Speed Bleeders- Concerns, comments, considerations & tips

[Cali Kid]

I just did the brake and clutch bleeds on my '02RT. I encountered some things that I had not found posted on the board in regards to Speed Bleeders. In KMG_365's (Jamie) photo walk-thru 1150's brakes can't stop Mama Hoon he suggests SB's. I was curious to know if my questions had come up before. He told me that some of this information has been discussed in other posts, or at Techdays. Tech Days are few and far between for me, and I never did find much of this in another post, so I hope this info will be helpful to those considering the Speed Bleeders.

And as requested

I would love to see any corrections/cautions/additions/tips/tricks to add to this tome for the benefit of us all! For instance:

You got it.

When I ordered the SB's and opted to get the long ones (SB7100) as had been suggested by KMG_365 for the ABS modulator (qty. 4). I also ordered SB's for wheel calipers and clutch. Today I began bleeding. I started with the front wheel control circuit, and all went smoothly. The rear control circuit was another story. I began bleeding position "1" and got a lot of air. I went thru about 3 resevoirs full before I decided to go on to #2 & #3. Back at #1 again I still got air. I started looking for leaks, but the system looked dry as a bone. The only access to the system was the SB. I discovered several things.

 

1. The folks at SB didn't apply sealant all the way down the threads. Fully installed the sealant did engage (not by much). When I opened the SB 1/4 to 1/2 turn it allowed air to be drawn in around the threads, hence the air I was seeing. It took about 7 resevoirs full to get all the air out.

 

2. I found that the beveled end of the SB is longer than the stock so there is less thread engagement, which made the application of sealant more crucial. See Below

 

3. Less engagement could be a concern when considering torques. With less thread engagement there is less margin for error if you over torque them. If you look at the pic you'll see that the difference is only 1mm. That equates to 1 turn. This seems trivial, but there are only 5 turns with the stock bleeders before they seat. Remove one and you have 20% less thread. I believe it reduces your margin of error if you over tighten the SB's (I know this is all very anal ). I might add that I have found no torque spec for the bleeders on the ABS modulator. I tightened mine very carefully, by hand. Personally I don't think "torqueing" is necessary anyhoo, unless your really uncomfortable about the right amount of "hand tight".

 

Lastly, in regards to the longer SB's (SB7100). I found this to be marginally helpful. There was a little advantage to using them (longer nipples). Order the shorter size (SB7100S) and there would be no problem. In fact the SB7100 might work just fine in the #3 position (long, vertical bleeder), it seems long enough. The pics below give an idea of how long they are.

Compare those to Jamies pic HERE

 

The best tip is to remove the connectors. With these out of the way the bleeders are very easy to access, as you can see.

 

All in all, using the SB's is a very good idea.

 

A word about the clutch SB (1010s)-

Having recognized the difference in SB's from stock I took particular note when installing the SB in the clutch bleed fitting. I considered leaving the SB in place, but there is only ONE turn of thread engagement before the SB seats itself. I checked carefully 'cause I thought I was wrong the first time. But screw the SB all the way in and then back it out, and at one turn, POP, out she comes. Certainly, there is a high risk of stripping something if you try to tighten it in place and leave it. Seems to me that I would not be able to tighten it enough to feel secure about leaving it there. I suppose the worst thing that happens is that it comes out and the check ball keeps fluid in, but if left unnoticed you might get leak.

Secondly, only one thread of engagement means that it is necessary to have sealant to the very end of the threads for the SB to work properly. Otherwise, you'll get air, as I did in the previous description. I opted to reinstall the grub screw.

 

Tip: The check ball in the clutch bleed fitting is spring loaded. The SB is pointed. Filing the point (not too much) off the SB makes it easier to install. Here's what I mean

 

Here's a tip if you use the "mini-stan" - put a small tube like the ones you find on a can of WD-40 down the center of the "mini", such that it protrudes just slightly beyond the bottom of the threaded area. The tube lets the air out of the resevoir, and fluid flows in much quicker. I waited while the fluid dripped into the resevoir on the first fill. I wanted to know I had sufficient fluid in the resevoir before I started pumping. This will eleviate the waiting.

Pic of my mini-stan

Trivia question: What did I use for the cap on my mini-stan?

 

Hope all this assists someone, I'm tired

[russell_bynum]

Great info!!!

[rozemab]

"....cap"

 

It looks like a rubber plug that was modified...?

[steve.foote]

Good job Rick. You're adding to the universe of knowledge.

[BMWRich58]

In my opinion,you should only use or "need" the speed bleeders when bleeding the "caliper portion" of the brake system.

 

The "Wheel Control Circuit" is physically within arms reach,where you can open and close by hand these bleed screws with a wrench as you operate the brake lever or rear foot pedal.

 

The "speed bleeders" help allowing you to do this "brake bleeding technique" by yourself,because you litterally can't stretch or reach far enough to the front or rear of the bike and "open" the caliper bleed screws manually,while trying to operate the levers to pump the old fluid out.

