Big bike + short rider = bad mix

[LANGeek]

Last year I went out and shopped around for my next bike. I wanted a long distance touring bike that was fun in the twisties. After a lot of research I decided to look at the Sports Touring category. I test drove everything. Long story short, I ordered and waited for a Piedmont Red R1200RT.

 

The R12RT is very tall compared to me. I came form a Harley background and the idea of not being able to flat foot had me concerned. But after the test ride I found with feet up the RT was perfect. It was hands (since I can’t get feet down)…hands down the best bike I ever ridden. Nothing Japanese came close and the Italians were too twitchy. But the fact that I could only tippy toe or get my left foot down while right was on the brake bothered me. I read a lot and spoke to many people that said basically, “You’ll get use to it.” And, “Your feet will be up most of the time.”

 

It is now almost a year later. I still think feet up heading down the super slab or on the back twisties the bike is great. However, during stop-n-go or stopping on uneven intersections is a nightmare. I had a custom low seat made. It didn’t help. I haven’t dropped it yet. Although, I have had countless close calls. I am thinking I made a big red mistake. I am considering selling.

 

I feel like a big bonehead. I should listen to my instincts.

[baggerchris]

I came from the same history as you and bought Bonbon the 97 RT. Fitted her out with lower floorboards/pegs, and Sargent low seat. I haven't dropped a Harley in 30 years, and I dropped Bonbon Twice in the three years she was with me. The second time way up in the Sierras and had to wait a long time before someone came along to help and she went down on a downward slope and it took 3 of us to right her.

No damage that time, but 500 bucks worth the first time. Don't feel bad about it. Maybe it will work out, and maybe you will need to move along to something else. I did.

[LANGeek]

Yea, it has gotten the point that I just don't want to take it out of the garage. I still have my '01 Sportster. I even rode the 'lil Sporty in 30 degree whether when my truck was in the shop. The RT was sitting next to it with a windshield and heated seats and grips. But I took the Sporty w/ no windshield nothing like heated seats. That's when I started thinking selling the RT was a good idea. It is too expensive to be sculpture sitting in the garage.

 

I think the next bike will be a Street Glide or a Road King.

[johnlt]

You can have the suspension shortened. I know of several folks with short inseams that have done that and it seemed to solve the problem. Not sure how much it costs, you may want to check with your dealer.

[LANGeek]

The RT has the ESA on it. That can't be lowered (according to the BMW techs) and there is some concern as to what the computer will do if the ESA sensors are disconnected and anohter suspension is installed. Bottom line, the BMW techs are still researching it.

[JustKrusen]

I can flat foot my Wing but nor my RT. I have a Sargent hi seat and like the bike this way. I only put one foot down at stops and have not had any problems. I have about 12,000 miles on it now in less than a year. Lo seats just bend my knees more and that is unacceptable to me. The RT is so light that I have NO problem with one foot down stops. In fact I am doing the same on the Wing more often than ever before. I think it has a lot to do with practice and just getting use to it.

[MrHondamatic]

Can they relocate the sensors? If they could raise part of them up to trick the computer into thinking the bike was too tall, it might solve your problem.

 

I know my old K75 had a ton of suspension travel, probably more than needed. I suspect the newer bikes are the same.

[Husker Red]

I think the next bike will be a Street Glide or a Road King.

MMmnmnm, Steet Glide....

 

I just bought a new RT, but those Street Glides are sweeeet.

[CopsRT]

I replaced my ESA shocks with Ohlins (didn't care for the ESA) with out any problems, computer codes or issues. My mechanic checked everything over and found no problems eather. Go ahead and look into shorter shocks and injoy the bike.

[Redbrick]

Quote:

 

I am thinking I made a big red mistake. I am considering selling.

 

Quote:

 

Sorry about your dissatisfaction with the seat height of the 1200RT....It is pretty tall even with a stock low seat but you have to be comfortable to really enjoy a bike and not be concerned with dropping it every time you stop...I'm wondering how many miles you've put on it....Enough to really to get to know it?...Tried regular parking lot stop and goes and tight turning practice?......Some regular practice sessions might help you tolerate it better....Thicker soled boots? (See "Hoon on the loose" in ride tales...Jackie has about 3" lifts on her boots).......Lower suspension components would probably solve your problem...Others here have experience with these systems, I don't...

But it'll never feel like your Sportster that's probably 3" or 4" lower.........

