MSF ERC on R1200RT

[JayW]

I just got back from the local ERC course. As I expected, it was a lot of fun and I gained some additional skill and confidence in lower speed maneuvering.

 

I had the only BMW, there were 5 Harleys, and 3 other Japanese cruisers. Two bikes got dropped - the first by an instructor while demonstrating an emergency quick stop. Fortunately he was not hurt, but was quite embarassed. We all tried to be gracious. The pavement was still wet from some rain last night, and the braking area was also over some painted parking lines. He was on a '93 Gold Wing (no ABS). In the second exercise of the day his front wheel locked up and he immediately went right over. A few minutes later one of the students did the same thing in the same exercise. I could feel my ABS engaging at the same spot, but my bike stopped very quickly and efficently. I am not as smooth as I would like - I need to go back to the lot and practice some more (and maybe from higher speeds)

 

The experience confirms the benefits of ABS and is a good reminder that even riders far more skilled than myself are not exempt from potential falls.

 

Next weekend I am going to the Nashville Superspeedway for fun and training at higher speeds. I did this last year and had a blast.

 

Be careful out there!

 

Jay

[motorman587]

I am sorry that one of MSF instructor showed you the wrong way to quick stop. But it the statement should say no matter how great you are or how much training you have there is nothing like ABS.

[JayW]

Yes, the more I think about it the more I am convinced that he should have known better. The risks of rain on painted pavement are well-known and he should have either moved the braking area or realized that he was going to have to be real careful with that front brake lever. I don't want to be too critical though, because I have a lot of respect for MSF instructors, and several months ago I tipped my bike over at a hilly camp site.

 

Jay

[timmr]

I did the ERC course recently on my GS. I felt like I was cheating.

FWIW, The instructor that demoed the exercises for us was very smooth on a ZX9R!

[John Moylan]

I am sorry that one of MSF instructor showed you the wrong way to quick stop.

...but at the same time, no-one is infallible, and a little 'off' every now and then - even for experts - puts a (not so) gentle reminder on skill level and how things diminish over time. (like picking up bad riding habits).

 

Who knows, maybe it also showed the students that you can never be too careful, nor take anything for granted. Hours/miles in the saddle included.

[NoHeat]

Slightly off topic:

 

Did you do that figure-eight "box" in the ERC that they do in the BRC?

 

I went to the MSF parking lot on a holiday when nobody was there, and did the "box" using both my RT and my first bike, which was a Honda Shadow. The Shadow was much better for that low-speed maneuver. In fact, I could do the smallest box with ease on the Shadow, while I struggled to come even close to staying within the lines for the biggest box while on the RT.

 

I would take the ERC but they didn't offer it here this year.

[JayW]

They had 3 "boxes" - one 28 feet wide, one 24 feet, and the smallest was 20 feet wide. I think they are all 70 feet long. In the basic course we had to do the figure 8 in the smallest box using a Honda Rebel or similar machine. In the ERC course we all used our own bikes and started with the largest box, and then the medium size one. For some reason, our instructors never had us try the 20 foot box. I have tried that one before in my practice sessions at the lot, and can stay in the lines most of the time on my RT if I have practiced recently. I have a harder time with the right turn, maybe because the throttle is on that side.

 

Jay

[SteveMc]

I did the ERC on my RT last weekend. Several of the riding skills required slipping the clutch, not good with a dry clutch. A tall first gear makes it hard to idle through the course. Any recommendations on how to get through the course without abusing your clutch?

[JayW]

You're right - the tall 1st gear does make it challenging to do some of the walking speed exercises. The answer is to feather and slip the clutch anyway. I don't think this practice wears the clutch significantly at idle and I never get any of the burned clutch smell that others have mentioned with this bike. This could be partly because I only weigh 150 pounds and rarely carry a passenger.

 

Jay

[St0nkingByte]

You can also try riding the rear brake a bit. That seems to help with the low speed stuff.

[JayW]

Yes - I have also used the rear brake to good effect in this situation and should have mentioned it. Just be vewy caweful with the front brake when that wheel is not straight and square with the rest of the bike.

 

Jay

[JoeV]

I found the R1200rt to be extreemly manageable at slow speed.

 

I used to ride a Ducati SuperSport SS1000ds. Very long bike with low bars and tight handlebar stops. In comparison

 

I test road a R1200rt, and if it wasn't out of my price range I would have bought it. It was very nimble. I live on a very narrow country road and was easily able to do circles on the road in front of my house.