 

I also noticed that the funnel/reservoir you made looks rather small and hard to detect the fluid level without looking directly down in the funnel.

As you yourself now know, while bleeding the "control pump", the fluid pumps very rapidly and can drain the brake fluid reservoir in the blink of an eye!!! Air is now introduced into the brake system, "Oh $h!T" !!!!

With the factory BMW "see through,large quanity" funnel reservoir, this problem is pretty much absent. Makes this job very easy!!

 

Yeah,I know it's ridiculous the price you pay for this "plastic" funnel/tool,but after one brake bleed the tool is paid for!! Heck,get a couple friends to chip in together, and it's even more cost effective....

 

 

[Ken H.]

Rick,

 

Great info. Having been through doing this on several '02s myself, you are spot on.

 

Regarding the air in rear #1. It seems to be very common, several of us have noticed it. I don't think it is introduced via the speedbleeders, that circuit just seems to be very low "as is."

 

I love your idea of the air tube in the funnel!

 

We have all concluded the same thing about filing the tip off of the clutch bleeder. Big important to keep from stripping that one.

 

Good job! They feel much better now don't they!?!

 

Cheers!

[Ted]

I, for one, did have the misfortune of over torquing my rear caliper bleeder a couple of years ago. They are particularly thin and easily broken - sent the machined insert to their home office and the broken piece was removed and replaced without charge. But, be VERY careful when you tighten these little boogers.

[Stan Compton]

Rick,

 

1. I’m still not quite clear about how you solved the problem of getting rid of the air in rear #1. Did you put additional sealant on the Speed Bleeder to get it to seal completely or did you just keep bleeding (I think you said 7 reservoirs) until there was no more air present?

 

2. If I read your post correctly, you are recommending SB7100S Speed Bleeders for rear #1, rear #2, front #1, front #2, and SB7100 Speed Bleeders for rear #3, front #3. Is this correct?

 

3. Although you had no need to mention this in your post, I believe Jamie said he used SB8125L Speed Bleeders for the front calipers, an SB6100 Speed Bleeder for the rear caliper, and an SB1010S Speed Bleeder for the clutch. Are these what you used?

 

Thank you for your excellent post. It really helped me and I’m sure it helped a lot of the other DIY people on the board. Good job, Rick.

 

[Ken H.]

Rick,

 

1. I’m still not quite clear about how you solved the problem of getting rid of the air in rear #1. Did you put additional sealant on the Speed Bleeder to get it to seal completely or did you just keep bleeding (I think you said 7 reservoirs) until there was no more air present?

I'm not Rick, but... on the ones we've done we just ran enough DOT4 into it until we had it coming out of the #1 bleeder.

 

Again, think it is more of an issue of for some reason that circuit does not come "full" from the factory. If it was a result of the bleeder letting air in, where did the fluid go that was in the space now occupied by then air? (When you first crack this circuit open.)

[Cali Kid]

Stan, to answer your question(s)

1. I’m still not quite clear about how you solved the problem of getting rid of the air in rear #1. Did you put additional sealant on the Speed Bleeder to get it to seal completely or did you just keep bleeding (I think you said 7 reservoirs) until there was no more air present?

I did two things. I removed the SB and applied a paste type, teflon thread sealant (white) that I have used frequently on aircraft fuel systems. Subsequently...since I still had air ("small" bubbles) I chose to bleed the #1 (rear control circuit)in a conventional fashion...squeeze, twist, bleed, twist, squeeze, twist, bleed, twist, and we did the hokey pok...sorry

In regards to the 7 resevoirs. It did take alot of bleeding to reach a point I was satisfied with. I might add that I was still seeing trace amounts of bubbles when I stopped.I don't know why this was so difficult. But #2 & #3 were clear.

 

2. If I read your post correctly, you are recommending SB7100S Speed Bleeders for rear #1, rear #2, front #1, front #2, and SB7100 Speed Bleeders for rear #3, front #3. Is this correct?

Well..yes and no. If you ask kmg_365, he'll tell you that he was happy with the SB7100 in the #1, #2 positions. It is just my opinion that the longer ones (SB7100) are a minimal amount of added convenience. If the was any hesitation about the long ones, don't worry, SB7100S will work great also. Main thing is, remove the connectors and access is easy.

The SB7100 (again opinion) is quite a bit longer than stock. I do believe that if one wanted SB's in the #3 position these would work fine.

 

3. Although you had no need to mention this in your post, I believe Jamie said he used SB8125L Speed Bleeders for the front calipers, an SB6100 Speed Bleeder for the rear caliper, and an SB1010S Speed Bleeder for the clutch. Are these what you used?

 

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! It was jamie's post that I acquired the #'s from.

 

Additional note:

I spoke with Mike at speed bleeder the other day about torques. Speed Bleeders are made from a soft (read not hardened) material that are meant to strip first. I understood him to mean that the SB will probably strip first in any case, even aluminum. A hopeful thought

 

Thanx for the Thanx, now I understand how much work it was for Jamie to put together the walk-thru's.

