Boycott Denver

[gasser]

David

 

Thank you. I think Rube Goldberg would have had a field day with this, don't you?

[DavidEBSmith]

This noise thing is about one thing--Harleys and straight pipes.

 

Actually, people around here complain just as much about the sport bikes with hollow cans (and the police go after them as much, if not more, than the Harleys). They get lumped in with the straight-pipe Harleys and my quiet Beemer as "those d*mn loud motorcycles".

[R4ND0M_AX3]

I don't have an answer but here are some thoughts.

 

It used to be in California that there was a dB limit on car exhausts (still is). Kids started modding and cops started citing based on opinion. Tickets were challenged so cops started using dB meters. Even exhausts that claimed to be below the limit were cited. Those tickest were challeneged. Now if it sounds like it might be too loud you get a ticket. After you have a ticket you are allowed to go to a test facility to have a controlled test. If your exhaust passes you get to carry around a certification from the state that you are good. This cert describes what you have etc.. Next time you get pulled over you produce the cert and the cop is supposed to not cite you.

 

 

I might be OK with something like that for bikes. I don't like that you have to get pulled over before you are allowed to get a certification. But at least there is a path to become legal with something aftermarket. I don't like the idea a couple of posts earlier about only having 4 days to get this done though. Might make a road trip through somewhere a pain.

 

I also don't like the idea parked bikes getting cited for not having the EPA paragragh stamp.

 

We should shut down all of the airports too. Redrocks is a noisy place during events. shut it down. Superbowl is pretty noisy... 21 gun salute at a military funeral....

 

 

where do we stop?

[blkvelvt]

If I was going to discriminate against anyone it would be against the businesses that cater to the loud pipe crowd and the loud pipe crowd itself.

Why? It isn't the businesses that are breaking the law, it's the bike owners.

 

That's like saying "It's not the drug dealer, it's the user. What is the benifit of drug use or loud pipes. Nothing really....

[iclick]

I've ridden Harleys for some time and agree with the premise of this thread that bikes with straight pipes are obnoxious and the law-enforcement establishment should do more to control excessive noise produced by them. One respondent here said about the decision to install louder pipes, "It's all about ' NOTICE ME! NOTICE ME!! NOTICE ME!!!'" (caps as originally written), but I disagree with this as a categorical statement. It's about "Notice me!" with some people, but I like the mellow tone of a V-twin that is moderately DB-enhanced. I don't disturb the peace and I dare say most people would not find my ride obnoxious. There is a threshold where pleasing tone transcends to cacaphony. I am not familiar with the Denver ordinance, but I would assume they are trying to control excessive noise where people with excessively loud pipes violate the public's right to peace and quiet. But if they want to clamp down on my bike with aftermarket mufflers and small baffles while I lumber through the city at 10% throttle, I would be against it. If they do that they will get a negative response from many two-wheel tourists. If Denver was overdoing their zeal to quell loud pipes, I would've read about it one of the HD forums, but I haven't.

 

I would like to reiterate what's already been said that metric cruisers are as prone to this problem as HD's, as well as many sport bikes. It's not a problem located solely with one brand.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

but I like the mellow tone of a V-twin that is moderately DB-enhanced. I don't disturb the peace and I dare say most people would not find my ride obnoxious.

 

Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. I don't happen to like the sound of a V-twin, moderately enhanced or stock for that matter. I do appreciate the sound/feel of a top fuel Harley at full song but that is at a racing venue and I expect it. Don't need it while I'm sitting down to an expensive meal at a nice outdoor restaurant. I'll add the metric cruiser set as well as they are just imitating the originals just as their bikes do. There are sport bikes around that are nearly as loud as the cruisers but not too many in my area and they tend to not be so obsessed with revving their bikes at stop lights and cranking the throttle open at every opportunity. Might be cause their bikes are capable of perceivable acceleration.

[Ralph]

When a city targets a group of people, like bikers, they deserve whatever they get in return. If you've been to Denver lately, you know they ought to target their illegal alien population . . .

 

I agree. They definitely should not target any group . . . unless it's a group that we want them to target.

 

But, as much as I dislike the idea of an ordinance that singles out motorcyclists, this makes a lot of sense to me. The noise generated by dim-witted motorcyclists is genuinely obnoxious. In the town where I live, a couple of bars generate a lot of biker business. When the maroons with straight pipes arrive on the scene, it's not just mildly annoying. The noise level is high enough that it's impossible to carry on a conversation.

 

Is the Denver approach the optimal solution? Probably not. But, I completely understand why they've adopted this ordinance and applaud the notion of trying to do something about the problem.

 

Here's a more productive idea: boycott the manufacturers of these products. They're the threat to motorcycling.

 

I have to agree with Mike on this one. Be careful, you may be the next in line to be outlawed. Didn't I read that there is a town in Ca. that bikes are not allowed?

[mefly2]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... that's one of the reasons I've had BMW bikes & cars for years ... the quiet of it all ...

[SUCATI]

One day - when we're all dead and gone - there won't be any loud anything. It'll all be electric cars, buses, motorcycles and boats.

 

But I can't wait that long. I'm in Denver's corner but I wish we could police ourselves more.

 

Do any of the supporters of quiet vehicles say anything to the "loud" riders we encounter? (like at Bike night!!!)

I certainly do but I'm going to get physically assaulted one day by someone that doesn't agree with my statements.

Is that what everyone is afraid of?

 

If we don't want to get legislated out of existence we must confront them where we gather, etc.

 

That's my opinion on the subject.

