2 up in the dirt???

[Whip]

I'm not an experienced dirt rider....(I dumped Killer's Honda inside of 15 minutes on a road full of deep sand he told me not to go into)....I'm thinkin about doin some dirt/fire roads two up on say a GS or GSA....when I come to a questionable part of the road when ridin alone I increase the pressure on the pegs propotional to the size of the obstacle...What is my passenger(Mrs Whip) supposed to do....pray???

 

She can't balance on the pegs and hold on to me because I've already raised up on the pegs and am out off reach...maybe grab the grab rail tight and make herself part of the seat is the answer???

 

 

What does the collective think she should do????......We are always able to talk to each other when ridin so assume she will take intructions with enough time to react

 

Whip

[Firefight911]

This is a trick question Whip!!!!

 

I've met Mrs. Whip, you'll never know she was there!

[Whip]

This is a trick question Whip!!!!

 

I've met Mrs. Whip, you'll never know she was there!

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

On the way up....no big deal but when she lands.....whammmm.....then she wants me to stop, go back and pick up her teeth...

 

Whip

[GelStra]

Dang, you get a new sleeper couch, Larry?

[Bill_Walker]

I think Louise should ride her own dirt bike! Either that or stay home, which I suspect she would find preferable to riding pillion off-road.

[rdfrantz]

Whip, my friend, I've got distinct Go/No-Go thoughts about two up riding both on and off pavement. The No-go is based in my passenger not having a fair chance to defend themselves in an environment that's got way more challenges than sedate street riding. And, the "defend oneself" is about the physical vulnerability in case of a collision or fall. The falls are usually more challenging on the dirt, and dirt riding is more challenging toward falls.

 

I've got the same Limits, and also Guidelines, about Fast Riding. That's also based in not passing on to the passenger dangerous likelihoods, and extreme consequences. I love my life (Pains, losses, fears and all), and I adore my own wellbeing, and won't unduly endanger either. I always have and express even greater concern about others than myself - And that especially pertains to a passenger: They have extended me Trust and I won't ever get near personal envelope edges with them aboard. Ever.

 

I'll ride two up on dirt roads that I know of quite willingly. Other roads I'll take on two up based in advice from folks I understand and trust.

 

Once I've decided to undertake a road two up I treat known and unknown ones the same. I'm watching how the surface is developing or changing. More pot holes, deteriorating surface, or soft sand and I stop, turn around and get back on pavement. No exceptions.

 

I will not ever ride two up in a case where I feel called upon to physically ride differently, such as stand up on the pegs in dirt, or such as to hang off on a paved road. Both of those exceeded the challenge level to staying upright I'm willing to pass on to my passenger.

 

I'd ask each person to set their own Limits, and to have a clearly defined and well practiced set of Guidelines. But please understand the understanding and care for you that brings me to stridently urge you to put those two things in place - and then to be determined enough to follow them.

 

Then you can ride, and ride the way you are riding far better... because you have a clear conscience, and a mind not burdened with worry.

 

Best wishes.

[Dinkee]

Hi Whip! (and Mrs. Whip!)

Joel and I have done a bit of 2-Up in the dirt and I have tried to really be "one" with the bike. I do think that if you are going to be riding a road where getting up the pegs is necessary, 2-up isn't a good idea. The one time Joel stood up on the pegs (and it wasn't even dirt.. he was just stretching) I started to slide forward and he almost sat on me..it was one of the scariest moments for me on a bike.. Joel didn't notice it, but he surely would have if I hadn't reacted so fast and dragged myself back into position. I told him about it later and asked him to let me know his intentions in the future.

I have really enjoyed our 2-up dirt riding and I think it helped me to be more confident when I started riding the dirt recently. I love it!

 

Good luck!

[Francois_Dumas]

Let me put it to you this way: I took the Jeep up a stony mountain off-road path last week with steep sections, but nothing really dangerous.

 

Mrs. Navman did NOT like it, even though a Jeep is a pretty safe environment for doing (extremely mild in this case) off-roading in.