[Cali Kid]

Ken if I understand your comment...

If it was a result of the bleeder letting air in, where did the fluid go that was in the space now occupied by then air?

the fluid was being drawn back into the brake cylinder when the brake was released. Air enterd around the threads. Remember that there would normally be pressure in the system prior to releasing the brake. But with no pressure, and lost volume (bleeding), the brake cylinder creates a vacuum as it is released...sucking air in this case.

[Rich06FJR1300]

I tried bleeding the clutch the other night with the SB1010S....no luck. Is there anyway I can just get a stock bleeder screw to fit where the grub screw is?

 

Rich

[Ken H.]

Two alternatives - a) Grind down the tip of the Speed Bleeder until it will start threading. About 3/32" should do it. b) Remove the factory check valve assembly off the end of the bleeder hose all together, then install the Speed Bleeder.

 

Good luck!

[oldvic]

This similar thread was posted last week....

 

 

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This last weekend was a rainy/windy weekend. A perfect time to perform my first brake/clutch bleed. The last few weeks I have been gathering the necessary components to do the job right ...and hopefully trouble-free. I ordered 10 speed bleeders to replace BMW's bleeders. I ordered the Mini-stan, picked up 4 12oz. bottles of DOT 4 brake fluid, fabricated the wooden spacers for the front/rear brake calipers and down-loaded various articles from the internet explaining how to bleed my '03 RT's ABS.

 

Being the first time, I was slow, read and re-read every step of instructions provided from this forum. Everything went as hoped except for the speed bleeders.

 

1. The speedbleeder for the clutch, even when filing down the tip, still didn't have adequate threads to seal properly and was difficult to stop the leaking and air introduction while bleeding the fluid.

 

2. One of the speedbleeders did not work internally as advertised. The spring/ball was stuck closed and no amount of turning the bleeder open or closed worked.

 

3. Two of the speed bleeders would not seat closed properly on the ABS unit and weeped fluid, even when tightened forcefully .... so I replaced them with the stock BMW bleeders.

 

4. The thread sealant on some of the speed bleeders did not adequately cover the amount of thread needed to maintain a seal while bleeding.

 

Lesson learned .... these speed bleeders are designed for automotive use and the tapered tips do not exactly match the taper needed on my '03 RT. 6 of the 10 speed bleeders worked well .... 4 were less than satisfactory. The next time I am due to flush the fluid, I'll replace the remaining speed bleeders with the original stock bleeders. It may take alittle more time to use the originals to do the job, but at least they will work as designed.

[steveknapp]

Is there anyway I can just get a stock bleeder screw to fit where the grub screw is?

 

There is a BMW part for the bleed screw that isn't a speed bleeder. It's fit, IMHO, is pretty craptastic too.

 

Remove the check valve assembly. It's easy, be VERY careful not to let the hose end turn. Hold the hose with a good wrench and turn the check-valve with a pair of vise grips or the like.

 

Thread the SB into the hole. Tighten to close, turn a bit to open, it's amazingly normal. No mods needed that I've seen.

[DBG]

I installed speed bleeders on the front and rear calipers during the bleeding operation. The control circuit was easy to do without the speed bleeders, so I didn't bother. I had no trouble with the bleeder on the clutch. It only threaded in a couple of turns, but worked fine. I was real careful torqueing the screws to 7 nm, so as not to break one. No bad experiences from this user. DBG

[Albion]

I'm looking at doing a general DOT4 change for the first time on all circuits, to keep my 02 RT1150RT rockin', and have read this thread —and the historical stuff — with great interest. Brilliant.

 

On a practical note, as far as I can establish, SpeedBleeders do not seem to be available here in the UK, and reading what you say, they seem to be a mixed blessing, and not critical to the operation. Anyhow, seems as though I'll be doing the job without.

 

One question — the guidance for building the Rosemab MiniStan is to use a McMaster-Carr funnel. Again, not something available here.

 

Clearly this particular funnel is not critical, but would be useful to use your assembled wisdom to help me source an equivalent, and eliminate the trial-and-error stage. Can someone please advise what the broad spec is for this, what's its size (diameter of top, say), what sort of plastic is it? I guess that for it to weld onto the 90 88 6 342 541 cap, polyethlyene won't do the trick, as nothing seems to adhere to that material.

 

Your advice will be much appreciated.

[Ken H.]

Can someone please advise what the broad spec is for this, what's its size (diameter of top, say), what sort of plastic is it?

Here's a picture of mine in use. The specifics of it are not particular. Clear is a big help. It's attached to the "top" (cap) with epoxy. A brand you hear referenced in the US a lot is "JB Weld," but any will do. Obviously the neck needs to be small enough to pass through the drilled out cap. The neck of mine is about 10 MM outside diameter and the top about 100 MM.

 

 

Hope this helps!

[Albion]

Got the idea now. Most helpful, and thanks for that.