Adaptive Headlight Failure

[mophead]

2022 RT

Keep getting "Adaprive Headlight Failure" message pop up every time the sun starts to set.  Anyone else have this happen? Really do not want to go to dealer since its a four hour drive.  Sensor failure of some kind?

[JCtx]

I have an unrelated question about that feature: Does the low beam have a gyroscope, so the beam always moves horizontally, whether bike is moving straight or cornering at 45-deg? Otherwise it'd be useless, as when the bike is leaning it'd point straight down, only making matters worse. Or maybe it only works when bike is nearly vertical? Curious how it was implemented. But only more crap to go wrong. Thank you, and good luck.

[dirtrider]

3 hours ago, JCtx said:

I have an unrelated question about that feature: Does the low beam have a gyroscope, so the beam always moves horizontally, whether bike is moving straight or cornering at 45-deg? Otherwise it'd be useless, as when the bike is leaning it'd point straight down, only making matters worse. Or maybe it only works when bike is nearly vertical? Curious how it was implemented. But only more crap to go wrong. Thank you, and good luck.

Evening JCtx

 

The vertical is controlled by the motorcycle height sensors & the lean correction is controlled by the angular rate sensor.

[JCtx]

What I meant is how the projector physically moves within the headlight housing. To explain myself better, if the bike is vertical, the adaptive headlight would move in the 3 or 9 o'clock position. But if bike is leaned 45-deg, it'd have to move in the 10-1/2 or 4-1/2 o'clock position. If the light moves in the same 3 or 9 o'clock position when leaned over, it'd point to the ground, rather than ahead into the curve. Or maybe there are only fixed LEDs that light up when cornering, like some cars do, and nothing moves. Just curious what is the implementation, and how effective it is.

[wbw6cos]

Click the  LINKY to see a visual explanation from BMW Motorrad.

[JCtx]

That's exactly what I was looking for, but couldn't find it. Thanks. Now I understand how it works. Unfortunately, it adds even more complication. Hopefully it can be turned off, or that it only works at night. Thanks again.

[Mellow]

4 hours ago, JCtx said:

That's exactly what I was looking for, but couldn't find it. Thanks. Now I understand how it works. Unfortunately, it adds even more complication. Hopefully it can be turned off, or that it only works at night. Thanks again.

It doesn't feel like a servo motor when you see it at night... it looks more like the reflector is on a swivel because you can lean the bike left and right quickly and see the light ACT like it's on a swivel vs some motor involved.  But, if that's BMWs explanation then that's that.. lol

 

It's a very cool feature and much appreciated at night when you're in a twisty area.

[Mellow]

16 hours ago, mophead said:

2022 RT

Keep getting "Adaprive Headlight Failure" message pop up every time the sun starts to set.  Anyone else have this happen? Really do not want to go to dealer since its a four hour drive.  Sensor failure of some kind?

Do yo have a GS911 or Motoscan to check the code?  That's the first thing I'd do, likely some connector that isn't clipped in 100%..

[strataj]

11 hours ago, wbw6cos said:

Click the  LINKY to see a visual explanation from BMW Motorrad.

The example is on a K1600 with Xzenon lighting not LED .  I wouldn't bet it's the same on the RT. 

[wbw6cos]

I did not know that they had LED lighting in the adaptive set-up.   Thanks

[mneblett]

On 4/14/2024 at 11:40 AM, mophead said:

2022 RT

Keep getting "Adaprive Headlight Failure" message pop up every time the sun starts to set.  Anyone else have this happen? Really do not want to go to dealer since its a four hour drive.  Sensor failure of some kind?

After that massive thread hijack(!), my answer to the OP's original question is no, I haven't seen that warning.  I suspect it is being triggered when the bike's ambient light sensor reaches its low-light threshold (i.e., what it thinks is "sunset").

