looking for some advice: two issues with my 02 1150rt

[SimpleRider]

I just purchased an 02 r1150rt w/ just over 5,500 miles. However, two issues that are not pleasing. Looking for advice on how others approached solutions.

1. surging/lugging. Is this curable? most noticable around 30 to 40 mph

2. stock seat not all that comfortable. Sadly I can tolerate my 81 gl500 stock seat longer.

thanks in advance for your comments.

[OlGeezer]

I just purchased an 02 r1150rt w/ just over 5,500 miles. However, two issues that are not pleasing. Looking for advice on how others approached solutions.

1. surging/lugging. Is this curable? most noticable around 30 to 40 mph

2. stock seat not all that comfortable. Sadly I can tolerate my 81 gl500 stock seat longer.

thanks in advance for your comments.

 

1a. Perform a careful tune (setting valves and sync'ing the TBs particularly).

1b. Make sure your TPS voltage is correct.

1c. Try different spark plugs (i.e., Autolites}

1d. Keep her above 4,000 RPM (this is my favorite one)

 

2. R O C K Y M E Y E R

 

Next.

 

)

 

P.S. - Mine's at 97.5k miles

[steve.foote]

1b. Make sure your TPS voltage is correct.

 

Bill, the 1150 TPS is self learning. Its position is factory set and doesn't need to be adjusted.

 

Your other suggestions were spot on. Especially the "revs above 4000."

[KMG_365]

I just purchased an 02 r1150rt w/ just over 5,500 miles. However, two issues that are not pleasing. Looking for advice on how others approached solutions.

1. surging/lugging. Is this curable? most noticable around 30 to 40 mph

2. stock seat not all that comfortable. Sadly I can tolerate my 81 gl500 stock seat longer.

thanks in advance for your comments.

Hmmmmm, a 2002 in Maine with only 5500 miles on it??

 

1a. Pull the LPB (aka the "Little Pink Bastard"--search for it)

1b. top up with good premium gas and add a bottle of Techron, then do an Italian tune-up.

1c. change the oil and filter (hot--the Techron kills the oil), carefully adjust the valves (cold), reset Motronic (#5 fuse--search for that one too--this sets TPS voltage automatically), perform TB synch with home-made manometer (you got it . . . search! )

1d. take out the odd plugs that the previous owner put in to try to cure the surging and put the NGK's back in.

1e. Ride the snot out of it and don't lug it at low RPM's anymore! It's a boxer, not an inline four.

 

2. Russell Day-Long Saddles!

 

3. Keep an eye out for SAMSAR's next NE Tech Daze and do whatever you need to do to get there!

[Stan Walker]

In addition there is:

 

1d) Under the seat in the fuse box is a "coding plug" that selects which of several available engine maps will be used by the Motronic FI system. It's a plug in module and sometimes changing the stock one for a different one can smooth out the engine surge. I would try the other items first then come back to the board and ask about this option.

 

1e) There are several after market fuel injection chips that can help. Not all that cheap (under $500 I think). There is also an after market add on device that costs less (around $300 or so).

 

1f) Getting the bike "dual plugged" seems to be another possible answer. Expensive I hear ($600 or so if you do the tear down and install).

 

Still, most of the RT's will get better with a quality tune-up including a valve adjust and throttle body sync. Best to do it yourself (it's pretty easy and no one cares more about how your bike runs than you do).

 

These funny oilheads tend to get smoother with more miles. Still, it could be a long wait.

 

I can't help much with the seat, I'm still riding on the stock seat off of my '96 RT. I must have some German blood in my butt .

 

Stan

[chrisz]

If all else fails, just pony up for a Techlusion module (10 minute plug and play for me) for about $200 new or used unit for about $130. It worked for me, after everything else I tried, including pulling the CCP and jumping the various fuel maps.

 

As for the seat, there is a Comfort seat from BMW, once in a while it comes up for sale used, keep an eye out for it. Its a bit wider/flatter and its good for 8 hour rides (for me at least).

[kiwiaudio]

Don't think of the techlusion as a fail safe catchall though. Mine still surges with it !

[OlGeezer]

 

Bill, the 1150 TPS is self learning. Its position is factory set and doesn't need to be adjusted.

 

 

Kewl!

[T__]

I just purchased an 02 r1150rt w/ just over 5,500 miles. However, two issues that are not pleasing. Looking for advice on how others approached solutions.

