BMW or Honda - First to Market?

[wrestleantares]

I recently read some rumors that the new LT is going to be delayed (considering cancellation).

 

Reasoning behind the decision is trade in numbers. BMW is seeing many LT's and for that matter RT's being traded in for the new GT.

 

Now the RT and GT seem a little more compatible as they are both great 1up tourers (not denigrating their 2up ability but they are certainly no LT's).

 

The LT trade-in seems a bit incongruous. The LT is a Luxury Tourer and certainly a large step up in pillion comfort over the other two models (in general - I realize that comfort is subjective). Is it because they actually see the GT as superior in touring, or is it because the LT has seen no significant updates since 1999? I think it is the latter.

 

Will Honda introduce the next Ubertourer first - after all their bike has been around a while as well. They seemingly have no need for such an introduction. They thouroughly trounce BMW's LT in slaes, and the HD riders are going to buy HD's.

 

Oh well, enough rambling.

[Tony_K]

Honda makes so many models that sell well it's no problem to produce the GoldWing. It fills a niche market and they still make money.

 

BMW it's all bottom line. Lt low on sales... where's my AXE!

[Dave McReynolds]

Is it because they actually see the GT as superior in touring

 

Recently went on about a 500 mile two-up tour of the Yosemite area with Nancy, and I can assure you that the LT is in no danger of being displaced as a two-up tourer by the GT. I got a lot of complaints about wind, this and that (that being mainly complaints about my speed, even though I rode VERY SEDATELY on purpose and allowed Harleys to pass us, etc.). One thing she liked was the grab bars to the side of the passenger seat, which older GT's didn't have. She sat on our friend's Wing, and I could tell she liked the passenger accomodations on that a lot better. So I got the idea that if I had a Wing or an LT, she might tour more. But "more" would probably mean twice a year rather than once a year, since she really doesn't like motorcycles, period. Which means that the other 100 or so times a year that I ride a motorcycle wouldn't be as much fun for me, so I can't see making that tradeoff. Which I'm sure she would agree with, since if I did go for an LT or a Wing, she might feel obligated to tour more than she really wanted, and now she doesn't feel that pressure.

[wrestleantares]

Is it because they actually see the GT as superior in touring

 

Recently went on about a 500 mile two-up tour of the Yosemite area with Nancy, and I can assure you that the LT is in no danger of being displaced as a two-up tourer by the GT. I got a lot of complaints about wind, this and that (that being mainly complaints about my speed, even though I rode VERY SEDATELY on purpose and allowed Harleys to pass us, etc.). One thing she liked was the grab bars to the side of the passenger seat, which older GT's didn't have. She sat on our friend's Wing, and I could tell she liked the passenger accomodations on that a lot better. So I got the idea that if I had a Wing or an LT, she might tour more. But "more" would probably mean twice a year rather than once a year, since she really doesn't like motorcycles, period. Which means that the other 100 or so times a year that I ride a motorcycle wouldn't be as much fun for me, so I can't see making that tradeoff. Which I'm sure she would agree with, since if I did go for an LT or a Wing, she might feel obligated to tour more than she really wanted, and now she doesn't feel that pressure.

 

My personal opinion of the GT and the RT has always been - too much and too little for the job (the job I want done).

 

They are not suitable - to me - for 2up touring. And they are too much for 1up touring.

 

I'd prefer a Sprint ST or ZZR 1200 to either of the bikes.

[tallman]

Don't bet the farm on rumors.

It doesn't matter who's first, it matters which is the better bike.

Time will tell.

[Slartidbartfast]

So I got the idea that if I had a Wing or an LT, she might tour more. But "more" would probably mean twice a year rather than once a year, since she really doesn't like motorcycles, period. Which means that the other 100 or so times a year that I ride a motorcycle wouldn't be as much fun for me, so I can't see making that tradeoff. Which I'm sure she would agree with, since if I did go for an LT or a Wing, she might feel obligated to tour more than she really wanted, and now she doesn't feel that pressure.

A masterful piece of rationalization. I take my hat off to you sir!

 

The day my ex suddenly decided she was ready to try riding on the back, it rained. We went anyway, she hated it and never asked again. Someone was looking out for me.

 

Wouldn't mind an LT for those long, boring interstate hauls but I think I would regret it on every other road.

[barncobob]

i belong to the goldwing forum too and the 08s are out already, way ahead of schedule. the rumor is that goldwing wants to clear out the new 08s and retool for a new 09 goldwing. supposed to be 2400cc and all sorts of farkles. just a rumor.

[HexHead]

is it because the LT has seen no significant updates since 1999? I think it is the latter.

 

 

Watch you talking 'bout Willis? What do you call the electro-hydraulic centerstand?

[wrestleantares]

The day my ex suddenly decided she was ready to try riding on the back, it rained. We went anyway, she hated it and never asked again. Someone was looking out for me.

 

Wouldn't mind an LT for those long, boring interstate hauls but I think I would regret it on every other road.