 

Please forgive me if I seem insulting but the R1200rt is a very nimble and able bike at slow speeds. The very high seating position makes it a little scary but practice will make slow speed maneuvers very doable on the R1200rt.

 

Don't forget to lean to the "outside" of the turn when doing slow speed maneuvers.

 

For a good picture of what a slow speed u-turn should look like see the cover of David Houghs book: "Street Strategies: A Survival Guide for Motorcyclists"

 

Joe V.

[uk1200RT]

I teach the MSF courses on my 1200RT...best bike I have ever used for it. The low speed handling of the RT is phenomenal.

The figure 8 is used in both the BRC and the ERC. The difference is the size of the box. The BRC is supposed to be taught on 250CC or smaller bikes. The 20ft box is for those smaller bikes. The larger one is for the ERC. Most ranges will paint an even larger box for practice.

One thing I really notice is that most riders are scared to move in the seat at all during low speed movements. Counterbalancing (weighting the outside edge of the seat in a curve) really improves the handling. Most people don't want to lean the bike, but it is so much more effective. I can easily do the smallest box on the RT when counterbalanced and leaning, but I can't get anywhere near it if I just try to turn the wheel.

[JayW]

Thanks for the input. I went back to the lot this last weekend and tried this approach on my own RT - especially the leaning part. Indeed it does tighten that figure 8. The key seems to be the counterbalancing as well as keeping the throttle engaged. The high gearing on the RT doesn't help, but can be overcome with smoothness and slipping the clutch a bit if needed.

 

Thanks.

 

Jay

[Mark K]

Thanks for the input. I went back to the lot this last weekend and tried this approach on my own RT - especially the leaning part. Indeed it does tighten that figure 8. The key seems to be the counterbalancing as well as keeping the throttle engaged. The high gearing on the RT doesn't help, but can be overcome with smoothness and slipping the clutch a bit if needed.

 

 

 

I remember that box from the ERC......This is what worked for me -- butt crack on opposite edge of seat, second gear, higher revs, drag the rear brake and you'll be surprised how tight that thing will turn!

[LuckyLeif]

I teach the MSF courses on my 1200RT...counterbalanced and leaning, but I can't get anywhere near it if I just try to turn the wheel.

 

All good suggestions based on my teaching MSF for 10 years. Another way that students get into trouble on slow speed turns is that they try to modulate speed using their throttles. The problem is that at such low speeds fuel injection and driveline lash combine to give a very "jerky" response that tends to upset stability. I ride a 12GS to do my demos and find it best to extend and lock my thumb against the throttle housing to maintain throttle position. I adjust speed only using the foot brake pedal while leaving the clutch fully engaged - essentially have the brake applied thrughout the entire time in the box. But if your rear pedal is linked to your front brake (as in pre 05 RTs), then I'd omit dragging the rear brake and rely on clutch modulation to control speed. And like others have said, counterbalancing can make a huge difference, but it takes a little practice to get over the fear factor of dropping a fully-leaned bike at slow speeds, especially if the bike is top heavy and tall.

 

Also, I didn't realize the the MSF curricula we're being taught overseas. Is this in affiliation with US DoD?

[JayW]

Second gear? High revs? That seems a bit fast for a tight figure 8, even if the rear brake is dragged. Am I missing something?

 

Jay

[LuckyLeif]

Second gear? High revs? That seems a bit fast for a tight figure 8, even if the rear brake is dragged. Am I missing something?

 

Jay

 

When I ride a trainer bike to do the demo, I use second gear as it smoothes throttle response. When students complain of jerky throttle response, we advise trying 2nd gear. But doing demos with the beemer I keep it in first gear with enough throttle to be above idle (steady at 2000rpm?) and adjust speed by varying rear brake pressure. I think a steady engine speed is the key to maintaining a stable chassis -- using clutch, rear brake, or both to adjust speed is a personal choice. My choice is clutch fully engaged with variable braking.

[JayW]

Oh, okay - I thought you were recommending second gear on the RT as best for tight figure-8s. I now understand what you were saying and agree completely.

 

Jay

[Mark K]

Second gear? High revs? That seems a bit fast for a tight figure 8, even if the rear brake is dragged. Am I missing something?

 

Jay

 

Not high revs, but definitely off idle. You will find a larger friction zone using a higher gear. Use the more forgiving friction zone and the rear brake to control speed, not the throttle. Works for me, anyway.