Why not a CB for B2B comm.? huh!? Why?

[sundance]

Posted this on bmw lux. touring site. Figured I ask y'all.

 

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I'm looking for a bike to bike commuinications system for me and my wife.

 

I saw this on another thread.http://www.jmcorp.com/SeeProducts.asp?PF=24. Looks sweet!

 

 

So apart from the " But I cant run my cell phone through it" Which quite honestly bewilders the hell out of me. Cell phone?...On a motorcycle? WHY?! I mean, I take mine with me but I dont need wired to my head. Whoever is calling CAN WAIT!

 

No disrespect...I understand if your a heart surgeon on call and need to return immediately cause Dick Cheney needs another bypass; or maybe your carrying one of those secret nuclear brief cases and your being contacted by the pentagon to detonate it right where you are on RT.50 in WV, for National Security reasons, Hey...what do you carry in your vario's?

 

Okay..sincerely I didnt mean to offend you cell phone carrying riders, whatever you need to do, just having fun with my lack of understanding about it, I ride to get away from all of that, at least for a little while.

 

So...I digress...I dont need replies about why you need cell phone capabilities, please, in the back of the 10% of my brain I use, I know why.

 

So that leaves me 9% to ponder this:

 

Check out the CB in the above link;seems sweet! What I dont understand is: why is it when someone posts a question about B2B communciations you dont see more recommendations for CB's? CB's are great inexpensive, reliable communication devices.

 

Knowing what I know about CB's, since I am a truck driver;

 

Advantages: You have 40 channels! They can be very private, choose any channel besides 19.

 

You can adjust the squelch or RF gain, whatever the capability, and it will eliminate or minimize any noise or signals beyond your immediate vicinity. And Really, out of 40 availiable channels, what are the chances we are going to run into someone else on our channel? If they are...simple enough to change channels or say "hello" to your passing friends.

 

CB's are very reliable, and easy to fix. CB's shops can be found quite easily. They can also be internally boosted by your local CB wizard to increase your output, giving you a stronger signal. Its a cheap thing to do that enhances performance.

 

In the event something happens, go to channel 19 and you have the world at your fingertips; surely you will find help.

 

The antenna, mounting of this system seems so user freindly. IMO..better than attaching a chatterbox to the side of my helmet or somehow securing it to my tankbag or handlebars. That looks so "Not right" to me.

 

Okay....so I ask this cause I keep thinking I need to go with the Kenwoods GMRS or FRS or whatever. However, that system is expensive when you take the autocoms into consideration. Hey...check out that J&M CB!!! I can hook a satellite radio up to it...or a GPS. Okay..that gives you cell phone riders ammo now.

 

Sooo....Please....I need guidance. Am I missing something here? What is the advantage of a GMRS or FRS radio over a CB?

 

Phew!...yeah...that was long winded. If you made it to here...your a patient fella. Thank-you!

 

07'GS-mine

05'ST-hers

[Mr_Ed]

I'm sure a HAM will give you a complete reply...I'll just give you mine (and it will sound lame).... it all comes down to who you want to talk to. You'll find more riders on FRS and GMRS radios but far fewer on CB. Personally I'm happy with my GMRS setup...at no time have I wished to be on the CB bands.

[LMorley]

There is really nothing wrong with CB. I bought one because my riding partner has a CB built into his Goldwing. It does seems that FRS/GMRS is more popular with BMW riders. So I agree with Ed, it depends on the group of riders you will usually ride with. I am thinking of getting a FRS/GMRS radio to have the flexability of both.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Nothing realy wrong with CB. Tends to be old technology (AM) and kinda splashy in sound quality and reception. FRS or GMRS are FM and much cleaner, especially in the side bands that most use. The real key to good reception/broadcast lies in the antenna and there the more modern radios operating in the higher frequency spectrum have a distinct advantage. If you are within 100 yards of each other it really doesn't mean much but, sometimes riders tend to string out a bit, especially in the twisties and the better signal offered by the FRS/GMRS stuff is a big bonus there. If you really want to get into the communicator mode, 2 meter is the way to go. There is a minor hassle in getting the license but it isn't really too hard. Then you can take advantage of things like repeaters and phone patches and pretty much handle any communication need you might have.