 

If you do not have a GS911, and there are not any obviously loose connectors in the vicinity of the headlight, then unfortunately a trip to your dealer for diagnostics likely is your only choice.  But before I drove 4 hours to the dealer, I'd call to ask the service manager if he has any experience with the issue.  I'd be surprised if he/she does, as BMW's adaptive lighting systems have proven themselves to be very reliable.  I personally have never heard of an adaptive light failure, but obviously my personal knowledge is of no significance.  That said, if adaptive lighting failures were enough to be statistically insignificant, by now we'd certainly have had the issue dissected six ways to Sunday on this and other forums.  

 

[*soapbox mode ON*]  I don't buy into the knee-jerk luddite reaction that new technologies are always just "more to go wrong," i.e., an inherent evil that should be turned off or otherwise avoided.  If we all had that attitude, we'd still be using carbs rather than wickedly-accurately-metering and *highly* reliable fuel injection systems, side valve/flathead arrangements rather than overhead cams (or even in-block cams with pushrods and rocker arms), constantly wearing/pitting ignition points rather than today's *far* more reliable electronic ignition systems, etc.  (I also don't buy into the usual counter argument that things like points as readily fixable so they're inherently better than today's electronics.  Yes, I can fix a set of worn points on the side of the road as opposed to a "dead" black box (which actually rarely fail without any warning, so sudden instant immobilization is incredibly rare today), but today how many people would even know where to start looking, let alone know how to dress and set points?  The reality is that something like an ignition failure is a call-the-dealer problem for 99.9999% of today's population, whether "old school" mechanical or modern electronic).

 

I understand that sometimes (often?) the initial versions of new technologies can (but not always) have higher mortality rates and other teething problems, but these issues tend to pretty quickly be addressed and then such systems become uber-reliable (e.g., early fuel injection electronics failures and early electronic ignition module failures in the '70's and '80s).  So my view is that after the initial demons have been exorcized and the tech has an established record of reliability (in this case, BMW's adaptive headlight electronics and actuators which have been out more than a decade, as well as other highly beneficial tech such ABS systems) the mere fact that a bike has a feature that wasn't common in the past is no reason to arbitrarily condemn and seek to avoid it.  

 

All things eventually fail.  I'm of the mind that I'm happy to reap the benefits of reliable tech, even if someday they need repair.  Alternatively stated, my wife's '73 SWB R75/5 (a rose-colored glasses-viewed "simple, reliable" bike) requires more upkeep and "breaks" more often than my 2023 R1250RT, despite the RT being "more complicated" and therefore supposably more prone to its multiple systems failing (same as with my last nearly 20 oilheads, hexheads, camheads, wetheads, flying bricks, and K16s).   BMW is by no means perfect -- witness the current terribly-executed cellphone-based TFT navigation system, their need to back-cover older driveshafts, and the decade of failing final drives -- but in view of the now-proven reliability of the vast majority of today's BMW tech, I chose to not view things through "additional stuff is inherently bad" optics but instead to get the huge benefits my modern RT has over the 50 year-old R75/5.  

 

Don't get me wrong, the R75/5 is a *great* bike -- but to suggest that it is more reliable (let alone being even close to as safe to drive without today's driver assistance systems (ABS, lean-sensitive traction control, adaptive cruise control, tire pressure monitoring, headlights that "see" around curves, etc.) is luddite thinking. [*soapbox more OFF*]

 

Ok, pot stirred, with apologies to the OP for my own hijack!

[mneblett]

13 hours ago, strataj said:

The example is on a K1600 with Xzenon lighting not LED .  I wouldn't bet it's the same on the RT. 

The K16 adaptive light arrangements are definitely different than the RT's, but the principles are the same.  The K16 has a fixed light source pointing upwards, and uses a movable mirror which can pitch up/down and rotate left-right around the roll axis to direct the reflected light in the desired direction (the link to the BMW info page shows this arrangement).  If you watch an RT's adaptive light during bike start-up, you'll also see the reflector behind the RT's LED light source moving (the LED and the reflector move together). 

