Balancing During a Stop

[Aluminum_Butt]

Allow me to start with the assumption that the "perfect" stop is one where both feet are on the pegs until the bike is stopped, then balance is maintained while your left foot is gently put down.

 

I'm not a paddler - I can keep my feet on the pegs until stopped. I manage to execute what I described above about 50% of the time. 40% of the time, I have to put my left foot down sooner/harder because the bike is starting to lean to the left - I don't have perfect control of the balance. The other 10% I have to put my right foot down because the bike leans to the right and I have to stop it.

 

I've read people here state that they can keep the bike balanced for 15 seconds or more after stopping.

 

What are the things that I may be doing wrong? What skills can I practice to improve my control?

[Albert]

I believe your main problem is the gravitational environment that you are riding in. I have found that keeping my head and eyes up helps. I think many people begin to focus on the ground, closer to the bike, as they slow. Inherently one will begin to make small corrections that tend to upset the natural stability of the bike. I know from time to time I have to remind myself of this lest I slip into old habits.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

What are the things that I may be doing wrong?

 

Believing everything you read on the internet.

[GelStra]

I quote from Gleno 9:7

You people could analyse a haircut.

[jpsmith]

50% is really good. I love a perfect stop! But, there are a lot of things that go into that. Unfortunatly in a not so perfect world of riding there are things like wind, road conditions, tires, and our own day to day, hour to hour ability to balance. As a for instance, I notice that as I get older that my balance is harder to maintain. Some days I can thread the needle, other days I stab my self with it. It takes focus.

Pulling out at the end of my road is hard. I'm stopped up hill and must clutch out, and turn more up hill and pull across traffic. It's hard in a car, but on my bike it's hard to balance and look, and keep from being run down like a dog in the street. I have to focus to pull it off every time. 50% of the time it's perfect, other days not so, but I haven't been run over and I'm still looking for that 100%. JP

[Firefight911]

Alright, I'll bite!

 

Balance starts with being relaxed, expecially in the area of the arms.

 

Pay attention to how you squeeze the front brake. Are you "pulling the lever" to the bar, or are you squeezing the lever without pulling it toward you.

 

Keep your eyes up. Look left, go left; look right, go right; look down, go down.

 

Keep the knees locked in to the tank.

 

Other than that, practice.

 

Hey, you missed a hair over there above your ear.

[rrrich]

That was the Village Grouch that said that about 15 seconds wasn't it? I read that and it's infected me ever since too.

 

I'm about where you are as far as percentages, maybe a hair ( ) more right stops though.

 

One thing, and this goes along with our #1bwmfan and that is relaxation. I find if I relax/drop my sholders as I near the stop and focus up and out, it's better.

 

Here's the rub though and why I'm pissed at the ol grouch...even if I score big and stop upright, balanced for a second, or two, or even homerun it and go three or FOUR seconds (may we all be blessed) I've never come near 15 seconds!!! Guess it's good to have goals you may never reach, eh?

 

Gotta go, need a haircut...

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Guilty, although, if I don't think about it, I have gone longer.

 

Balance is like walking. If you had to make the concious effort to control every muscle involved in taking a step, you'd be on your ass or face within 2 feet. The things that lead up to automatic balance have to do with your eyes and your hands and constant practice. Remember, I ride every day, or I don't go anywhere, no cage.

 

That riding every day brings with it all sorts of opportunities to work on low speed skills. Trying to time things at lights or in stop and go traffic so I don't have to come to a complete stop, feeling the bike under me and anticipating those tiny leans that will give gravity a chance to have its way, focus on what is going on in front of me, not on the bike. All of a sudden, there I am, at a dead stop, both feet on the pegs and nothing holding me up. Then it dawns on me that I've done it again and I start to think about how long I can hold it and over I go. It's kinda a Zen thing.

 

A good way to learn is to not think about purple giraffes. Gotcha!

[ElevenFifty]

I would contend that every stop is different and that PERFECT just means completely controlled. Personally, I almost always stop with an intent to plant my left foot. The ground is higher on that side cause roads are made that way and I am vertically average (that means challenged on a BMW) . . . it also keeps my right foot on the peg where it can engage the brake.

 

I confess that I do come to a balanced, standing stop at four way stop sign type intersections if I can clearly determine there is no danger to balancing and going with no foot touch. In my days of riding bicycles with cleated shoes strapped to the pedal, I could balance as long as necessary . . . but motorbikes are a different class of vehicle . . . we ride in the traffic, not alongside it.

 

I believe that the 'balance at the stop 15 seconds' philosopy is WRONG! Even if you could do it every time, its best to STOP! Plant a foot - look around - and go when safe.