 

Don't know what you are missing. Riding long trips or short local jaunts in the mountains with my wife is a great pleasure. Sure I back down my riding a bit and enjoy the scenery more, but not much. She loves riding with me and the nights are much better with her than sitting with some riding buddies drinking beer and shooting the breeze.

 

Also judge not an LT until you've ridden it - hard. An LT ridden hard in the twisties is a great joy. No, it is no sportbike, but it will certainly surprise someone that thinks they are taking out a luxury barge. Trunk off and a cut down windshield make it a great mountain road bike. Just because the speeds and handling may not equal a great riders output on a 400 pound sportbike does not mean the machine is any slouch.

 

I take mine on multiple circuits of what is affectionally known as the 181 speedway on many weekends. It is always a blast.

[redryder]

So I got the idea that if I had a Wing or an LT, she might tour more. But "more" would probably mean twice a year rather than once a year, since she really doesn't like motorcycles, period. Which means that the other 100 or so times a year that I ride a motorcycle wouldn't be as much fun for me, so I can't see making that tradeoff. Which I'm sure she would agree with, since if I did go for an LT or a Wing, she might feel obligated to tour more than she really wanted, and now she doesn't feel that pressure.

A masterful piece of rationalization. I take my hat off to you sir!

 

The day my ex suddenly decided she was ready to try riding on the back, it rained. We went anyway, she hated it and never asked again. Someone was looking out for me.

 

Wouldn't mind an LT for those long, boring interstate hauls but I think I would regret it on every other road.

 

I thought that too...until. 4 months ago while at the dealer, my wife for some reason saw an LT on the floor and said "Gee, if you had one of these, I'd probably ride with you." I've had an RT for a while, but she just didn't like the pillion. So, I kept the RT and bought a good used LT. For the last three months, we've ridden quite a bit. She really likes riding the LT. She now asks if we can go for rides and even likes running errands on it.

 

To help get acquinted with it, I took it solo up to Deal's Gap a couple of different times. It really is surprising what it is capable of. I can drag the pegs and have a good scrape on each of the fairing lowers. It's no RT, but it isn't what you would expect either. I dogged a guy in a Miata most of the way down the Tennessee side. The Miata couldn't shake me and eventually gave up.

 

The RT is keenly superior at carving up the twisty road. In fact, even for long haul solo riding I always take the RT. But for two up riding, the LT is the way to go for the wife and I, anyway.

 

Can it be improved? Sure. But I can tell you that the new GT or RT can't beat it for the riding my wife and I do. That is not to disparage the new GT/RT; I sure would love to have either one, but it would be a solo bike for sure.

[Bill Neander]

I heard that with all the rumors about an 1850 six from BMW that sales of the K1200LT were lagging. There was even a rumor that BMW had enough K1200LTs already built to carry them through the 2008 model year. As good as the new K1200GT is; is there really any reason to revamp the K1200LT? My K1200LT gets 47 mpg and the Honda GL1800 is good for 37mpg. A story in Motorcycle Consumer News had the K1200LT comparing favorably with the Honda GL1800. If it works, why change it?

[wrestleantares]

I heard that with all the rumors about an 1850 six from BMW that sales of the K1200LT were lagging. There was even a rumor that BMW had enough K1200LTs already built to carry them through the 2008 model year. As good as the new K1200GT is; is there really any reason to revamp the K1200LT? My K1200LT gets 47 mpg and the Honda GL1800 is good for 37mpg. A story in Motorcycle Consumer News had the K1200LT comparing favorably with the Honda GL1800. If it works, why change it?

 

Why ever make a new model if that's the case? Because you can make it better. Now, whether their idea of better matches mine is another question.

[gasser]

I haven't beren on the K bike forum much. I'm new to BMW, lasat year bought my first RT. Been on HD's forever and Hondas before that. How reliable is the K12LT? I don't know anything about the K engine. The boxer seems really basic to me--a good thing. A friend of mine has one and had problems at 20k. I've often thought about my next road bike being an LT vs an FLH. I'm riding my current dresser to 100k.

And by the way, why does Honda need a 2400cc machine?

[tallman]

I haven't beren on the K bike forum much. I'm new to BMW, lasat year bought my first RT. Been on HD's forever and Hondas before that. How reliable is the K12LT? I don't know anything about the K engine. The boxer seems really basic to me--a good thing. A friend of mine has one and had problems at 20k. I've often thought about my next road bike being an LT vs an FLH. I'm riding my current dresser to 100k.

And by the way, why does Honda need a 2400cc machine?

Just this week I've seen a K 100 w/over 300,00 miles on it.

Two K 75's, each with over 250,000 miles, a 6 year old LT w/85,000 miles, and a Goldwing w/110,000 miles.

Makes the 54,000 on my GT seem rather weak.

The brick regularly goes over 250,000 when treated properly.

I'd say the old K works pretty well.

Any reliability issues with those bikes were not usually with the flying brick itself.

[AZKomet]

Wow!! Another rumor!!!! Hmmmmmm.... I heard that a diesel Lt was coming out that would pull a semi-trailer fully loaded all the while one was watching TV on the new instrument panel!! AMAZING...I can't wait