[JCtx]

2 hours ago, mneblett said:

[*soapbox mode ON*]  I don't buy into the knee-jerk luddite reaction that new technologies are always just "more to go wrong,"

Luddite? My 2020 R1250R bike has cornering ABS, adaptive suspension, cruise control, shift-cam, fuel-injection, etc. So it should be obvious to any smart person I'm not a 'luddite'. I just don't want extra crap I don't need/want/use IF I can avoid it, because it'd be more prone to fail that if it wasn't there to begin with. THAT was my point. But if it's important for somebody else, like cornering ABS/TC, ESA, and cruise was for me, then of course get it. I'd have liked a simple key rather than a fob, but again, it's okay, since it was tied with the other options. And funny how you rant about hijacking the thread, and you go and hijack it with this. Geez.

[mneblett]

49 minutes ago, JCtx said:

Luddite? My 2020 R1250R bike has cornering ABS, adaptive suspension, cruise control, shift-cam, fuel-injection, etc. So it should be obvious to any smart person I'm not a 'luddite'. I just don't want extra crap I don't need/want/use IF I can avoid it, because it'd be more prone to fail that if it wasn't there to begin with (like key vs fob). THAT was my point. And funny how you rant about hijacking the thread, and you go and hijack it even worse. Geez.

I completely agree about the irony of the hijack (although made after I first did directly answer the OP's question) -- hence my apology to the OP at the end of my post.

 

My apologies to you as well, as I did not mean to directly attack you.  Of course, if anyone wants to avoid a technology (for whatever reason), they can vote with their wallet.

 

The intent of my post was a general venting (and perhaps arguably overreacting) against the tiresome theme I see over and over again in various forums in which so many new (and often well-proven) technologies are put down as "just something else to break" in a manner which suggests we would *all* be better off without the advancements.  In hindsight, I was not clear about that in my post.  It is obvious you are not in that category, and I did not interpret your post as saying such.

 

As my post was not interpreted in the way I intended, responsibility for the lack of clarity is mine.  Apologies to all for the unnecessary kerfuffle.

[mophead]

Do have the GS911 and got the adaptive headlight failure fault cleared.  It returned as usual so guess dealer visit will be in order.  Thanks Mark and Mellow for your replies.  Thread hijacks just happen on every board I visit.  Sort of like I go to Youtube looking for how to install a doorknob and end up watching drag racing crashes and they walked away.  

Sort of surprised no one else has had this fault pop up.  I did do some research on that subject before posting and found nothing.  Will report back after addressing the issue and solution.

[Mellow]

found this.

 

https://www.k1600forum.com/threads/oil-leak-after-transmission-recall.194931/post-2503164

[mophead]

Went to dealer in OKC to see about the adaptive headlight failure message.  They could not find anything on their scan that showed a failure message.  The message popped up three times on my way to OKC but they could not find it.  Apparently the message has to be on the TFT screen before they can run diagnostics.  

 

They had not seen this message on any bikes before.  Sending note to Motherland to see if they have seen it.  I'm guessing the sensor in the headlight needs calibrating or replacement.  After I left the dealer and headed home it got real cloudy around Weatherford, OK and the message popped up again. 

 

They did update the software while there.  No surprises after the update.  Nice folks there at Eurotek. 

 

We shall see.

 

 

[mophead]

Another thought that may or may not be related.  My bike will slow itself down in a corner if it thinks I'm going too fast.  Favorite road has some 55 mph curves that can easily be made at 80 mph+.  If running on cruise once the lean angle reaches a certain point, the bike will slow down.  It can be overridden with throttle to increase speed.  I told that to the mechanic and he was unaware the bike would do that.

 

Is slowing down in a corner a normal thing for these bikes or is it maybe related to the adaptive headlight warning message?  Just grasping at straws.

[strataj]

5 hours ago, mophead said:

Another thought that may or may not be related.  My bike will slow itself down in a corner if it thinks I'm going too fast.  Favorite road has some 55 mph curves that can easily be made at 80 mph+.  If running on cruise once the lean angle reaches a certain point, the bike will slow down.  It can be overridden with throttle to increase speed.  I told that to the mechanic and he was unaware the bike would do that.