[Gary in Aus]

Any stop where the bike is still upright is a GOOD stop any stop where you feel in total control is a PERFECT stop.

 

I always put my left foot down and it is not because the road is higher on that side ,our roads are made to be lower on that side !!

 

Creature of habit?

[Cali Kid]

the assumption that the "perfect" stop is one where both feet are on the pegs until the bike is stopped, then balance is maintained while your left foot is gently put down.

 

IN! OOPS that's another thread?

 

For clarification, could you refine the following-

What exactly consitutes stopped?

What does it mean to maintain balance?

Could you please explain how gently is determined?

 

Looking for the perfect stop is like looking for the perfect mate... keep looking

 

Sorry, grad school is gettin' to me, had to find someone to dump on

[WayneM]

What are the things that I may be doing wrong? What skills can I practice to improve my control?

Like others, I too was tempted with a sarcastic dig at what rules there could possibly be for a 'perfect stop', and why anyone would worry about such things.....

 

The fact that several actually gave suggestions as to how to accomplish this, indicates unfortunately that you are not alone in assuming there is such a thing as a 'perfect stop', and that such techniques are somehow a measure of accomplishment in motorcycle skill.....

 

Wayne

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Wayne,

What else would you call it but a skill? OK, I'll grant it is more of a trick than a skill but it does demonstrate the ability to maintain control. Is it one of the essential skills? Probably not, although feel for what the motorcycle is doing, regardless of speed, could well be called an essential skill.

 

For some, those who are vertically challenged or lack leg strength, it does become important to maintain the bike as straight up and down as possible. Witness the number of low speed drops people talk about on here. I see nothing unfortunate about suggestions about how to improve technique.

 

Rules, I do consider silly. Always stop with the left foot on the ground and the right to use the brake? Makes no sense to me. The situation dictates which foot goes down, be it left, right, both or neither, if I don't happen to be thinking about those purple giraffes.

[BWS]

I'll drag a knee with the best of'm.But have to admit that the ability to "balance" for extended periods of time during my rare appearences in traffic is possibly more entertaining.Its way easy on the KRS,although not as impressive as on a full blown sportbike.In either instance though it boils down to slow speed practice.Speaking of which starts before bikey ever leaves garage.How well can you do a turn-around of your bike whilst walking it around?I feel its important to be able to manhandle your ride before ever swinging a leg over it.In a perfect environ you should be able to perfectly balance your ride with one finger.Once that skill is mastered its time for a ride.BM's suck 'cause of the dry clutch not liking slippage.So you can't quite get the required super slo-mo practice on them as you can on other makes.Just practice going around your yard or anywhere safe,riding around obstacles as slow as possible.Think trials bikes.Once you can do it on a rough surface like grass/yard its real easy on pavement.Oh and its deffinately cheating to use squared off rubber in a stoplight balance war.Best of luck,BW

[WayneM]

While I agree there can be some skill in being able to balance and drop a toe some time after a bike has completely stopped.

 

What is unfortunate is there are some riders who will judge your ability based on such arbitrary technique, and call those who should happen to dab a toe before a complete stop as somehow ‘lesser skilled’ motorcyclists.

 

There are many cyclists who seem overly concerned with being 'smooth'; 'proper lines though corners' (at a small fraction of racing speed??); what is the correct (perfect????) way to do this or that; etc.

 

While I am all for improving skills, some have taken it to an extreme.

 

Having 'rules' about what is the 'correct and incorrect' way to put a foot down at a stop is an example of rules taken too far, where inconsequential minutiae are being examined and held up as the 'only correct way’ to do something, IMHO.

 

Wayne

[Lawman]

The "perfect" stop for me is one in which I don't fall down.

[Woodie]

Ok...STOP WITH THE PURPLE GIRAFFES ALREADY!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ken H.]

Brake control is an element of it too. As you are coming to a stop, easing off the brakes, and if you don't have linked, finishing the last 3" of roll with just the back brake, helps stabilize the bike so you are set up to try for 15 seconds with both feet up. (I can't go that long BTW. Just so nobody calls me on it some day! )

 

I hate when I ride with someone in a cage and they've never learned the art of how to release the brake a bit at the last moment of a stop, and you get that little jerk. Same principle applies on a bike.

 

ISFA analyzing something to death BTW, what are we suppose to do all day here, work?

[David]

While I agree there can be some skill in being able to balance and drop a toe some time after a bike has completely stopped.

 

What is unfortunate is there are some riders who will judge your ability based on such arbitrary technique, and call those who should happen to dab a toe before a complete stop as somehow ‘lesser skilled’ motorcyclists.

 

There are many cyclists who seem overly concerned with being 'smooth'; 'proper lines though corners' (at a small fraction of racing speed??); what is the correct (perfect????) way to do this or that; etc.

