintained, thanks to our members, a positive but balanced approach to the brand which brings us together here. We generally love our BMWs, but we also can talk objectively, albeit with a bit of passion, about the the problems we encounter with our machines, our dealers, and BMW itself. We know BMW monitors this website, so the opinions and experiences voiced here can have a beneficial effect: this discussion board significantly influences consumer choices (as do other BMW-related forums), and BMW--if they're smart--realizes that.

 

I understand, as Moshe pointed out, that there's sometimes a delicate balance between getting useful information in an interview and creating a hostile relationship that causes a source to dry up. But, i really do think that an occasional BMW ON article that really delved into technical or marketing issues could greatly benefit the members of the MOA.

 

Having said all that, I reiterate that I continue to remain an MOA member. I'd also note that, while I spend my on-line time here instead of on the MOA Forum, that the MOA is continuing to make strides in improving its web content and making available a resource (the Forum) for members to openly discuss issues about BMW's product.

[UberXY]

I've been a member of MOA for 21 years, and I will be blunt - it's just for the magazine.

 

Up until the web really got going around 1995, if you were looking for a BMW specific vendor from which to buy something your dealer did not carry, your only source of information was ON. Yes, the IBMWR mailing list pre-dated the web by a few years, but the signal to noise ratio there was about 1%.

 

So why do I still read it since the web replaced it's major value to me? Well once in awhile I will come across an ad in MOA for something I haven't heard of and then will go look at their website. I do read a few of the articles, mainly if involves some serious adventure touring, but that's about it. Many of the travel stories are very tame and uninteresting.

 

As for what goes on at BMWMOA HQ, and their relationship with BMWNA, I could not care less.

[tallman]

3 issues.

First, the organization, the BMWMOA has more members, is making more money, than they did before. This has nothing to do with the state of the magazine. It is more a reflection of BMW adding new riders to the marque.

Second, the magazine, it is phull off grammaritcal uns speling airors, something that has changed under the new Editor(s).

Third, the on-line arena (which was touted as a strength of the new Editor and the direction sought by the Board of the BMWMOA), has fallen short of my expectations (don't know about theirs ).

Overall, I enjoy the magazine, try to overlook the poor proofing, and look forward to it.

The Anonymous book is a great asset and a valuable tool when needed.

I don't care about the politics, but I do care about the marque.

[peterbulgar]

I find those technical lapses annoying, too. It's an expensive publication and the MOA is not poor.

I don't think that it's an expensive publication considering that the magazine is only part of the club benefits. The magazine business is very competitive and the vast majority of the ads in BMWON are specific to a brand that has only 5% of its market. BMWON has improved a lot in the last 15 years. It's still a club publication and not a slick commercial magazine, but there's a lot of useful content. I like OTL also; not as useful as BMWON, but idiosyncratic and fun to read.

 

Check out the Letters column in the latest issue of Rider: Two readers point out many factual errors in stories from previous issues. Also, in the latest issue I noticed one factual error myself. Typos are annoying, but errors in fact are worse.

Peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA

[RatSnake]

I just picked up my newly arrived ON, and read a dozen paragraphs at random. I only came across 1 grammar failure, the use of then rather than than.

 

I think things are looking up.

[Sidmariner]

I don't get much out of the magazine, other than the occasional link to a new retailer. There are a great many more interesting sources of real-time information available, including this site. I can read ride tales and other fluff anywhere.

 

I'd like to think that my membership in the BMWOA is supporting me in an advocacy role. It has leverage as an organized lobby group which should be applied to improve the support of the BMW company for its customers and retailers. It should also speak on our behalf to government to improve conditions for riders, such as reducing insurance rates and modifying licencing or training issues.

 

In British Columbia, the BC Coalition of Motorcyclists tries hard to improve conditions for riders. I would like to see an international organization like BMWOA add their voice to advancing our causes.

 

Now, if they did those things and reported their actions and results in a monthly magazine, I'd be happy to read the fluff too.

[UberXY]

As as aside, great contemporary motorcycle travel reading:

 

Horizons Unlimited

[Jon_M]

I don't think that it's an expensive publication considering that the magazine is only part of the club benefits.

I guess what I meant was that it must cost a lot to crank it out (even if the content is most often from volunteers) and the dues-paying membership is quite large. If Vince is not sufficiently alert to fractured prose and inventive spelling, paying an english major to clean it up couldn't possibly be a financial burden.

[Redbrick]

I'm not as interested in the MOA monthly publication as I was before the "Big Change".....Sandy and her crew gave it a personal, connected feeling and more articles interested me....I don't save them them anymore (like National Geographics? ) and my perception is that it is much more commercial and running articles that really are advertisements for BMW...The clothing piece a couple of months ago...

I will keep my membership for the interest that is left in the publication and for the great anonymous book...

Still a good thing, just not as good as it used to be....

 

All the above with the disclaimer; IMHO...

 

Phil........Redbrick

[KMG_365]

Sandy and her crew gave it a personal, connected feeling and more articles interested me [ . . . ].

 

[ . . . ] my perception is that it is much more commercial and running articles that really are advertisements for BMW... The clothing piece a couple of months ago...

Agreed, and this reads like good fodder for a juicy "conspiracy theory"!

 

"BMW Motorrad and BMWNA were secretly behind the ouster of Sandy and her rebel supporters in an effort to wrest control of the previously independent BMWMOA and it's mouthpiece for anti-BMW propaganda: 'The Owners' News'!"

 

 

 

Wow, I can't wait for the "Google-Bots" to find this thread as they crawl our site! Like we weren't in trouble for the whole organized "Tech Daze" thing enough as it was! I'll be expecting a "friendly visit" from Gunther und Helmut any day now!

[Tasker]

"BMW Motorrad and BMWNA were secretly behind the ouster of Sandy and her rebel supporters in an effort to wrest control of the previously independent BMWMOA and it's mouthpiece for anti-BMW propaganda: 'The Owners' News'!"

 

I knew it!