[randy]

I think the main reason is, until recently, most communication devices (i.e. see autocomm) did not work well with a CB radio. Not sure of the technical reason. Now most riders have GMRS or the older FRS, so it just stays that way do to the investment already made.

[OoPEZoO]

I'm in the same boat as you. I use a J&M CB setup and absolutely love it. I tend to travel with Harleys and Goldwings that all have CB setups. I use the AUX input for my mounted Sirius Sat reciever or pocketed MP3 player (depending on the weather). More importantly, I use the CB all the time on my daily commute to find out about accidents and delays. That way I can get off the highway and detour around the problems. So I'm with ya......I definitly prefer the CB setup. Also, I would never in a million years want my cell phone hooked up to my intercom.

[Tommy_Boy]

Are there commonly used channels on the FRS/GMRS radios like there are on CB? You know, channel 9 for emergency, channel 19 for road chatter, etc.

[Rob]

Since I ride with a couple of Gold Wingers, CB was the choice for me. I went with the J&M handle bar mounted unit. I've had it on my last three bikes. I also pipe a XM, V-1 and GPS into the system with a Mixit.

 

Nice set up. It just works.

 

Best,

[Rocket_Cowboy]

I think it might be my post that you're referring to from over on the LT site, so I'll add some background.

 

First off ... on my previous bike (Honda ST1300), I had done an Autocom install, allowing me to run both FRS or CB ... depending on who I was riding with. When riding solo (95% of my riding), CB works best, as I can talk with truckers etc. However, CB has been the most problematic to add on the Honda, as working through ground plane issues with the antenna, or getting a NGP antenna installed/bracket fabricated, working through power issues with the CB and eliminating ground loops and noisy power, etc. Using the Garmin to power an FRS radio was a piece of cake ... everything there is already well put together.

 

I do prefer CB, mostly because I do tend to ride solo, and so was looking for an easier install on the RT.

 

Now ... I do need cell phone connectivity to my intercom. It's not that "staying connected" thing ... I'm not taking work calls while I'm out on the bike. I have a separate phone number for use on the bike. But when doing all my solo riding, it's helpful when I can call home or have them call me, just to make sure things are going ok and everything's still on track. It's a simple piece of mind thing for the family still at home. The majority of the time, the phone is quiet, but it's nice to be able to pick up text msgs from home, or the phone call when someone wakes up at home with that bad feeling that something isn't going well on my ride. It's a trade off I made to be able to stay out on the road, but yes, in general I'm out on the road and riding solo because I *want* to get away from everyone.

 

Overall, I think I'm going to be able to take some pieces from the BMW/J&M kit, and make the Autocom system work better on the RT than it ever did on the ST. It's a work in progress, but I'll post up how it goes.

[CoarsegoldKid]

What is a FRS / GMRS? Boy am I outta touch. I used to ride with Wingers and we all had CBs. I had a J&M on my Concours. It worked great. But spark plug noise and ground issues do cause problems so I can understand trying to use something else. Using a hand held CB wired to an autocomm sounds like an easy thing to do. I hope to hear more on this thread.

[sundance]

I think it might be my post that you're referring to from over on the LT site, so I'll add some background.

 

I've been ousted!!!

 

No harm, friend...just ranting...you know.

 

By the way...I carry a cell phone, but I keep it in my tank bag. Anybody calling me while I'm riding can wait till I stop. It's usually just not that important to have to be connected to it. But,then again, my wife is with me, my kids are grown, and the pentagon wont let me carry those secret nuclear bombs in my 'varios' anymore.... Ever since the "incident"....those guys have no sense of humor.

 

Mostly, it just spawned my curiousity about the CB. I have been lead to believe that GMRS/FRS was the way to go since that is what always appears when people ask about B2B comm systems. But I see now that many riders use a CB.

 

I guess it comes down to what y'all said. "What the people I ride with have". Well, my primary freind will be my wife, so we are okay there with a CB. Another freind I ride with has a CB...cool. Another doesnt have anything;and prolly wont till HD makes one in chrome.

 

I suppose its luck o' the draw if I ride with anyone else.

 

But 99.99 % of the time...it'll just be my wife and I so thats all that matters.

 

So hey...is there a BMW riders channel by any chance?

