Brake bleed

[Urban Surfer]

I always have a tought time bleeding the ABS modulator. It's so difficult to get at those bleed screws with any kind of wrench. What tool is available to make the job easier.

[keithb]

I just use the correct open end wrench. Speedbleeders certainly makes the opening and closing of the bleeder valve much easier because you only have to open the valve about 1/4-1/2 turn. It has a check valve in the bleeder so air cannot get back into the system. Sure makes bleeding brakes a heckuva lot easier. Go to www.speedbleeders.com and check the product out. I hope this helps.

[Urban Surfer]

Do you remove any thing of that modulator when you do it?

[keithb]

The speedbleeders have nothing to do with the modulator. They replace the existing bleeder valve that is located on the brake caliper. Are you trying to the brake bleed on the servo assisted brakes?

[Urban Surfer]

The brake calipers I find easy. It's the controll circuits that I find difficult. I have done them four times. I was just hoping there was a better tool to get at those bleed screws.

[keithb]

OK. Now I know what you are talking about. Jamie Edmonds (KMG_365) made some cool ones for getting in there. Get the size wrench you need (can't remember the size) for the bleed screws and the bend it 90 degrees. You will have to heat it up to bend it of course. That way the handle of the wrench will be vertical like the bleed screws sticking up at you and the part of the wrench that goes on the nut will be parallel with the ground. Definitely makes a difference in ease of use. I am pretty sure Jamie did it this way.

[T__]

I always have a tought time bleeding the ABS modulator. It's so difficult to get at those bleed screws with any kind of wrench. What tool is available to make the job easier.

Urban Surfer, depending on the year/model you are referring to I usually just remove the large wire harness going into the modulator, then cover the modulator connector opening with a good sealing duct tape (you don’t want any brake fluid to enter the modulator connector),, that makes those bleed screws very easy to access with a common small open end wrench… I do use a deep socket to initially break the bleeders free so I don’t round the bleed screw’s hex off with the open end wrench..

 

Twisty

[Ken H.]

Get what are called "ignition wrenches." You can get a set of 10 or so sizes of about 2 mm - 12 mm at Sears for about $40. They are small enough to easily get to the bleeders.

 

As mentioned, disconnect the large electrical connector to gain a bit more room.

[Rottweiler]

I just did mine this past weekend, and yes you must remove the large electrical connector. The connector is a little tricky to remove if you don't know how. At the end of the connector toward the rear of your bike is a cap. You must pull the cap outward toward the rear wheel, it will come out about 1" and then the connector will easily lift up and off. If the connector doesn't lift off easily don't force it, you must pull the end cap back a little further and it will release. I also unplug the two smaller connectors from the front and rear reservours and cut the tywrap near the edge of the battery so I can move the entire wire harness out of my way.

[redryder]

I hadn't thought of Ken's ignition wrench idea, and it's just crazy enough to work. The next time I do mine I thought I'd go to a pawn shop and get a long 8 or 10 mm, whichever it is, box end wrench and bend it. I figgered two 90 degree bends would do it. One near the head to give me clearance, and the other farther up the handle to give me the needed leverage.

 

Never thought of moving the wiring harness either though. I guess you do learn something everyday.

[Bjarrett]

Ok, Educate me. I am on board buying the speed bleeders and using that to change the brake fluid. Why do you need to do the modulator?

[Ken H.]

Ok, Educate me. I am on board buying the speed bleeders and using that to change the brake fluid. Why do you need to do the modulator?

It's important to not confuse the ABS system used on the R1100xx series with that used on the R1150xx (and R1200C) series.

 

On the R1100xx bikes you don't necessarily have to bleed the ABS unit modulator separately. However on the R1150xx series the control hydraulic circuits are separate from the wheel applying braking force circuits. Thus they have to be bleed separately, from the ABS modulator unit.

 

Or to put it another way, if you were to pour blue brake fluid in the handlebar reservoir of a R1100xx and then bleed the front brakes, you would eventually see blue brake fluid come out the bleeder on the caliper. Not so on the R1150xx. All you would succeed in doing is eventually pumping the ABS modulator unit dry.

[Guest]

Ok, Educate me. I am on board buying the speed bleeders and using that to change the brake fluid. Why do you need to do the modulator?

It's important to not confuse the ABS system used on the R1100xx series with that used on the R1150xx (and R1200C) series.

