Skills Test to get your Permit

[Yeeha! Stephen]

This came up at work today. Did your Motorcycle Permit Test involve performing any handling skills?

 

The Trooper station near my house takes riders through the neighborhood behind that station for the Cycle Test. You do a few right turns, a few left turns and perform a smooth stop and back to the station you go.

 

If you took an MSF type approved course, you get to skip that part and just take the written.

 

I took the test in the late 60's and when I tell people the skills I had to demonstrate they look at me like I'm telling a whopper.

 

We had to ride down a narrow path of traffic cones (yellow back then) and make a panic stop with out fishtailing and knocking cones out of line.

 

We rode in a tightening spiral of cones until we put a foot down. They measured that distance and you had to go a certain distance to pass. Plus you couldn't knock any cones down.

 

We had to demonstrate several smooth starts and stops in succession with out "popping" the clutch or stalling the bike.

 

We had to demonstrate all the proper hand signals while stationary and then again while circling the parking lot.

 

We also did a few of the things a modern course throws in... the tight U-turn within the cones. And a quick lane change with a panic stop.

 

One funny thing they required, when doing a panic stop, you HAD to skid the back tire to demonstrate to the tester that you were indeed Panic stopping. Funny.

 

I was just wondering if anyone else got their permit Back in the Old Days and can remember some of the funny stuff you had to do.

 

I'm gonna print it off and show the guys at work that I'm not nuts!

 

ps: if any of you old timers from ft. worth are reading this, i took my test at the old Handley station in east ft. worth

[MadDuck]

In 1974, Rock Island,IL the test was a figure 8 on the street west of the office. Simple enough till you cover it with fines sand, steep crown and very irregular pavement. That simple test was harder than any of the MSF tests I ever took. Still hate gravel.

[Francois_Dumas]

I was just wondering if anyone else got their permit Back in the Old Days and can remember some of the funny stuff you had to do.

 

 

No, but that's pretty much the first 10% of what you have to show in skills in Europe to even THINK about buying a motorcycle....

 

[k75duck]

I bought a pretty used '79 KZ750 for $500 in 1986 as my first bike. Got a learner's permit - nothing required other than having a dirvers license and $10-15 IIRC. Did a few hours of street riding and a LITTLE parking lot practice and, since I'd had a scooter before and wasn't having any real problems with the clutch, throttle and gears, decided I was ready for the test.

 

The test for the full MC endorsement(WA state) involved a big U-turn in a cone box, some slow S's through cones and a go "fast" then stop on this line exercise. There may have been a couple of other parking lot drills of that nature - don't remember all of the details.

 

Being a USED bike, it didn't do too well at low RPMs and stalled a few times on me - requiring me to put my foot down. Examiner failed me before the test was over and told me to get the bike running better.

 

After that, did a couple more short parking lot practice sessions, did nothing to the bike and went back a couple of weeks later. The bike still stalled a couple of times during the drills and I had to put my foot down. The examiner (different guy) said I needed to get the bike running smoother(fom a mechanical, not riding, perspective) but he said it looked like I knew what I was doing so he passed me anyway.

[Orpheum]

I took my test in NJ back in the early 70's. They had a course set up for cars at the inspection station that they told you to go ride around while they watched you. I think I may have had to do a figure 8, but not much beyond that.No big deal.

[smiller]

No, but that's pretty much the first 10% of what you have to show in skills in Europe to even THINK about buying a motorcycle....

Yes, we've frequently discussed the difference in training requirements.

 

I've recently been looking for a source of data that compares the US motorcycle accident rate with that of Europe but haven't been very successful. An unbiased apples-to-apples comparison might be difficult to assemble but perhaps someone has attempted this? Anyone have any links?

[Francois_Dumas]

I think there was a discussion on that very issue late last year here...

Statistics are REALLY difficult, since all countries have different laws, infrastructure, 'riding styles, and culture/temperament....

Also traffic density and road widths are very different in various places, here and over yonder.

 

I don't think you'd find apples and apples

 

But to me it's a no-brainer that in general one knows something better after 3-4 months of professional intensive guidance than without any. That difference will get less over the years, when both manage to survive and gain experience.

And of course some people are very talented and others not at all..... but still

[Francois_Dumas]

I forgot.. it is also a no-brainer that our system is wildly expensive

[smiller]

For many (most?) in the US, it's a 'no brainer' that prohibiting lane sharing/spliting/filtering by motorcycles must reduce accidents. Maybe the practice should be baned in Europe?

 

Seriously, looking at the extremes, a lot of training is indeed likely to be 'better' than no training, at least to one degree or another. But whether complex, lengthy, and expensive licensing requirements are a particularly cost-effective or efficient way of achieving that end certainly seems like it might be open to question.

[nrp]

In Minnesota in 1969 I recall it was a couple of turns (both ways yet!) and then gently stop when the examiner dropped his handkerchief - using both brakes. I passed on my Honda CB350.

[Green RT]

In Alaska in 1958, I don't remember even having to get a license for the Allstate/Sears moped that I had. In California in 1967, I had to ride around the parking lot for about 2 minutes. I vaguely recall a start, a figure eight and a stop, on a Honda 305 Dream.