I have a similar situation being vertically challenged....Coincidentally with a red 1200RT and a 29-1/2" inseam stretching to 5'7" tall..... Tippy toe for me and to add to it I put on a Sargent (low) seat which effectively makes it even farther for the toes to reach than with the stock one...I, like you, love the bike and am very careful when stopping....

Here's hoping you can get more comfortable with it....Would be a shame to have to sell but you wouldn't have any trouble...Lots of folks out there looking for used 1200RT's...Particularly the best looking one; Piedmont Red....

 

Goodluck......

 

Phil..........Redbrick

[dawn]

Grr, had a response and lost it. I posted a pic in this thread

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/sh...e=0&fpart=3

 

I'm being frustratd trying to learn this board but short version is 2" platform and I flat foot my RT. I had the same uneasy feeling when I was riding a GL1800 but the lighter narrower bike and these boots make the RT a dream.

[TowJam]

I feel like a big bonehead. I should listen to my instincts.

You're not alone and I totally empathize with you. I'm 5'6" and have owned a number of Harleys and BMWs. I like the BMWs for the performance and handling but I don't feel near as confident in situations where I need to have my feet down. From an ergo standpoint, Harleys feel as comfortable as an old tennis shoe.

[Eckhard Grohe]

I've dropped my RT 4 times, 2 on each side and I had to replace the fairing bracket(support frame) and broke both foot rest plates. These were welded back together... I am installing some shorter shocks now hoping that I can feel more secure. If not bye, bye RT.

 

I hope you find a solution to the problem.

[gettysburg]

Grr, had a response and lost it. I posted a pic in this thread

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/sh...e=0&fpart=3

 

I'm being frustratd trying to learn this board but short version is 2" platform and I flat foot my RT. I had the same uneasy feeling when I was riding a GL1800 but the lighter narrower bike and these boots make the RT a dream.

 

 

How on earth are you able to shift gears?

[Bill Fowler]

Why are we having this conversation? If you can't reach the ground quit trying to kid yourself. And yes I am aware of a short motocrosser who does just great. That ain't like blowing it out in public.

[gettysburg]

I've got about a 29" inseam. I almost immediately gave up trying to straddle the bike tip-toed. As I'm coming to a stop, I'll shift my weight slightly to the left or right(depending on the road conditions), so I can flat foot with on leg and leave the other foot on the foot peg. The result is my leg acts like a side-stand, with the weight of the bike resting against my inner thigh.

 

Also, I've dropped my bike enough times that the thought of dropping doesn't freak me out any more. And as a result, I'm less likely to drop the bike.

[Steve1962]

I've got about a 29" inseam. I almost immediately gave up trying to straddle the bike tip-toed. As I'm coming to a stop, I'll shift my weight slightly to the left or right(depending on the road conditions), so I can flat foot with on leg and leave the other foot on the foot peg. The result is my leg acts like a side-stand, with the weight of the bike resting against my inner thigh.

 

This is the right approach ,and the one I used when I had the Panzer [ 1200 RT ] . If an eleven stone weakling like me can do it , anyone can - it just takes practise , and common sense [ don't ask SWMBO about my common sense ] , and the problem can be overcome .

I appreciate it is spoiling the riding experience , but if you just give it a try , it may well do the trick .

 

Steve

[soboy]

Sell it. The combination of a short rider and a tall, heavy bike is not conducive to motorcycling enjoyment.

 

I am 5'8 with a 29" inseam. I had a similar issue with my WeeStrom - I could get the balls of my feet to touch the ground at stops on level pavement, but with a full tank of fuel, the bike was somewhat top-heavy and unwieldy for me when stopped. One day, after a very long ride, I filled up the tank and ended up on an unfamiliar road with a very sharp camber. Came to a red light at a busy intersection, put my right foot down and there was no pavement for many inches - the bike leaned too far and it went down verrrrry slowly. No damage except to my ego and I sold it shortly thereafter.

 

I still am riding tall bikes that I can not flat foot (DR650 and Transalp), but they are both lighter than the Wee (the DR by over 100 pounds) and I feel much more confident at stops on them.

[Wooster]

LANGeek,

 

Sorry for your plight. At 169 cm, I, too, bemoan the increasing seat heights; dirt bikes give me a nose bleed.

FWIW, I think you should sell the bike and find something you feel more secure on. While definitely old school, an airhead RT is a couple of inches shorter than the oil/hexheads.

 

Wooster who wonders what's "eleven stone"

[tallman]

11 stone = 154 lbs.