 

On the R1100xx bikes you don't necessarily have to bleed the ABS unit modulator separately. However on the R1150xx series the control hydraulic circuits are separate from the wheel applying braking force circuits. Thus they have to be bleed separately, from the ABS modulator unit.

 

Or to put it another way, if you were to pour blue brake fluid in the handlebar reservoir of a R1100xx and then bleed the front brakes, you would eventually see blue brake fluid come out the bleeder on the caliper. Not so on the R1150xx. All you would succeed in doing is eventually pumping the ABS modulator unit dry.

 

The GS platform didn't change over to servo brakes until 2003.

[KMG_365]

The wrench for the control circuit screws is a 7mm. This is sort of an odd metric size and some (cheaper) metric sets (sold in the US anyway) go right from 6mm to 8mm skipping the 7mm size, so be sure to check it out before you check out.

 

I would second getting a 1/4" drive 7mm deep socket to break them loose initially as they can practically weld themselves to the modulator body. The threads also seem fairly loose here and as SpeedBleeders have even less thread engagement than the stock 7mm bleed screws (and are frequently not gooped with sealant right to the end), I've noticed them leaking enough that it's just as easy to use the stock ones and close them in between (access/reach not being an issue here).

 

The fancy wrench I have is one that Bill Strang (RT4Me) made up and gave out as "party favors" at one of his incredible Tech Daze. It is a cheap 7mm open end wrench heated and bent over 90* in a vise with a cheap 1/4" socket (any size) welded to the other end so that it's in-line with the crow's foot portion. Works like a charm! Also, remember the SpeedBleeder's are SAE so if you make a fancy 7mm wrench and swap the stock screws out for SB's, you'll need to make yourself another fancy SAE wrench!

[cgdR]

The wrench for the control circuit screws is a 7mm...

Is there a torque specification on these bleed screws? After I bleed the control circuit and I test the brakes at pressure, I usually get a tiny leak until I re-tighten the bleed screws "very" hard. This scares me to death because I can picture stripping the threads on the servos!

[twolfy]

"The fancy wrench I have is one that Bill Strang (RT4Me) made up and gave out as "party favors" at one of his incredible Tech Daze. It is a cheap 7mm open end wrench heated and bent over 90* in a vise with a cheap 1/4" socket (any size) welded to the other end so that it's in-line with the crow's foot portion. Works like a charm!"

 

Would you happen to have a picture of that"custom" tool? Sounds like something I would like to try and make.

Thanks

Tom

[Woodie]

The fancy wrench I have is one that Bill Strang (RT4Me) made up and gave out as "party favors" at one of his incredible Tech Daze.

 

OK, I admit it. That kind of "party favor" is hard to beat!

 

I have *got* to find a way to make it to a SoCal Tech Daze! Hmmm. Maybe my wife wants us all to go see her parents in SD? Can I show up to a Tech Day w/o a cycle?

[KMG_365]

Can I show up to a Tech Day w/o a cycle?

Hi Woody!! Of course you can!

 

I've discovered I can make a universal Mini-Stan (for all EVO's) for a $0.50 #2 rubber lab stopper and the $4.95 McMaster-Carr funnel! You stick the rubber stopper with the hole in the freezer overnight and drill the standard hole out a bit to accomodate the thicker funnel (without stretching the stopper so much that it no longer fits) and it seals just fine! I'm thinking of making up a few and giving them out at the upcoming SoCal TechDaze. Hey, for < $6.00 each it's a steal of a deal!

 

I'm at work so I'll try to take a few pics and post them later if I get a chance, though it might be later tonight.

 

Point of clarification: "Party Favors" are NOT required at TechDaze, it's just that some folks like to raise the bar quite a bit! I don't think I've ever given out any for the many "mini-tech daze" I've hosted (calling it a "mini" removes all pressure to keep up with the Jones'! ). I've seen 3mm ball-end allen power bits given out, crowsfoot wrenches, little LED keychain fobs, bound 3-ring internet wrenching article manuals, . . . it's just amazing what some people will do to help spread the love!

[rocks]

Point of clarification: "Party Favors" are NOT required at TechDaze, it's just that some folks like to raise the bar quite a bit! I don't think I've ever given out any for the many "mini-tech daze" I've hosted (calling it a "mini" removes all pressure to keep up with the Jones'! ). I've seen 3mm ball-end allen power bits given out, crowsfoot wrenches, little LED keychain fobs, bound 3-ring internet wrenching article manuals, . . . it's just amazing what some people will do to help spread the love!