 

 

 

07'R1200GS

05'R1200ST

[UberXY]

Now ... I do need cell phone connectivity to my intercom. It's not that "staying connected" thing ... I'm not taking work calls while I'm out on the bike. I have a separate phone number for use on the bike. But when doing all my solo riding, it's helpful when I can call home or have them call me, just to make sure things are going ok and everything's still on track. It's a simple piece of mind thing for the family still at home. The majority of the time, the phone is quiet, but it's nice to be able to pick up text msgs from home, or the phone call when someone wakes up at home with that bad feeling that something isn't going well on my ride. It's a trade off I made to be able to stay out on the road, but yes, in general I'm out on the road and riding solo because I *want* to get away from everyone.

 

 

Amen to that. I have a cell number for the bike that only my wife knows. She thinks cell phones and bikes are a bad idea, so on the rare times the Autcomm answers the phone, I know who it is, and that it is important. The local cell company only charges $10/mo for extra numbers.

[Rocket_Cowboy]

I've been ousted!!!

 

No harm, friend...just ranting...you know.

 

No worries.

 

Just providing some insight into my circumstances, and doing it over here because it's such a friendly place.

 

I thought I had read somewhere that Goldwing riders tended to hang out on channel 1, and that there was a channel where LT riders tended to hang out ... but for the life of me I can't figure out where that email went or what channel it was.

[Yankee_Dog]

I have a CB that I use on my RT that works great. I chose it for a couple of reason. When riding solo I like to listen to the truckers. Sometimes for the intertainment and sometimes for the traffic information they can provide. The other reason is the other folks in my riding group use CBs.

 

I think CBs have the best range and the worst sound quality. They are also the most expensive. I did a test with a couple of handhelds. Both were Cobra brand, one a CB and the other FRS something or other. The FRS was crystal clear, but the range was only a few city blocks. The CB on the other hand can reach out a few miles but you do have to deal with more static.

 

An attenna is the most important part of your system. With most CBs, even the handheld variety it is easy to attach a real antenna as apposed to the dummy handhelds usually come with. With the FRS type I am not sure were you would go to get the correct attenna. I suppose you could fabricate your own but I am not enough of a radio buff to know how.

 

You dont need a NGP antenna on a motorcycle. You just have to get the antenna properly gounded to the frame. Most luggage racks will not work for this. You need to run a copper wire from your antenna to the actual frame of the bike.

 

The cell phone issue is the same with either a CB or FRS. It is a plug and play for most of the intercom systems that I know.

 

Yankee Dog

[James_H]

As others have said the choice is generally based on what the riders in the group use. CB is AM and is older technology. It has an advantage in that you can communicate easily outside of the group you are riding in. Truckers and others on the open road don’t generally mind sharing information and it is a help to know what might be ahead.

 

For me, I chose CB because the group of guys I ride with have CB on their bikes from the factory.

 

Early this year I purchased an Autocom system and I was looking for a CB to interface with that system. The choices in this area are few. I wanted something small, designed to be used on the bike, and reliable. I found the J&M unit. It was small, lightweight and the way it mounted was acceptable. Also the push to talk lever was easy to use.

 

The problem is that while Autocom sells many cables to interface with FRS/GMRS it did not sell an cable to interface with the J&M CB. I contacted J&M and they were not help at all.

 

Why not use the J&M as a com unit? A couple of reasons. First, their headsets are out of sight price wise. Second, their intercom, from what I have read on this forum, is always open. After using the VOX operated intercom as implemented by Autcom, I did not want to go to an open mike system.

 

The Autocom also offered far more options as to what you can connect. It is a very reliable unit and the audio is clear.

 

So, the challenge was to interface the J&M CB to the Autocom five pin bike to bike connector. I finally figured out the wiring with some help from the guys on this forum.

 

Last week, I finally got a CB radio to do some sound checks on the J&M CB to Autocom connection.

 

The results today have been somewhat inconclusive. I have not had a second party available to determine if the audio quality from the CB on transmit is good enough. I have wired the system up, verified that the push to talk works, audio from the J&M to the Autocom is good. I just need to make sure the audio out of the Autocom is enough to drive the J&M transmitter. (I was using a pair of headphones hooked to a small Uniden scanner to check the audio. It’s just hard to determine if the audio level is high enough when you are talking to yourself) I believe that it is and it appears that all you need to do is to wire an appropriate five pin DIN connector to the J&M connector. You loose the stereo output of the J&M but if all you want is the CB and the weather, you can loose one channel of sound.