 

Look, ya'll knew how big the girl was before you decided to dance with her.

If you want to ride that bike, get it lowered a couple of inches, see a cobbler and have 1/2' or so (don't go wild) added, get a custom seat (as easy as removing cover and cutting foam).

Together this can give you 4-5 inches.

If that isn't enough....

 

 

Or course I can stand flatfoot over a GS Adventure,

 

 

 

 

 

when it's on the centerstand.

[gettysburg]

Or course I can stand flatfoot over a GS Adventure,

 

when it's on the centerstand.

 

DAMN YOU!!!!

[dawn]

11 stone = 154 lbs.

 

Look, ya'll knew how big the girl was before you decided to dance with her.

If you want to ride that bike, get it lowered a couple of inches, see a cobbler and have 1/2' or so (don't go wild) added, get a custom seat (as easy as removing cover and cutting foam).

Together this can give you 4-5 inches.

If that isn't enough....

 

 

Or course I can stand flatfoot over a GS Adventure,

 

 

 

 

 

when it's on the centerstand.

 

Gloating is so unbecomming.

[dawn]

Grr, had a response and lost it. I posted a pic in this thread

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/sh...e=0&fpart=3

 

I'm being frustratd trying to learn this board but short version is 2" platform and I flat foot my RT. I had the same uneasy feeling when I was riding a GL1800 but the lighter narrower bike and these boots make the RT a dream.

 

 

How on earth are you able to shift gears?

 

Hey thanks! Those are them. Work great. I shift with the side of my boot. Having come off a wing where I was NEVER comfortable in parkinglots I was determined I would start comfortable on this bike then work my way up to normal boots. I did ride an 04 RT with regular boots in Europe once. I was like a pointe ballerina on the very tippy toe of my boots. Only rode it briefly so I could experience the autobahn. Then I went back to my 650gs.

[tallman]

Would you like me to tell you how many helmets and visors I've scratched going in and out of doorways?

 

 

 

Feel better now?

 

Seriously, there are steps that can make the beemer user friendly for most, if not all riders.

[wrestleantares]

Seriously, there are steps that can make the beemer user friendly for most, if not all riders.

 

Really, because I find that most beemer users are only friendly to other beemer users.

[Mike]

I know it can be uncomfortable (not to mention dangerous) to not be able to flat-foot it when you're stopped, but selling your RT seems pretty drastic. While you paid mightily for ESA, as already noted there are enough folks who have replaced their ESA shocks with aftermarket shocks to know that doing so is a viable option. As far as the seat is concerned, how much did you work with the maker to accommodate your short legs? Part of the magic in getting a good seat for the vertically challenged is ensuring that it's tapered sufficiently at some point, to keep your legs from being splayed outward.

 

If you do determine that the RT isn't for you, I'd suggest giving an R12ST a test. I've got one and it seems that the stock seat, even in its higher setting, is pretty low to the ground. The ST is kind of an RT-lite: less wind protection, but a notably lighter bike, built around the same mechanicals as the RT.

[Rusty1945]

The R12RT is very tall compared to me. I came form a Harley background and the idea of not being able to flat foot had me concerned.

What seat do you have? I have the very same bike as you (love the red), my inseam is 29.5" and I can flat foot with the BMW low seat. Yes, my legs are almost straight, not much bend at the knee, but I can get both feet flat on the ground.

 

Last weekend, we had a couple of days with wind gusts up to 50mph. There is no way I could have kept my RT up at a stop without having both feet on the ground. Stopping with one foot on the ground is overrated.

[Rusty1945]

If you do determine that the RT isn't for you, I'd suggest giving an R12ST a test.

Also give the new R1200R a try. I sat on one and it is definitely lower than my RT. You can outfit it with paniers and even a top case and have almost everything an RT has except the faring.

[Ben_Ricci]

If you do determine that the RT isn't for you, I'd suggest giving an R12ST a test. I've got one and it seems that the stock seat, even in its higher setting, is pretty low to the ground. The ST is kind of an RT-lite: less wind protection, but a notably lighter bike, built around the same mechanicals as the RT.

 

+1. I'm 5'7" and I can flat foot my ST (with the low seat) pretty easily with regular ol' Sidi boots.

[BluegrassPicker]

You don't say what your inseam is, but mine is 29-30".

I have had my 02 rt with a comfort seat for aboout year. I ordered a short seat and sold it the next day.