1. surging/lugging. Is this curable? most noticable around 30 to 40 mph

2. stock seat not all that comfortable. Sadly I can tolerate my 81 gl500 stock seat longer.

thanks in advance for your comments.

 

SimpleRider, sure your surging is curable.. Not easily or cheaply though unless you just want to cure the surge but lose engine response in other RPM ranges..

 

Problem is: the surge occurs while under oxygen sensor (lambda sensor) feed back control.. Those big pistons on that antique design engine just can’t operate surge free while controlled to the lean 14.7 to 1 fuel air mixture required to maintain catalytic converter desired operation.. What that basically means is anything you do that still allows the O2 sensor to be in control at the surging RPM will ultimately make little difference as the O2 will just drive the engine fuel control computer to lean it right back out again to the crossover value of the lambda sensor (basically 14.7/1 or thereabouts)..

 

The easy way to remove most if not all of the surge is to pull the cat coding plug (mentioned in the post above) that in most cases forces the fuel control computer into an open loop map (non O2 sensor feed back control).. On the 1100 bikes that open loop map was fairly decent but on the later 1150 bikes that open loop map was pretty poor with a lot of higher RPM spark removed & some holes in the fueling algorithm (probably so it wasn’t defeated on purpose by the selling dealers)..

 

I have worked on surging problems on 6 -1150RT’s with verbal input on probably half a dozen more & so far the only thing that has worked to my satisfaction to remove the low to mid RPM 1150 engine surge without effecting other engine operating parameters has been adding an aftermarket fuel controller (mainly the Techlusion unit).. There are people that tell us that the Autolite 3922 or 3923 spark plug will help the surging but so far I haven’t seen that as fact on any of the 1150’s I have worked with.. Possibly opening up the electrode gap slightly will help as that usually improves idle & low RPM lean cylinder ignition but I have tried that & so far not enough improvement to recommend it.. Adjusting the valves to PERFECT adjustment has been touted as helping but I haven’t shown that to have any effect on my personal bike or any of the others I have worked with.. Common sense also tells us that slight valve adjustment variations on a solid lifter cam set up should have little to no effect as the cam take up ramps are long & slow with the major valve lift gain coming just as the lifter leaves the take up ramp so a few thousandths one way or the other on valve adjustment would make almost no difference in crankshaft position at initial/final valve EFFECTIVE opening/closing height.. There have been reports of a very anal throttle body sync helping the sure problem.. That is about the only thing in my mind that makes engineering sense but so far I haven’t able to see much difference as long as the TBI balance isn’t grossly out of whack at the surge RPM throttle opening.. Just simply disconnecting the O2 sensor has so far showed me the greatest gain on the 1150 as that forces open loop operation (no O2 control) but appears (no test data gathered here though) to at least leave a fairly decent spark map in place (at least it doesn’t feel like the upper RPM range becomes as lazy as when pulling the CCP plug).. Some people have reported that jumpering to a different CCP configuration has helped the surging but I have a custom CCP that I have fabricated that has switches installed on it’s case so I can switch between A,B, C, D, NONE- then do a quick computer reset all in the same riding session & so far nothing has improved enough to impress me except the NONE setting but that flattens out the top end..

 

 

 

I guess bottom line here is: if you don’t defeat the O2 sensor control while operating in the engine surge RPM range there is just no way to make it run richer that the O2 won’t just overwrite you efforts & drop the mixture right back to 14.7/1.. Now there are many ways to defeat O2 control like __(pulling the CCP plug), problem is that also forces an inferior spark map that make the upper RPM band lazy,,, disconnecting the O2 sensor itself, that seems to be the least intrusive but still probably changes the spark map somewhat (feels better than removing the CCP though)…

 

 

OK now for the fix (I mean repair as BMW already fixed it up good).. The Techlusion seems to be the final answer at this time.. There are other units that operate in a similar manner that probably work just as good but the Techlusion seems to be the easiest to install, set up & tune without using a laptop or keeping a lot of data as you ride..

 

So far the Techlusion has cured the surge on all the 1150’s I have installed it on.. If you are only worried about getting rid of the surge that Techlusion will do it right quick but you will pay a penalty in fuel economy.. If you are willing to work with it & tweak it in a little as you ride you can get most if not all of the fuel economy back & get a better operating bike in the process.. One of the good (I think excellent) points on the newer Techlusion units is it’s ability to intercept the factory O2 input going into the fuleing computer then substitute it’s own modified data stream to make the computer think it is still controlling to the factoryO2 sensor feedback.. That allows the Techlusion to add fuel where needed but NOT have the fueling computer pull that added fuel right back out.. (very simple but effective device)..