 

I should have that sorted out in another week or so.

 

If you would like more information, I’ll be happy to share what I have learned to day.

 

Jim

[Rocket_Cowboy]

If you would like more information, I’ll be happy to share what I have learned to day.

 

I would love to hear more about what you've learned ... specifically the interface cable you're using between the Autocom and the J&M.

 

I've been debating just trying to use the J&M/BMW antenna splitter so that I can tie a Midland handheld CB into the factory antenna, and then connect it back to the Autocom. The problem I've had with the Autocom has been simply with bike powering the CB ... I always end up with ground loop or other problems causing bad feedback through the headsets. Since I wear in-ear speakers ... feedback is down right painful.

 

Anyway ... sounds like I'm trying to do what you might have just figured out, so definitely interested in the knowledge transfer.

[James_H]

would love to hear more about what you've learned ... specifically the interface cable you're using between the Autocom and the J&M.

.

 

I’ll be happy to share what I have found out. I intend to do a final check tonight and see what the audio sounds like from the J&M unit.

 

As I said, if things work as I envision, all that would need to be done to make the interface is to make a cable, five pin DIN 60 degree, for connection to the Autocom and then attach a mating connector for the J&M CB.

 

As of this date, Push To Talk works, Autocom to CB and the audio out works, just have to verify the audio level is high enough and the work is finished. The Autocom PTT interface cable would work with the system also.

 

I suppose you could use another input on the Autocom and get Stereo into the system if you wanted but all I need at present is to get the Autocom to drive the J&M for transmit.

 

I’ll have the pin to pin wiring along with the color code for the J&M wires.

 

Jim

[E30TECH]

Break One-Nine...

 

It was asked twice in this thread but never got answered (that I saw).

 

Are there 'BMW' rider channels for CB and FRS/GMRS? I have the Kenwood FRS/GMRS.

 

Thanks good buddy

[Rob]

On the hwy I monitor 19, off the slab, it's 10.

 

HTH,

[Doppelganger]

You may want to listen a while to get a hold of the language on CB. Just as English evolves, so have the expressions used on the air.

 

Last time I was on, 'good buddy' was not what it used to be...

[E30TECH]

You may want to listen a while to get a hold of the language on CB. Just as English evolves, so have the expressions used on the air.

 

Last time I was on, 'good buddy' was not what it used to be...

 

LOFL...I was being somewhat sarcastic. I used to have a CB in all of my cars. I know the lingo, its been a 10 years, but I know it.

 

But I'm not sure what good buddy means now

 

'scuse me while I go dig my Midland and K40 out of the garage

[Doppelganger]

Good...I wasn't sure, so I thought I'd drop my two cents.

 

I had always enjoyed using a CB while I drove a straight truck as a local driver. I can confirm the the sound quality will be less at times. The other concern is distance. The majority will rapidly lose effectiveness is as little as 4-5 miles, especially in hilly terrain.

They can be excellent for traffic, and sometimes for directions, or other 'local information'.

[sundance]

You may want to listen a while to get a hold of the language on CB. Just as English evolves, so have the expressions used on the air.

 

Last time I was on, 'good buddy' was not what it used to be...

 

 

But I'm not sure what good buddy means now

 

 

Uhm...good buddies tend to hang out in pickle parks, truck stops, where ever. You'll hear them occasionally in certain areas, and they always want you to go to another channel...then who knows what.

Good buddy...come ON!?

 

When a trucker refers to someone as a Good Buddy...Its not meant to be compliment. Although...its done in jest alot of times.

[E30TECH]

You may want to listen a while to get a hold of the language on CB. Just as English evolves, so have the expressions used on the air.

 

Last time I was on, 'good buddy' was not what it used to be...

 

 

But I'm not sure what good buddy means now

 

 

Uhm...good buddies tend to hang out in pickle parks, truck stops, where ever. You'll hear them occasionally in certain areas, and they always want you to go to another channel...then who knows what.

Good buddy...come ON!?

 

When a trucker refers to someone as a Good Buddy...Its not meant to be compliment. Although...its done in jest alot of times.

I dont know about no pickle park, but there is a lollipop lane around here. I guess I didn't know thats what it meant. Thanks for thaking the last little bit of innocence that I had left.