 

I can't imagine going there on a (dirt) bike with her as a passenger...... I CAN imagine being clobbered over the head for even mentioning the mere trickle of an idea....

 

So, if "our Martians" are anything alike at all, I'd start with wearing a helmet in the house if I were you.......

[Whip]

I'm not talkin about doin anything more than gravel/ dirt roads....I'm planning our trip to Alaska and some of the place I wish to go are not paved. Even on the best dirt road you run into pot holes and rutts that you cannot avoid, if a car or truck is coming the opposite direction sometimes your gonna ride over or through something that will cause me to want to put some extra prssure in the pegs, this will work fine for me. Mrs Whip usually does nothing, she then gets bouced around pretty good, even simple speed bumps in local nieghborhoods are an uncomfortable experience for a pillion, but the driver lifts on the pegs and has no issue....I'm thinkin pulling up on the grab rails is the best answer....I think a little practice is in order...

 

Dick/Bill/Dinky/Francois .... Thanks for your thoughtful posts.

 

Phil/Paul.... Tanks fur nottin

 

Whip

[Firefight911]

Phil/Paul.... Tanks fur nottin

 

Whip

 

Bitter!!

 

On a more serious note, since I know you are com'd together, I would think that, as Dinkee stated, let her know what's coming up and have her lift her bottom off the seat just enough to clear it and weight her pegs as well.

 

Practice is most assuredly the best bet. With that being said, why don't the BOTH of you sign up for the MSF Dirt Bike school? When Jamie and I got our DRZ's I signed her up and I took it with her. We had a blast!!

 

Even if Luise doesn't have Jeremy McGrath intentions, just being able to understand what you're doing (a tall order, I know!!!) will make your experience exponentially better.

 

There is that better?

 

Phil/Richard Out!

[Whip]

Phil/Paul.... Tanks fur nottin

 

Whip

 

Bitter!!

 

On a more serious note, since I know you are com'd together, I would think that, as Dinkee stated, let her know what's coming up and have her lift her bottom off the seat just enough to clear it and weight her pegs as well.

 

Practice is most assuredly the best bet. With that being said, why don't the BOTH of you sign up for the MSF Dirt Bike school? When Jamie and I got our DRZ's I signed her up and I took it with her. We had a blast!!

 

Even if Luise doesn't have Jeremy McGrath intentions, just being able to understand what you're doing (a tall order, I know!!!) will make your experience exponentially better.

 

There is that better?

 

Phil/Richard Out!

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Phil

 

We tried the dirt bike stuff...the only bike Louise would ride was Honda Trail 70...I swear.

 

and yes that was better

 

 

Whip

[Joel]

My thinking on this is somewhat like Dick's in terms of concern for my dear passenger. I ride MUCH more conservatively with Heidi aboard than I would if I were solo. But, I got the GS for just this reason, and we've covered a couple hundred miles of gravel and dirt roads in the year I've had Big Muddy. I still have plenty to work on, but I've learned a lot.

 

The first lesson was to be selective. Since I don't Dance with Weiner Dogs, I heed warnings like "4-wheel drive recommended" and I won't go on something that might turn to single track. (Hi Steve ) I might try something like that solo, but not 2-up.

 

The second lesson was SLOW DOWN. Unless the surface is so well maintained that it is almost like pavement, I barely flirt with the posted speed limit. By being on dirt, I've already compromised a fair amount of traction. I don't want to compound that risk with speed. When I go slower, I seldom feel like I should be standing for better control. Unless the surface is really good, I'm usually in 2nd gear or lower, 35 - 40 mph max.

 

The third lesson was to increase my scanning of the road surface. You'd think that you could ease up some, since there is less traffic and fewer intersections on dirt roads, but you can't. In a way, it is like skiing -- picking a line through the bumps. Sometimes deep sand looks just like the packed surface. Sometimes gravel piles up in stacks through a curve, like a bunch of marbles waiting for you to slip on them. Sometimes you notice these things in time and avoid them. Sometimes you have to grit your teeth and try not to twitch until you get though them.