 

 

As a cheap try on your seating issue (most of us have had the same complaint) .. Try a set of seat jacks (I just made my own) that raises the front of the seat up.. Most just go up ¼” or 3/8” but I went up a full ½” on my 1150RT & was fairly happy with the results.. Have since installed an aftermarket seat but the ½” seat jacks gave me quite a notable improvement as that stopped the constant sliding forward while riding.. If you want to make your own just give me a PM & I can send some pictures of the ones I made (basically plastic strips with holes in them).. You will then need longer seat bracket attaching screws..

 

Twisty

[Sidmariner]

Another great post Twisty.

 

Concur with comments on Techlusion although mine has me confused. There are mornings when I ride to work without any noticeable surging and the very next day it's back in force, bucking and surging like crazy. I've gotten to the point where I'm thinking even weather conditions might affect the performance. Maybe it's my imagination, but my bike runs better on cold damp mornings than on sunny dry ones.

 

I've been tracking fuel consumption and have improved it from 165 miles to the tank to an even 200. I am hoping it will continue to improve.

 

WRT the seat. I picked up a couple of cheap nylon cutting boards from the local dollar store. I cut them up for all kinds of purposes, but they made excellent wedges for under the front of the seat.

[T__]

Another great post Twisty.

 

Concur with comments on Techlusion although mine has me confused. There are mornings when I ride to work without any noticeable surging and the very next day it's back in force, bucking and surging like crazy. I've gotten to the point where I'm thinking even weather conditions might affect the performance. Maybe it's my imagination, but my bike runs better on cold damp mornings than on sunny dry ones.

 

I've been tracking fuel consumption and have improved it from 165 miles to the tank to an even 200. I am hoping it will continue to improve.

 

WRT the seat. I picked up a couple of cheap nylon cutting boards from the local dollar store. I cut them up for all kinds of purposes, but they made excellent wedges for under the front of the seat.

 

Sidmariner, the surging should be controllable if the Techlusuion is set correctly but the bucking says it might be something else..

 

Go back over everything & make sure you don’t have a cracked spark plug, or problem with your vapor canister purging..

 

Make sure you have a green light (if not lower the cruise pot setting a little until you get a steady green light).. Too high of a cruise setting will shut the unit off.

 

You must have the original CCP in place for the Techlusion to work properly (1032 unit)..

 

The green pot is very sensitive so a slight adjustment goes a long way on that one (best to set that one with a digital voltmeter).. Maybe add .1 volts to see if that will mellow out your surging.. The red won’t effect your surge one way or the other & the yellow is only for quickly changing throttle positions so that shouldn’t effect the surge either.. The cruise pot is the big enchilada as far as surge removal goes.. Try setting that as high as possible but still retain the green LED on.. That will probably lower your MPG a noticeable amount but at least you will know if you can tune the surge out of that bike.. Once you determine that you CAN kill the surging try backing the cruise pot off ½ hour at a time until you just get the surging back, then go up about ½ hour..

 

Remember DO NOT use the actual pot numbers but treat the pots as a clock dial & set the pot by clock time.. I think those numbers on the pots confuse a lot of people as they look to be the numbers to use in the setting process (not so unfortunately)..

 

The newer (O2 connected) Techlusion units allow a lot of extra fuel to be added in the light throttle closed loop (surge) zone so if you can’t tune the surge out with that thing you have a problem that might not be totally fuel related..

 

If your problem comes & goes due to temperature or other variables you might make sure all your throttle body rubber boot clamps are tight & not leaking air & maybe test your oil temp & AIT (air inlet) sensor operation.. Also might not hurt to check the O2 sensor as maybe that is poisoned & lazy.. Turn the Techlusion off & use a voltmeter to check for O2 crosscounts when running light throttle low load light cruise..

 

Twisty

[Jim Miller]

I have 48K miles on my '02 and it runs great. Best cure for any surging is to ride the bike. It just keeps getting better. The Sargent seat is also a good choice for replacing your OE saddles and it offers weatherproof storage under the pillion for spare bulbs, oil, whatever.

[Agent_Orange]

+1. I like my Sargent seat also. And.........ride it like ya stole it. Mine has always surged at some lower speeds. At first I let it get to me. But, the more ya ride it the better it gets. I have 30 some-odd-K on the beast and it just keeps gettin better.

