Why go to school?

[Misti]

As a coach for a motorcycle riding school, I often wonder what motivates riders to seek training (any kind of rider training) in the first place. Is it because of a bad experience on the road or a crash of some kind? Is it to learn to be safer or smoother or faster? What types of rider training have you had and what were the reasons you signed up in the first place???

 

Cherio, Misti

[russell_bynum]

When I started riding (dirt as a kid), my parents taught me. (They were self-taught.) I did OK, but I was a kid, so probably didn't know any better.

 

When I bought my first street bike, I figured "I already know how to ride." so I skipped the MSF class. What a rude awakening that was! I had a trial by fire learning to ride while commuting in Southern California. It is a wonder I survived.

 

I signed up for the Superbike School because a bunch of my friends and some really good riders I know (and David Baker, too ) had done a few days with the school and had nothing but praise. After the first two levels, I was starting to understand just how much I didn't know and how much I had to work on. We mostly do track days now, but I like to go back to the school at least once a year to reinforce the skills, help me deal with any bad habits I have developed, and give me stuff to work on during my regular track days.

 

When we bought dirt bikes a month or so ago, we immediately signed up for the MotoVentures dirt rider class. It gave us a good fundamental understanding of what we needed to be doing, and I'm sure it'll increase our fun and decrease the amount of time we spend on the ground wondering how our bike got way the hell over there .

 

I'd love to take more training. SuperMotard looks like hoot, with some really different methods and techniques for dealing with the corners. The Wheelie School would be good for me because right now I'm affraid of wheelies. I don't have any aspirations of going to join the Las Vegas Extremes or anything like that, but I shouldn't be affraid of something like that either. Fear usually causes survival reactions, which are rarely good for survival. Trials looks insanely fun, and a fantastic way to learn balance and control.

 

Basically, I go to training, because I like knowing the what/why/how of what's going on.

[Woodie]

Safer, smoother.

 

Hadn't taken *any* classes (for ~22 years since my first cycle). Wanted to do track day/CLASS, too many $$...so local ARC was it.

 

Why...a few crashes in my background (nothing recent), got a newer bike, wanted to do something to improve riding skills.

[dawn]

I took the basic rider course because I bought a motorcycle and had no idea how to ride it. I had the sales guy ride it to my house.

 

Then about 9 months later I took the ERC. Need to repeat that as it has been several years. I've looked at some of the other schools but I just don't think I have the guts to get out there with the big boys so I stay on the porch.

[russell_bynum]

looked at some of the other schools but I just don't think I have the guts to get out there with the big boys so I stay on the porch.

 

I can't speak for the other track-oriented schools, but I can tell you 100% that the Superbike School would be fine. Will there be people there who are way more expreienced and faster than you? Yes. Will there be people who are slower than you? Probably.

 

Everyone goes their own pace. Faster riders stay clear of slower riders. (Superbike School's course control is absolutely anal about that, so it is very laid back and not intimidating.) You would be totally fine.

[oodude]

I started riding last year at the age of 50. I had never even sat on a motorcycle, let alone know what all the levers and pedals did. Taking the MSF course seemed like a really good idea.

[motorman587]

There is things in life that you do. There are interests that you do, but for me there is one thing and that is to be the best motorcycle rider there is. I know I am not, but I try. I am not good in book work, not good in sports, not good in fishing, and sure in hell can not spell or write, but I can ride the crap out of a motorcycle. I enjoy teaching this to others and the only way is to continue training. I just took an ERC and I am a Ridercoach. Riding a motorcycle is a skill that you must keep peaked. Otherwise those skills will fail after time and if there are not peaked, then I believe a crash will occur. Training is very important. Track days, ERC, BRC or a motorcop, just attempting to past his 15 years of knowledge in a parking lot.

Train, live, very simple.

[Francois_Dumas]

Easy here: it is the only sensible thing to do, and it is the only way to have a chance on passing the very severe exams that are mandatory for an A-license

[dawn]

Thanks for the input. I'm in Dallas so would look into something in the midwest most likely. When life settles down for me a bit I might just look into it again and see what they say about little old lady riders.

[woodscrew]

I came back to street riding about 5 years ago after a 10 year hiatus. I bought a BMW and took the ERC/MSF course and was (as always) surprised at the things I didn't know.Have ridden 4 tours run by an instructor, had fun and totally changed my riding style for the better/ safer.I just signed up for a tour of W.Va whose focus is on smoother/faster/safer riding instruction. I've been thinking of doing a Keith Code school when it shows up in the Poconos this summer. I read all I can and practice what I read. For me it's the joy of learning to ride better in all areas - anything worth doing... Safety is number one but I'd be lying if I didn't say I enjoy riding smooth and fast.Fast being a relative term. I'm 53, so like I tell some young riders about bikes- young guys want to know how fast they go, old guys want to know how fast they stop.