 

The fourth lesson was to think about the suspension and tires. I dial the rear preload back to my solo setting (medium on the OEM shock). I don't change the front. As for tires, I'm more comfortable with the Tourances I'm running now, instead of the OEM Dunlop Trailwings. The Tourances are not really a tire for dirt, but certainly better than the Trailwings. If you get a GSA, you might end up with TKC 80s, which would be even better (but maybe not as good for the long stretches of asphalt that take you to the end of the pavement). Also, things feel smoother and more stable with 6 - 10 pounds less tire pressure than running on pavement. I carry an electric pump so I can top the tires back up for riding on pavement.

 

Finally, I try not to take for granted that I have a great pillion. Heidi stays in position so that her presence is always neutral. And yes, I have learned not to make any sudden drastic movements myself.

[SageRider]

I took the Jeep up a stony mountain off-road path last week with steep sections, but nothing really dangerous.

 

Mrs. Navman did NOT like it,

 

Funny. My wife got me back onto motorcycles because she felt safer on the back of my motorcycle than as a passenger in my rock crawler Jeep. She often asks the question why the vertical 1000 plus foot drop is always on the passenger side of the vehicle.

 

I do tend to agree with Dick Frantz's philosphy as posted above. I used to expose my wife to all sorts of unnecessary risks and was fortunate to get away with it. I like to think that I have matured somewhat, and now consider passenger safety as the top priority no matter what the road base or conditions. It takes one heck of a lot of faith to be a passenger!

[Wooster]

So, if "our Martians" are anything alike at all, I'd start with wearing a helmet in the house if I were you.......

 

Francois,

 

Thanks for the humor in this somewhat impractical (IMHO) topic. BTW, the saying goes, "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, and you, my friend, are farther out, perhaps, Uranus" (HoHo). So, methinks it's the Venitians who object to passive pillion passengering in the dirt.

 

Topic is impractical because, few mortals dirt ride 500 + pound bike athletically (slides, jumps and bumps). Truth to tell, the GS (reaching for flame proof shield here) is similar to SUV in that the image of dual purpose exceeds actual dual sport worthiness. Now, add a passenger to the load, well, dirt roads are do-able in the same way as pavement, that is, both wheels planted, nothing fancy. This mode of dirt riding (similar to senior citizens walking) can be done two up on most naked bikes. Now, OTOH, single track rocky uphill ? Leave the $15K 500 LB GS at home and ride dedicated dirt bike (250 lb, knobby tires, solo).

Whip, by all means take the lady along only keep it low and slow.

 

Wooster

[glockster]

Whip, just watched an episode of Dr. Danger on INHD (hi-def channel)In this episode he travels to South Africa and takes a 4 day, BMW sponsored off highway course. I believe it was called, "country tracks." It was a great show, most customers on GS's and GS Adv's. Anyway, to my point, the lead instructor took Dr. Danger on a 500 mile route of mostly dirt roads. He had a pillion with him the entire time. The camera did not focus on him very often (it is after all Dr. Dangers show) But 2 things I noticed, 1)when crossing a small stream, rider AND passenger were standing on their pegs. 2) when they climbed a dirt hill they were both sitting.

 

I'll watch it again and see if I notice anything else.

 

I hope some others out there got a chance to see this show!

[hazmat]

I have ridden dirt bikes for along time and if I where to ride in the dirt with a passenger say on my KTM950 I would do as some have suggested. Go slow especially in the curves ruts and sand always seem to be there. Scan the road as far as you can, one thing dirt diring does it teaches you to read the trail/road and pick good lines. You don't need to stand up to put pressure on the pegs just weighting them or lifting up off the saddle does it. Practice a lot before you do this and if you get a GS take a class. Jimmy Lewis has great classes, you don't have to be a great dirt rider just willing to listen and apply. Get a small dirt bike and get used to being in the dirt, very different than road. Have fun.