 

Yeah... Samsar spread the love by giving out these last weekend

[KMG_365]

Yeah... Samsar spread the love by giving out these last weekend

WOW!!! The bar has been raised yet again--those are priceless!! (Even more so now that there are none left! )

 

Here are a few pics to help illustrate some of my earlier comments:

 

Here's a shot of a little trick I learned from MudMan recently to avoid the geyser coming out of the blow-by bore when bleeding the front control circuits or the pre-hexhead clutch circuit:

 

 

 

Here's a shot of the three versions of MiniStan's:

 

L to R: 2002(1)-2003, 2004-present, new universal (~USD$ 6.00):

 

 

 

and a shot of the universal assembled:

 

 

Here are a few shots showing the various wrench options. The crowsfoot ones with the socket welded on are by Bill Strang "RT4Me". The blue one is a 5/16ths SAE for control circuit SpeedBleeders and the red one is a 7mm Metric for the stock control screws. The open end wrench below is a cheapo one I bent but it doesn't work too well and the bottom one is a Craftsman ignition wrench which works well if you've already broken the screws loose with one of those above or with a deep socket.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know what the torque value is for those control circuit screws, but from the tables it would be around 7-10Nm I would think (I'm sure Mitch could get you a LOT closer).

 

I do know that after tightening down the control circuit screws--and especially after putting the dust caps back on--the brake fluid left in the central bore, which is now sealed off from the system, will seep out from the threads at the base and make it look as though they are leaking when in fact they are not. HTH

[Urban Surfer]

Thanks guys this has helped a lot. I just wish I hadn't paid $100 for a funnel. However it sure beats $300 for a brake bleed every year.

[Armando]

During the NE Tech Daze held this past weekend, we had 4 bikes with the tanks off. When we looked at the reservour connectors we had 2 bikes on which the connector with the yellow stripped wire was connected to the reservour with the yellow connector. This seemed logical. However, on the other 2 bikes, this connection was reversed. How do we know which is correct or does it matter?

 

 

I just did mine this past weekend, and yes you must remove the large electrical connector. The connector is a little tricky to remove if you don't know how. At the end of the connector toward the rear of your bike is a cap. You must pull the cap outward toward the rear wheel, it will come out about 1" and then the connector will easily lift up and off. If the connector doesn't lift off easily don't force it, you must pull the end cap back a little further and it will release. I also unplug the two smaller connectors from the front and rear reservours and cut the tywrap near the edge of the battery so I can move the entire wire harness out of my way.

[KMG_365]

During the NE Tech Daze held this past weekend, we had 4 bikes with the tanks off. When we looked at the reservour connectors we had 2 bikes on which the connector with the yellow stripped wire was connected to the reservour with the yellow connector. This seemed logical. However, on the other 2 bikes, this connection was reversed. How do we know which is correct or does it matter?

I suppose it could vary with the year of the bike but I've never bothered to log the ones I've seen. I've actually seen three combinations:

yellow tracer wire going to yellow reservoir plug socket

Yellow tracer wire going to black (i.e. non-yellow) reservoir plug socket

and neither reservoir plug socket being yellow, but both black

 

I have seen probably 20 different bike's EVO pumps now from the first early 2002's('01's in Canada and EU) to the 2006 Hexheads and I can't recall when they changed to add the one yellow reservoir plug. I do know the front reservoir was also made a bit taller to hold the extra fluid required for the eight pistons in the front (vs. the two in the rear). I think it was near the time when they changed the vent cap to the new style ('04) but I couldn't swear to it.

 

It would be interesting if half of them were installed incorrectly at the factory. I guess you could run the fluid down in one reservoir, generate an error code, then hook it up to the MoDiTec and have it tell you which one it thinks is low and answer it that way!

[Mudman]

It doesn't matter which plug is inserted in each fluid level sensor in the I-ABS system. The switches are wired in series so any open circuit (low fluid) will trigger a warning. The GT1 tester can not determine if the front or rear caused the fault for this reason. The only way to determine which brake circuit caused the problem is visual inspection.

 

I hope this helps

[Armando]

Thanks. Rather than changing the connector to what one would think logical (yellow to yellow) I decided to leave them as is. Based on the replies, not something worth losing sleep over.

 

thanks

[KMG_365]

I hope this helps

 

Thanks, Jim!

[rocks]

Yes thanks, another mystery from NE Tech days solved

 

It was interesting that we had at least four '02 RT's and the number of differences we found amoung them. And I'm not talking about the farkles that were added