[oodude]

Thanks for the input. I'm in Dallas so would look into something in the midwest most likely. When life settles down for me a bit I might just look into it again and see what they say about little old lady riders.

 

I was in Dallas on business two weeks back to back last year and was looking for something to do on the weekend. I got my training here:

 

http://www.aplusrider.com/

[RocksforBrains]

I am taking the ERC course this weekend actually. Why? I have been riding off and on for 25 yesrs (mostly off). As I am getting back into motorcycling I thought I would read up on techniques and safety issues. I bought "Proficient Motorcycling" and "Motorcycling Excellence". I read them both. Both are great reads. I like "Proficient Motorcycling" the best, I highly reccomend it. After reading these books I realized how much I didn't know. So I signed up for the ERC. I look forward to some hands on training.

[jgrant]

Besides the BRC I have taken the two-day school at California Superbike School. I have also had less formal training at the track during various track days. I plan on taking more formal schools as time and money permit.

 

Why do it? Motorcycling for me is a sport and I do it at least partially for the challenge of it. One way of making it more challenging is to learn how it is "supposed" to be done and make that your goal. Obviously how it "supposed" to be done differs on street and track but many of the fundamentals are the same. I find that the skills that I have learned from the track and the schooling I have received there have really helped my street riding. If I can't look through a turn on the track it ain't gonna happen on the street. It also gives me the opportunity to understand more about the physics of my bike in a safe environment (i.e. the effect of throttle mid-turn or braking mid-turn).

 

I would like to take some street focused schools next.

[Misti]

Cool, thanks guys. A lot of comments about coming back to riding after a break and refreshing skills after a certain amount of time.

 

I don't know how it works in the States but is the MSF course required? Here in Canada you don't need any rider training to get your licence, just pass the silly little test. Do you think that a rider school or more formal training should be manditory in order to get a motorcycle licence?

 

Misti

[Stormrider]

(quote)Do you think that a rider school or more formal training should be manditory in order to get a motorcycle licence?

 

Misti

 

Sniff-sniff...hmmm I smell worms.

[Bill_Walker]

I'd ridden friends bikes a little bit as a kid, but never had one of my own (dang parents! ). In the early 80s, I decided to take it up again. Being an engineer, I knew the importance of training, and took the MSF class to get started. Bought my bro-in-law's KZ650 and rode it for a year or two. Decided that what I learned in the MSF course made me so paranoid that I wasn't having fun.

 

Fast-forward to Christmas, 2000. Bro-in-law got a new bike for his birthday a few weeks earlier, so he gave me the bike he replaced his KZ650 with, to get me back into riding: an '84 KZ1100 LTD. Perfect re-entry bike, no?

 

I decided I'd better do this right. Got all the books I could lay my hands on and read them. Rode for a couple of months and then, because I could afford it, took the 3-day camp at Freddie Spencer's (chosen partially because it included a half day on the dirt). I had a great time, learned a huge amount, but really should have ridden for at least a few more months before I took the course. Worked out OK, though. Among other things, they taught me to hang off, which I learned was an absolute necessity for riding that big cruiser up Mt. Palomar's South Grade at more than a walking pace!

 

A year or two (and a couple of bikes) later, I took the 2-day camp from CSS at the Streets of Willow, doing levels 1 and 2. Fixed some bad habits I'd developed, and taught me a few things Spencer hadn't. I recommend Code over Spencer for street riders (can't speak for track riders).

 

I took the ERC a few months ago, when they did their "Free Ride" promotion in SoCal. I found it quite easy, but I'm always glad for a chance to practice.

 

In sum, the reason to go to school is the same reason they have coaches in all other sports: you need somebody who knows what they're looking at to watch you and give you feedback. It's so easy to be unaware of things you're doing wrong, even when you know those things are wrong! Then somebody points out that you're doing it wrong, and the light bulb goes on and you say "Oh, you're right! How come I didn't notice that?"

 

My example: Spencer (and Hough) had taught me to look ahead and keep my eyes scanning. I thought I was doing that, until we did the vision exercises at CSS. "Dang, how did I slip back into that close vision?"