[Axe]

emmm if I remember right it was 1960 my mother took me to a guy who was selling Honda's from his back porch. Bought a Honda Super 90 and rode it home. No license requirements or endorsments then I don't think. I dropped it a half a dozen times the first week but eventually learned how to tame that beast.

[Francois_Dumas]

For many (most?) in the US, it's a 'no brainer' that prohibiting lane sharing/spliting/filtering by motorcycles must reduce accidents. Maybe the practice should be baned in Europe?

 

Why? Only when the cagers are not aware of their responsibilities... which ALSO comes down to a lack of education, skills and rules

 

Seriously, looking at the extremes, a lot of training is indeed likely to be 'better' than no training, at least to one degree or another. But whether complex, lengthy, and expensive licensing requirements are a particularly cost-effective or efficient way of achieving that end certainly seems like it might be open to question.

 

Cost-effective is not the issue... it is expensive to very expensive, true. But the more training you get, the more experienced you become, the higher the chance to survive. Why do armies continue to train their soldiers, airlines and airforces their pilots ?

 

Things are a-changing in Europe too, with too many people flocking our roads these days. That invariably means less social control, less educuation, less serious training and exams, and less responsibility.... all culminating in more crime, more stress and more road rage.

Our licenses and rules do not protect us from that, admitted.

 

Only birth control might

[smiller]

For many (most?) in the US, it's a 'no brainer' that prohibiting lane sharing/spliting/filtering by motorcycles must reduce accidents. Maybe the practice should be baned in Europe?

Why? Only when the cagers are not aware of their responsibilities... which ALSO comes down to a lack of education, skills and rules

My point actually had nothing to do with lane sharing per se, rather just that anything can be a 'no brainer' to anybody, depending on point of view.

[Francois_Dumas]

Oh, sorry

[Quinn]

In Atlanta about 1967, I don't remember needing anything other than a driver's license. I bought a 250 Sprint on one side of town and learned to ride it by getting it home. Luckily, I was young, dumb, and immortal; I survived. Several years and two other bikes later, I had to take a test when I got a Yamaha 650. Probably in 1974. I took a written test and then went out and drove the car course. It was an artificial road course and the instructor watched from an overlook. I failed because I put my foot out while doing a U-turn. I thought I was just being cautious and showing that I was careful. He said it showed that I didn't have control or confidence. My foot didn't touch down, but it was off the peg and ready; I failed. Next week, knowing the rules of the game,I took it again and passed. I didn't have to parallel park the bike, but the rest of the driving test was identical to the auto.

[PT Steve]

In Washington in 1969 (first year a bike endorsment was required), the test was basically the same as today. It involved weaving around cones, stoping on a line, a 90 deg turn (about 5' wide),a panic stop and some other stuff. Hitting a cone or going down sent you home. All of these things were laid out so you did them in sequence. No stopping and setting up in the middle of the course and no feet down once started.

 

Today, they've added another wrinkle. If you complete the course in a 500cc bike. that's the biggest thing you get to ride. There are classes of bikes (I think 150, 500, and unlimited). If you take the test on a 250, you can ride up to a 500.

 

It was a fairly complete test for 1969. Today, I don't know how it stacks up to other states.

[k75duck]

Today, they've added another wrinkle. If you complete the course in a 500cc bike. that's the biggest thing you get to ride. There are classes of bikes (I think 150, 500, and unlimited). If you take the test on a 250, you can ride up to a 500.

 

It was a fairly complete test for 1969. Today, I don't know how it stacks up to other states.

 

FYI: I'm pretty sure that they got rid of that and everyone now gets the same motorcycle endorsement regardless of bike size. However, as of two or three years ago, there's now a different endorsement that's required for a sidecar or trike. Not sure how that differs as I'm strictly a two-wheeled guy.

[Gary in Aus]

In Coonamble {find that on on a map}, the nearest motor registry office to where I grew up, in 1973 I had to start kawasaki KDX 175 {?} , pull away from the gutter , ride about 50 metres down the road, do a u-turn , ride about a hundred metres and do another u-turn and ride back to the instructor and park. He stood on the footpath and watched .

 

This licence allowed me to ride any size motorcycle as fast as the speed limits would allow and I have not been retested since other than a 5 yearly eye test when licence is up for renewal.

 

This has changed dramatically with pre licence lessons, size restrictions, speed restrictions etc.

 

Over 45/50 riders are now a major statistic in motorcycle deaths and injuries.

 

I wonder why?

 

In 1973 you could obtain your drivers licence at the age of 17. We were away for summer holidays and my birthday is in January.On the Gold Coast and my father bought a new prime mover {semi trailer tractor} for the farm and we had to get it the 600 kilometres back to the farm ,so he rang our local policeman in Coonamble who posted me my licence and I drove the truck home. Never had to sit the required test.

[flars]

Alexandria VA, 1973. I had to bring the bike to the side of the DMV building (if you didn't already have an endorsement, you had to have someone else bring it there). Start the bike, ride to the end of the building, signal, turn right. Continue to the end of the building, signal, turn right. Continue to the end of the building, signal, turn right. Park the bike.

One guy failed because he dropped his (loaner) bike when he tried to park it .