It sounds like you have some other problem. The surging was not that big a problem to me. What you describe and your milage makes me think you have some other issue.

[bayne]

When I had about 6000 mi. on my '02 RT, I removed the pink cat code plug [located in fuse box] and adjusted the valves. Cured 99% of my surging problems. Now have 65,000 mi. with no related problems. Pull that pink thing outta there. You'll like the results.

[redryder]

Surging not a problem for me. My good friend's 1100Rt was a surge monkey. He took it to the dealer and an independant mechanic who swore he had the "technique" to fix the surge. No good at all! Stan put a new set of Autolite's in it and 80% of the surge went away. No brag, just fact. After that, he did a "very precise" valve adjust and I helped him with a "very precise" TB synch, and now the bike runs just fine. I think patience, perseverance, and perspiration will prevail and your bike WILL run good. It's just a Beemer thing, you've got to understand. Stay with it, it can be fixed.

 

As for the seat, my Sargent seat gets me about another hour before rigor glutious/ischial callosities sets in. My old Honda was good for about 45 minutes before I lost feeling in my feet and legs, so the BMW seat is much better than that. I did find that after putting the 1 inch bar backs, my seating issues did subside to a large degree.

 

Keep us posted on the surging matters. If you're around Knoxville, let me know, I'd be happy to help if I can.

[Sidmariner]

Once again Twisty, great advice. I know what I'll be doing over this long weekend.

 

I've been using a digital voltmeter on all the pot settings, tweaking by .1 volts after every week of running. Sounds like I ought to follow your advice and make bigger adjustments on the cruise pot next time around.

 

The fairings are all coming off as soon as my new shocks arrive in about a week. That will give me the chance to check the O2 sensor and all the hose fittings. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

I hope to get the point where the surging disappears and I can get better than the 30mpg I am getting now.

[RSL]

Regarding surging and the stock seat:

 

Before you do anything else, try the Autolite 3923 plugs @ ~$1.50 each. Then, invest in about 12' of clear plastic tubing and try the home-made manometer trick to balance the throttle bodies. So, for less than ~$5 you may make a big dent in, or possibly cure, the surging issues.

 

As for the seat, consider this: 1.) Sheepskin cover. Or, 2.) Google for TemperFoam (a.k.a. NASA astronaut foam) and recover your old seat with a layer of this stuff. If the Temperfoam is applied in a thin layer, your old vinyl will probably still cover it, secured by staples or Velcro.

 

If the angle of the seat is wrong, shim it.

[bikerscooby]

For the seat, I bought one of these Bead Rider things for $35 to try out. It's funny looking but it helps and doesn't cost much.

[TWEETY BYRD]

DUAL PLUG,POWER COMMANDER,STAINTUNE AND DYNO TUNE:PLICELESS/ ALLMOST RUNS LIKE HONDA BUILT IT .SMOOTH OFF THE BOTTOM AND ALL THE WAY UP.WHEN CLOSING THE THROTTLE IT IS SMOOTH WITH A LITTLE BAUBLE WHEN I GET TIRED AND DONT GO OFF,ON AND OFF IN A PROPER MANNER. BOB

[MichiganBob]

Best I can describe it on my 02 was a bucking sensation at very low speeds (less than 25 mph). I expect that the bike was wanting more fuel but the maps in the little pink bastard (look that up in a search)kept the motor too lean (probably as a weird attempt to control emissions for every damn country in the world). The fix was to remove said pink bastard, jump a few terminals (not sure this is absolutely necessary), and shell out 22 bucks for two Denso Iridium plugs (which can now be found at PEP Boys for about 5 bucks a pop). Anyhow, mine is 100% gone so another satisfied Beemer rider.

 

Good luck.

 

Bob

[MichiganBob]

I am puzzled why so many find the stock seat on the 02RT so uncomfortable. I guess it comes down to physique and expectations. This is my fifth beemer and the seat has been great. I did jack the heck out of it to get my manly girth off the point and the tank. On my 8k trip last year, I threw on an Alaska Leather sheepskin which was terrific. For the long haul to Alaska, I purchased LD riding shorts and they were well worth the money (https://ldcomfort.com/store/product.php?productid=3&cat=2&page=1)Lots of 500-600 mile days with no monkey butt. There seems to be several great aftermarket seats that folks on this BB highly endorse.

 

Bob