 

Good buddy...come ON!?

 

Dont come on me if thats what it means...... Good Buddy

[ElJefe]

James - I know I'm replying to an old post, but how did the J&M CB to Autocomm cable work out? Would love to have the pinout - that sounds like the perfect solution.

 

Thanks

[Heck]

What is a FRS / GMRS? Boy am I outta touch. I used to ride with Wingers and we all had CBs. I had a J&M on my Concours. It worked great. But spark plug noise and ground issues do cause problems so I can understand trying to use something else. Using a hand held CB wired to an autocomm sounds like an easy thing to do. I hope to hear more on this thread.

 

 

 

PM Sent'

[mikef97]

James - I would also be very interested in the outcome of your JMCB to Autocom connection. Photos, diagrams, anything you have. And thanks for plowing this ground.

[Twisties]

We use the Midland FRS/GMRS. Riding with the radio in the tailspace, FRS has a real range of about half a mile to a mile, depending. Might be longer in a tank bag.

 

You are supposed to have license to use the GMRS channels, but you can get very good range with them. I haven't had the need to try them as the FRS works, but we are talking ten times more power output on GMRS, claimed ranges are about 20 miles. Midland packages with 125 privacy channels per channel. We've never even heard a squawk from anyone else. Additionally you can set up various group features. The units have autosquelch.

 

Midland sells a pair of radios for anywhere from $40 to $85. Motorcycle headsets packaged with a push to talk (PTT) are another $40 each. We have the midland radios and the sound quality is good, but we run through an integrator so do not use the midland headset and ptt. So far as I know the midland setup is the cheapest way to get b2b. Only thing to install is PTT button. No antenna to install, no outward sign of the system on the bike.

 

I was told that the BMW CB system had issues.

 

Jan

[Mudman]

What issues are you talking about?

 

I have the BMW setup and it was a perfect plug and play setup. I have the CB, XM, and GPS all integrated with no issues. I don't have a detector but it will accommodate an addition warning device. All the wiring is factory matched and looks like it belongs. Installation was straight forward with decent instructions.

 

I have had this setup for over a year and 16000 miles with no issues. All the hardware is made by J&M and past experience with them has proven very reliable. BTW J&M is very customer oriented and will handle warranty issues with a no hassle policy.

 

I am not saying your system is bad or inferior, but to be dismissive of J&M as an alternative doesn't speak to objectivity. I have two other riding partners with the J&M 2003 CB system that are pleased with their units as well.

 

Just another data point for those reading along considering the options

[Twisties]

What issues are you talking about?

 

We looked on this forum and the LT forum when researching systems. There were a number of threads regarding the BMW stock systems not working well particularly on the LT forum, and asking when BMW would get the problems resolved, and opining that HD had CB worked out, but BMW did not.

 

I don't claim it's a fact, since I've never seen BMW's much less tried it, I simply said, regarding our choice, we had been told that BMW stock systems had issues.

 

but to be dismissive of J&M as an alternative doesn't speak to objectivity

 

I never mentioned J&M, and am aware that J&M is well respected. I am in no way dismissive of J&M. We considered J&M but rejected them for complexity, price, and installation issues. I had no idea the BMW system is related to J&M's. Why would anyone pay $1300 for BMW's when they could get a J&M for much less than half that? I guess the wiring/installation might be nicer. Anyway, I'm not going to look up all those LT threads and post links. They're out there, I didn't make them up.

 

Glad you enjoy yours and that it works for you. I've nothing against CB.

 

Peace!

[Mudman]

Yes the BMW system is outsourced to J&M and yes it is a pricey option compared to going straight to J&M. One should consider it includes the integrator module that allows more inputs than the standard J&M CB 2003. It also includes all the extras like bike specific wire harness and power distribution to all the inputs eliminating ground loops and Can Bus supply issues. Also included is the PTT set up, surface mounted helmet cord sockets, and wiring to integrate into and radio antenna and radio if you have that option. Considering all of this (plus BMW mark-up) I can see where the cost got as high as it is. I have done two installations, one with J&M parts and the other with the BMW kit. The BMW kit was a bit cleaner and easier to install, but the J&M sourced install is working fine too.

 

I apologize for being harsh in my response to you, this kind of stuff isn't worth getting upset about. Such is the problem with the written word as opposed to verbal conversation.