The better reach was good, but not worth the extra knee bend.

I did get used to it, but it took some adjustment from my v-star. Now I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[wbrissette]

I just got back from the Harley dealership (I was picking up a new seat for my wife's Buell Blast). While I was there I sat on the Buell Ulysses. Even with my longer inseam (32") I couldn't flat foot that bike. I understand the frustration people have with taller bikes now. I still liked the Uly though... But not enough to sell my RT.

 

Wayne

[TowJam]

I just got back from the Harley dealership (I was picking up a new seat for my wife's Buell Blast). While I was there I sat on the Buell Ulysses. Even with my longer inseam (32") I couldn't flat foot that bike. I understand the frustration people have with taller bikes now. I still liked the Uly though... But not enough to sell my RT.

Buell has lost a significant amount of Uly sales due to the seat height issue. For '07, they made the '07 lower seat option the standard. Yet, it's still too tall for someone with <32" inseam. For those of us with no off-road aspirations, a Uly without the extended suspension would be a no-brainer.

[wrestleantares]

I just got back from the Harley dealership (I was picking up a new seat for my wife's Buell Blast). While I was there I sat on the Buell Ulysses. Even with my longer inseam (32") I couldn't flat foot that bike. I understand the frustration people have with taller bikes now. I still liked the Uly though... But not enough to sell my RT.

Buell has lost a significant amount of Uly sales due to the seat height issue. For '07, they made the '07 lower seat option the standard. Yet, it's still too tall for someone with <32" inseam. For those of us with no off-road aspirations, a Uly without the extended suspension would be a no-brainer.

 

But then it wouldn't be a ULY it would be an XB12S.

[TowJam]

But then it wouldn't be a ULY it would be an XB12S.

 

Not quite. It would be an XB12Ss - with a more comfortable seat, optional killer hard luggage, dual power accessories, better wind protection, more underseat storage, helmet locks, LED tail light, better handlebars, progressive front suspension, yada yada yada.

 

I've test ridden a Uly. I've owned a 12Ss. A 12Ss is no short Uly.

[wrestleantares]

But then it wouldn't be a ULY it would be an XB12S.

 

Not quite. It would be an XB12Ss - with a more comfortable seat, optional killer hard luggage, dual power accessories, better wind protection, more underseat storage, helmet locks, LED tail light, better handlebars, progressive front suspension, yada yada yada.

 

I've test ridden a Uly. I've owned a 12Ss. A 12Ss is no short Uly.

 

I was being facetious and apparently not funny at all, but my understanding is that the ULY and the XB12S have the same suspension system with ULY's only difference is longer travel.

 

It sounds like what you really want is for Buell to build a real ST bike along with it's naked and sportbikes.

[TowJam]

..but my understanding is that the ULY and the XB12S have the same suspension system with ULY's only difference is longer travel.

 

They may share the same rear suspension but the Uly added progressive sprung front shocks for '07 due to the complaints of front end dive.

 

It sounds like what you really want is for Buell to build a real ST bike along with it's naked and sportbikes.

Yep.

[Tippy]

At 5'3" with a 27" inseam, I share your frustration. I have been motorcycling for 40yrs, and have had to place ride height at the top of the criteria list for chosing a bike. When I bought my RT1100, I decided I was going to buy the bike I wanted and find a way to make it fit. I had the seat modified, wear thick soled boots (about 1 1/2"), and installed modified Ohlins shocks, which necessitated altering the side stand. MOdifying the OHlins was easy, once I gathered sufficient information about how to do it. Basically, the shocks were dismantled and 10mm spacers inserted to prevent the shaft from fully extending. The suspension geometry resulted in a reduction in ride height of about 1". Did this affect the ride and handling? Yes, it improved it significantly over the stock shocks, and I am a fairly spirited rider.

 

I strongly recommend this to others who share the short legged challenge. I believe that no matter your skill and experience, it is simply not worth the discomfort of always worrying about the slope of the road, or if there is lose gravel, or if you have to maneuver the bike in and out of tight parking spaces. With these modifications I am very close to flat-footed. Go for it!

 

Maybe BMW will figure out that they are losing business by building bikes with such high ride heights, like the 1200RT or the new 800's.

[LANGeek]

I am not sure if spending more money on this without knowing the results is a risk worth taking. I don’t know how the ride will be if I change the shocks or if it will be low enough to be comfortable.

 

I don’t know what I want to do. Sell it or modify it.