 

While I am all for improving skills, some have taken it to an extreme.

 

Having 'rules' about what is the 'correct and incorrect' way to put a foot down at a stop is an example of rules taken too far, where inconsequential minutiae are being examined and held up as the 'only correct way’ to do something, IMHO.

 

There are two things, here. One is being able to do it and one is doing it. You aren't unskilled if you aren't smooth or come to sloppy stops. But if you are trying to ride smoothly and/or come to a controlled, intentional stop and can't do either, you aren't skilled. Period.

 

A hobby is something you do because you enjoy it. A sport is something you do in order to get good at. Most folks in motorcycling are in it for a hobby, and that's exactly the right choice for them and there's no shame in it at all. What's often described in this forum is about seeing motorcycling as a sport, and then to a lesser extent some principles for keeping you safer, even if it's a hobby. But the fine points don't apply to seeing it as a hobby, which is fine.

[WayneM]

I agree 100%.

 

Just because someone dabs their foot down before the wheels stop completely, does not mean they have made a sloppy stop, or they are necessarily lesser skilled riders.

 

Not everyone has the same definition of what it means to be 'sloppy'.

 

Wayne

[GelStra]

ISFA analyzing something to death BTW, what are we suppose to do all day here, work?

[Stir]

Alright, I'll bite!

 

Balance starts with being relaxed, expecially in the area of the arms.

 

Pay attention to how you squeeze the front brake. Are you "pulling the lever" to the bar, or are you squeezing the lever without pulling it toward you.

 

Keep your eyes up. Look left, go left; look right, go right; look down, go down.

 

Keep the knees locked in to the tank.

 

Other than that, practice.

 

Hey, you missed a hair over there above your ear.

 

This is what was looking for. The relaxed part is the biggest part. The description of braking is exactly what I do as well. I don't recall keeping my knees against the bike but I may. I can't sit for 15 seconds but I can certainly balance for 2 to 3 seconds before placing BOTH feet down. I don't just do one foot. Using one foot means you are going to have to conciously think about weighting to the left which unbalances the bike. Putting both feet down keeps balance so you aren't anticipating putting just the left foot down hence the longer balance time. If your left foot goes down in a puddle of road snot, you are less likely to go down and over because the bike is still balanced and you have the fall back position of weighting to the right.

 

My 2 cents.

 

M

[wsearl]

I hate when I ride with someone in a cage and they've never learned the art of how to release the brake a bit at the last moment of a stop, and you get that little jerk. Same principle applies on a bike.

Hear Hear! - this is indicative of not taking any pride in how you drive/ride.

[AdventurePoser]

What are the things that I may be doing wrong?

 

Believing everything you read on the internet.

 

 

Steve in So Cal

[Francois_Dumas]

Allow me to start with the assumption that the "perfect" stop is one where both feet are on the pegs until the bike is stopped, then balance is maintained while your left foot is gently put down.

 

 

That would be your RIGHT foot according to what we are taught here

 

And FWIW... why would you want to balance while stopped anyway? I just put my (right) foot down to keep the bike upright until I leave again.. and sometimes BOTH if that is called for (being pushed by wind, being on a slanted bit of road, having Nina wriggle in her seat behind me....... you name it !).

 

I too aim to come to a stop (when seeing it coming) in a fluid 'motion' and without making Nina hit the back of my helmet..... putting the foot down AFTER the bikes come to a halt.. or rather at the same time. I nail it often, but not always...... and in the end, it is not important. Just as long as I don't fall over, really

[KCSheila]

Head always up, looking AHEAD. After checking my mirrors, in case someone is on the phone and driving behind me, I focus either above the car in front of me or the next one up. Stops me upright, without a lean and keeps me from looking, even slightly around me or at the ground beside me. I think that the more I ride, the more I assume I will stop upright and have caught myself glancing at other cars BEFORE I get COMPLETELY stopped. Also, make sure that you are not taking a peak in your mirrors just as you stop instead of a bit ahead of that stop. It is so true to that where you look, you will go on these bikes. Even a slight glance anywhere but straight ahead and UP throws off the balance. Good practice is to be attentive to how you do when traffic is creaping or you are coming up on a green light that traffic hasn't started moving on yet. That slow progression is a great time to practice the balance issue and use the rear break to do so.

[John Moylan]

..I've read people here state that they can keep the bike balanced for 15 seconds or more after stopping.

 

well, I've never timed it but, doing something similar, I was informed by my instructor that at a junction, I hadn't stopped, as the sign required. Oh yes, I did, I replied. No, you didn't put your foot down, I was told.

Correct, I didn't put my foot down, but I still stopped. I just sat there, feet up, wheels stopped, for X seconds, and then proceeded.