 

I'm probably due for a refresher.

[steveknapp]

I don't know how it works in the States but is the MSF course required? Here in Canada you don't need any rider training to get your licence, just pass the silly little test. Do you think that a rider school or more formal training should be manditory in order to get a motorcycle licence?

 

Varies by state I'd suppose. In Illinois you can either take the MSF course or the parking lot test. I went the parking lot route being taught by a friend. I've encouraged friends of mine to ride, always pointing them to the MSF course.

 

To be honest, I don't think either setup is ideal for first time riders. Either route, having a good friend/mentor for the first few months I think is really helpful.

 

As far as being mandatory, I come away pretty mixed. Some of the articles in MCN of late made some good points, questioning the goals of the MSF.

[BerryG]

When I first threw a leg over in my early teen years, it was 1964 and there weren't any schools that I know of. There wasn't even a special MC license.

 

I would like to go to a track school now.

I wouldn't mind a MSF type school either.

[MJinCP]

BerryG...

 

Is that an ADF in your avitar?

[pickersgill1]

Hi I took the UK Advanced Motorcycle Test to improve my riding, to make me a safer rider to carry the wife on the back. Good experiance and increased social circle.

 

www.suffolk-advanced-motorcyclists.com/

 

Regards

 

John

 

Dovercourt, Essex-England

[RocksforBrains]

I just finished the ERC course yesterday. I have to agree with Bill Walker's post. Even though I had read up on the techniques such as looking through turns, how to swerve to dodge objects in the road, etc, it was very helpful to have someone critique me as I rode though the manuevers. As the (long) day wore on I got better and better.

 

I also met a lot of great people from all walks of life. It was fun to talk bikes with the other students during breaks and look at their bikes...It was like a small bike show! There was one guy on a beautiful Harly. It was some type of retro bike with laced wheels. He said he takes the ERC every spring to polish his skills. Not a bad idea here in Idaho where there are 4-5 months a year when it is hard to ride due to the weather.

 

In Idaho one either has to pass a riding skills test or take either the BRC or ERC to get your "M" endorsement. This requirement took effect in the mid 90's.

 

Kurt

[George Brown]

For me it was easy. After about 10 years of riding steady plus a couple of years when I was younger, I followed and older couple riding two-up with a bunch of camping gear on a R90 or R100 across Oregon. I had a lot of trouble keeping up in the twisties and decided that there must be a lot I don't know yet.

 

Ride Smart was the best time investment I have every put into improving riding skills.

[NoLongeraK1200RSRider]

I have never had any formal training in all my years of riding. I now wish that I had, but being 60 years old and pretty much afraid of falling down, I find that I ride very conservatively when in the "twisties". I do have a "problem" with my right wrist trying to twist the throttle off the bars when on the straights though. To all upcoming riders, I would STRONGLY recommend taking classes to learn proper bike handling skills as the speeds they are capable of are so very much higher on the new bikes compared to the old stuff as well as traffic being heavier and distracted drivers so prevalent. My son is a newer rider that was shown some good things by a friend who is a high performance rider. I still wish that he would take a formal course though.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Larry,

Why not just take one with him? There are a wealth of schools in your area and, I can assure you, you both will have a blast and come away with some valuable information and new skills. I took level 1 of CSS at Barber at age 62 and came out a much better rider than when I went in. Only things that are keeping me from doing more of this stuff are time and money. The beauty of the CSS system is that all you have to do is show up and bring underwear and an open mind. They have everything else you need in a couple of big trailers. Bikes, leathers, helmets, gloves, boots, liquids to drink and tablets to replenish electrolytes. They even had a lunch available although I don't know if they do that everywhere.

 

Don't worry about crashing, nobody at the schools will push you beyond your own pace and the rules are very strictly enforced about when and how close passing is allowed. That learning stuff is sneaky too, I knocked over 20 seconds off my lap times around a 2.3 mile course during the course of the day and, on my fastest laps in the last session, I was actually riding much less hard than I had earlier done. Less hard meaning I had to put in less effort and my fear factor was way down compared to the earlier sessions. I even passed a few folks and ran away from others. A fun day to be sure.

[NoLongeraK1200RSRider]

Thanks for the feedback Ed. I may have to look into that as he is always wanting to ride with me, although at a faster pace than feels comfortable to me, so he stays behind me most of the time and is sort of disappointed that he can't go faster.