 

Mike

[smiller]

Do any of the supporters of quiet vehicles say anything to the "loud" riders we encounter? (like at Bike night!!!)

I certainly do but I'm going to get physically assaulted one day by someone that doesn't agree with my statements. Is that what everyone is afraid of?

Unless the person is a nutcase a physical confrontation probably wouldn't occur, but it would an unpleasant interaction nonetheless and almost certainly a complete waste of time. People don't like being told how to behave, and if someone doesn't have the innate sensitivity to understand how their actions affect others it's very unlikely that you would be able to enlighten them.

[SUCATI]

So how DO we enlighten our "brothers/sisters"?

I'm open to suggestions.

I still believe all of us together are the solution. If we're not all together on this it we will be not riding motorcycles one day I suspect.

 

Mike

[gasser]

Since my original post, I have been monitoring this online conversation on the Harley forums. There's plenty being said if you dig throught the threads. The one that made the most sense to me was a quote from the mayor of a town in Minnesota that is dealing with their own noise issues. He said if you draw attention to yourself, you'll get attention--in the form of a citation.

Arbitrary? Yep. But, this approach leaves the door open to a biker with more open pipes to cruise at a lower rpm and not wake up the dead. I can live with an ordinance that says if you want attention, we'll give it to you. This approach may lend itself to greater self-policing.

BTW, approaching an HD or any rider and criticizing his pipes is asking for trouble. Spare yourself the grief.

[steve.foote]

BTW, approaching an HD or any rider and criticizing his pipes is asking for trouble. Spare yourself the grief.

 

And, um, [cough], what kind of trouble would that be? Most of the HD riders are I see around here are accountants and computer geeks.

 

Maybe they would take you out and...audit you.

[smiller]

Maybe they would take you out and...audit you.

OK, that's funny...

[Agent_Orange]

[russell_bynum]

BTW, approaching an HD or any rider and criticizing his pipes is asking for trouble. Spare yourself the grief.

 

And, um, [cough], what kind of trouble would that be? Most of the HD riders are I see around here are accountants and computer geeks.

 

Maybe they would take you out and...audit you.

 

Hell's Dentists.

[steveknapp]

Russell, this thread is really long and just more of the same old same old. But consider that many of the bikes in question here DON'T use a cat in the exhaust and as such the EPA/emissions side might not be so tough?.

 

I think the idea of having some certification of sound and sound alone for after market pipes seems somewhat sane, and seems consistent with what I remember from the UK some years back. Sure you get knock off stickers. Or pipes that can be easily modified. But it sure is a step in the right direction.

 

 

[David]

I think the idea of having some certification of sound and sound alone for after market pipes seems somewhat sane, and seems consistent with what I remember from the UK some years back. Sure you get knock off stickers. Or pipes that can be easily modified. But it sure is a step in the right direction.

 

Even those "standard" sound measurements are gamed, though. Gearing that's too tall for normal usage is there in OEM fashion exclusively to pass sound tests, as the bike passes the meter at the prescribed speed but with the engine turning slower. Think Ducati as the worst in this category.

[steveknapp]

So? Duc's sound cool.

 

What's needed is something the cop can see and write you up for. We don't need Mitchs as cops with some elaborate EPA setup trying to get an exact measurement.

 

It seems we're all focused on the details, when something to get the low hanging fruit would probably do a ton of good.

 

I know all noise is offensive to someone, but it just seems silly to fret over details. Go after the gross polluters.

[BabyCow]

[Bud]

BTW, approaching an HD or any rider and criticizing his pipes is asking for trouble. Spare yourself the grief.

 

And, um, [cough], what kind of trouble would that be? Most of the HD riders are I see around here are accountants and computer geeks.

 

Maybe they would take you out and...audit you.

 

Hell's Dentists.

 

 

 

Don't make me come out there and give you trouble.

[velomoto]

How about a little intellectual honesty on this thread.

 

The hypocicy of the Denver community leaders on this is what really ticks me off: Just north of Denver, in Ft. Collins, is the largest custom manufacturer of HD bikes in the world--1400 units per year in addition to their factory-made bikes. Thunder Mountain ain't putting factory exhausts on these bikes. (I guarantee the BMW dealer just around the corner from Thunder Mountain doesn't sell a tenth of that.) So, the Denver community is saying, "You can buy your loud-a$$ bikes in our area--you just can't ride them here." This is bull.

Actually that's not at all what they are saying, but that is a nice spin... Denver just said they don't want loud bikes.

 

BTW Tom, the BMW dealership is near the Thunder Mountain HD Dealership. It's the Honda dealership that is near the Thunder Mountain Custom Cycles factory (about 10 miles North of the Thunder Mountain HD dealership). Thunder Mountain Custom Cycles are sold thru HD dealerships around the country - not just the Ft. Collins/Loveland Thunder Mountain HD dealership and not just the Denver HD dealerships.

 

And for all of you anal-retentive types that feel compelled to point out the mileage between Denver and Fort Collins, save your energy. The Denver community as a whole benefits from these manufactured bikes. Period.

Perhaps a few more hints on your logic and reasoning would be in order here... The bikes are built in Ft. Collins with "90% HD parts" - how does this benifit Denver??? These are fully custom bikes - getting one to meet the Denver ordanance isn't an issue, unless of course being told to have a "quiet" bike is an issue.

 

Latest reports in the media are that the LEO's will have DB (SPL) meters to measure sound levels of bikes, but no details on how the measurements will be conducted.

 

No word on any forth coming bans of bikes or other personal freedoms - just promises of tickets if one's bike is too loud.