 

I got the distinct impression that I was fighting a losing battle on that one........

[Wooster]

I've read people here state that they can keep the bike balanced for 15 seconds or more after stopping.

 

MD2020

 

Stationarily, I balance for second or two; brakes, clutch and throttle help, sort o'static/dynamic. OTOH uprite for five's easy, given a rolling foot or two. Fifteen, I don't know.

Using brake/clutch controls while stopping/starting allows for little levitation.

 

Wooster w/wings

[Bud]

Guilty, although, if I don't think about it, I have gone longer.

 

Balance is like walking. If you had to make the concious effort to control every muscle involved in taking a step, you'd be on your ass or face within 2 feet. The things that lead up to automatic balance have to do with your eyes and your hands and constant practice. Remember, I ride every day, or I don't go anywhere, no cage.

 

That riding every day brings with it all sorts of opportunities to work on low speed skills. Trying to time things at lights or in stop and go traffic so I don't have to come to a complete stop, feeling the bike under me and anticipating those tiny leans that will give gravity a chance to have its way, focus on what is going on in front of me, not on the bike. All of a sudden, there I am, at a dead stop, both feet on the pegs and nothing holding me up. Then it dawns on me that I've done it again and I start to think about how long I can hold it and over I go. It's kinda a Zen thing.

 

A good way to learn is to not think about purple giraffes. Gotcha!

 

OK I'll bite. Are you saying that after being completely stopped, i.e. no forward movement, you can then keep your feet on the pegs for an additional 15 seconds (or longer)?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Yup. Some days are better than others, some stops are better than others. It is really no big deal, more of a parlour trick. A good trials rider can do it as long as he/she wants. Bicycle riders do it a lot. You can do it.

 

Is it useful, or even desireable? Who knows? I often put my feet up on the pegs before I release the clutch as well. Neither are something I really think about while riding, they just kinda happen.

[philbytx]

Balancing at a stop is kinda fun for me too

Deb and I went for a ride this morning and I always try and do it with her on the back...now THAT's fun two-up

[Couchrocket]

Sometimes I look like a pro, sometimes I look like a monkey with a rubber ball. Sometimes I stop, pause, then put the foot down ever-so-gracefully, other times I just catch the bike from falling on me. Hey, I'm a human being!

 

I think David says something valuable in the "hobby vs. sport" concept. I'm on both sides of that fence, depending on what day it is, how I'm feeling, why I'm riding "that day."

 

I sometimes put my foot down slightly before the bike has come to a complete stop just to test the road surface if it looks dicey or "strange" in any way. Sometimes I brake early as a light is changing in front of me "in traffic" and manage to downshift my way to an "almost stop" an never have to put my feet down at all.

 

In order of importance to me:

 

The ability to stop the darn thing quickly w/o falling over.

Learning to read the conditions at "stops" and use whichever technique / foot, suits the conditions best.

The ability to be smooth and just "flow" w/o any sudden "anything" and come to a very graceful stop.

 

As for the last one, just get something to use as a marker in a nice smooth parking lot, and approach it over and over as your precise "stopping point." Keep eyes up, and relaxed, and work toward having your foot touch the ground at the exact moment the bike quits moving. "All of one piece" I'd describe it. And, with the front tire of your bike 'exactly' on / beside the marker.

 

Then, there's the very cool "pick your feet up and put them on the pegs before the bike starts to move" START! But that's probably another discssion of its own.

[Wooster]

Then, there's the very cool "pick your feet up and put them on the pegs before the bike starts to move" START! But that's probably another discssion of its own.

 

How about a hijack; As bike begins to fall, bit o'throttle helps straighten up. START's stability comes from bike's controls.

While clearly not applicable to erudite rider Couchrocket, others overlook clutch & throttle when balancing.

 

Wooster

[JoeV]

One more tip:

 

A slight counter steer input to the left handle bar

can cause the bike to lean left putting it's weight

onto the lowering left foot.

 

This can avoid the problem of the bike leaning right

when you have your right foot over the rear break

as your left foot is going to the ground.

 

As I appoach a stop (3 to 5MPH) I always lightly

skuff my left foot on the ground before the bike fully stops.

 

I used to ride a Ducati Supersport. It goes fast nice

but is very hard to ride at slow speeds. I now ride a

BMW R1150r Rockster (as of 2 weeks ago)

 

The Rockster is very easy to ride/balance at slow speeds.

Especially after riding the Ducati.

 

Practice/Practice/Practice.

 

I commute to work. I arrive early when the parking lot is

usually empty. Every morning I do a few figure 8s. Some

times at slow speeds (0 - 3 MPH) and sometimes leaning

off at higher (20MPH speeds). Practice practice practice.

 

 

JoeV