[MJinCP]

OK, I'm convinced I need to go to school. Just back into riding after 20 year layoff. Lots of different schoold mentioned in this thread using initials, i.e. "ERC", "SCC", etc. Can someone please decifer the initials and give the complete names and locations of these shcools? I'm in northern CA - what schools are in norcal that are reccommended? Thank you!

[Bill_Walker]

OK, I'm convinced I need to go to school. Just back into riding after 20 year layoff. Lots of different schoold mentioned in this thread using initials, i.e. "ERC", "SCC", etc. Can someone please decifer the initials and give the complete names and locations of these shcools? I'm in northern CA - what schools are in norcal that are reccommended? Thank you!

 

ERC is the Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Experienced Rider Course. MSF also provides the Basic Rider Course (BRC). Check the link for classes in your area.

 

CSS is the California Superbike School, run by Keith Code (thus also referred to as "Code's"). Don't let the name fool you, they give courses at tracks all over the country. I know they sometimes go to Laguna Seca. Check the web site, they may also go Sears Point/Infineon or Thunderhill.

 

P.S. Buttonwillow is also pretty easy to get to from your area, since it's right off I-5. Google says about 300 miles.

[jgrant]

Hey Mike,

 

There are a few different track style schools and Keith Code is just one of them. I attended the 2 day camp and really learned a lot from it.

 

But I have heard great things from friends who have attended the other shools about the Freddie Spencer school, CLASS (Reg Pridmore's school) and STAR (Jason Pridmore's school). They all offer slightly different material and different teaching styles.

 

I think that STAR, CLASS, and CSS all have events up north.

 

Good luck and enjoy!

james

[Misti]

Hey Y'all,

 

Thanks for the answers about the MSF courses etc. I like the comment about how you can read up on riding techniques but it becomes much more clear when you actually get to practice the techniques at a school with immediate feedback. I personally don't learn very well by reading the books, it gives me a basic idea but I need to do things hands on in order to really "get it."

 

Cheers!

 

Misti

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Another thing about schools is getting rid of what I call the creeping sloppies. We older riders and some of you whipersnappers, tend to fall back into old habits if we don't regularly get input. I cannot, for the life of me, remember what I had for breakfast, as a ludicrous example.

 

There is nothing like an experienced instructor, following you around, or possibly leading you, to point out what it is you are doing wrong and, more importantly, how to correct it. The immediate feedback and the chance to try it all out again 40 minutes later after you have had your chat/review and then class session is just priceless in building a skill set.

 

I'll probably do a 2 day camp later this year if I can gather the lucre. Plan is to repeat level 1 just to get my groove back and then move on to level 2. I'll press the VFR into duty for this rather than the Blackbird, nobody needs as much power as that thing puts out, although it might be fun, it will need too much stuff to make a decent track bike.

[Bill_Walker]

It's also very humbling when you follow your instructor into a turn with every fiber of your being screaming "This is TOO FAST!!! WE'RE GONNA DIE!!!" and then notice the instructor going through the turn ahead of you while sitting half-turned in the seat, watching you, and signaling to you with his/her left hand!

[russell_bynum]

It's also very humbling when you follow your instructor into a turn with every fiber of your being screaming "This is TOO FAST!!! WE'RE GONNA DIE!!!" and then notice the instructor going through the turn ahead of you while sitting half-turned in the seat, watching you, and signaling to you with his/her left hand!

 

Yeah, that's a great way to deflate your ego.

[steveknapp]

It's even worse when it's some putz from the west coast on a borrowed bike.

[russell_bynum]

It's even worse when it's some putz from the west coast on a borrowed bike.

 

[JerryMather]

Thanks for the feedback Ed. I may have to look into that as he is always wanting to ride with me, although at a faster pace than feels comfortable to me, so he stays behind me most of the time and is sort of disappointed that he can't go faster.

Larry-

I highly recommend you spending a day with Reg and his crew while they're in your area. His program is set up for folks just like yourself.

Class

[Timmer]

It's also very humbling when you follow your instructor into a turn with every fiber of your being screaming "This is TOO FAST!!! WE'RE GONNA DIE!!!" and then notice the instructor going through the turn ahead of you while sitting half-turned in the seat, watching you, and signaling to you with his/her left hand!

 

Too funny! I had the same thing happen to me last year at Infineon following GI Jane.

 

I'm like Misti - I can read about it and learn the basic concept, but it doesn't "take" until I actually do it - at least a dozen times...

[NoLongeraK1200RSRider]

Jerry.. Thanks for the advice as well as the link. It looks like it might be something I could do.. and maybe even learn something.