 

Is slowing down in a corner a normal thing for these bikes or is it maybe related to the adaptive headlight warning message?  Just grasping at straws.

I've had the same on my 22R1250RT, I believe it's the active cruise control slowing down because of the road ahead (guard rail, rock wall). same when you are too close to the car in-front of you.   

[JCtx]

I'm surprised you can do ANY lean angle with cruise engaged (especially in the litigious US). So I bet it's programmed behavior. Cruise is not recommended in curves even on cars, let alone motorcycles, where the tire circumference decreases as lean angle increases, slowing the bike down, then cruise accelerating to keep up with set speed. It must get very jerky, so not good for stability. Try weaving a little on your own lane with cruise engaged, and you'll see what I'm talking about. Just don't do it.

[bimmers]

I guess the feature lovers are primed for electric bikes......

I have a 2006 with the modern outstanding servo brakes................they went away quite fast but were unique at the introduction, guess luddites never warmed up to them.....

I understood cruise control is not available over 85mph, lean angle may be another limitation.

Have not looked at the LED side but on cars the adaptive and most modern systems are LED matrix based. Different LEDs light up for different patterns, there may be mirrors/reflectors as well. 

All these systems are largely software based with actuators of some kind, over the lifetime of almost all new SW systems they get many updates, that mean they develop further all the time and some are discarded or replaced by new systems all in the name of safety. Reducing the "responsibility" of the rider to a minimum and allowing Lawyers to multiply and take over the life of all of us............

 

Anyway after all of this I think BMW makes wonderful machines and riding does get a little less dangerous when on your own, but the rest of the traffic gets worse and worse and everyone/thing  on the road has to be deemed a danger to a motorcyclist.

 

Safe riding 
H

[dirtrider]

14 hours ago, JCtx said:

I'm surprised you can do ANY lean angle with cruise engaged (especially in the litigious US). So I bet it's programmed behavior. Cruise is not recommended in curves even on cars, let alone motorcycles, where the tire circumference decreases as lean angle increases, slowing the bike down, then cruise accelerating to keep up with set speed. It must get very jerky, so not good for stability. Try weaving a little on your own lane with cruise engaged, and you'll see what I'm talking about. Just don't do it.

Afternoon JCtx

 

Yes, in a lean the motorcycle will slow down slightly but the cruise control doesn't monitor or react to actual vehicle speed. (cruise doesn't know vehicle speed vs off-motorcycle factors)

 

It monitors & reacts to wheel RPM's. The actual wheel RPM shouldn't change much. It (cruise control) would probably react more to the drag of forcing a leaned motorcycle through a curve & that reaction should be slower & more progressive.

 

My bigger concern would be a sudden & violent drop of engine power to the rear wheel in a leaned over curve if the cruise control suddenly dropped the throttle. 

 

 

[JCtx]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

The actual wheel RPM shouldn't change much.

It changes a lot. If you're not into math, just try it, as I said. You'll immediate feel the effect, even when leaning just a little within your lane.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, JCtx said:

It changes a lot. If you're not into math, just try it, as I said. You'll immediate feel the effect, even when leaning just a little within your lane.

Afternoon JCtx

 

Yes, with a (held or fixed position throttle) the motorcycle slows down in a lean due to the reduced outer tire diameter but the tire (wheel) is then spinning faster causing the speed sensor pulse input to be the same or higher. You are basing your feel on visual, or other inputs like GPS, or air speed feel, or body movement feel. The cruise control is basing it's speed control on wheel rotations per minute or per mile. 

 

If the (leaned) wheel rotation RPM increases at the  same rate as the motorcycle slows down there is 0 net gain or loss at the cruise control's  input signal. 

 

 

 

[Hati]

19 hours ago, JCtx said:

Cruise is not recommended in curves even on cars, let alone motorcycles, where the tire circumference decreases as lean angle increases, slowing the bike down, then cruise accelerating to keep up with set speed.

 

Define "curve". I just came back from a 1300 km trip. Bitumen, mostly A and B roads, speed limit of 110km/h with bends/curves needing on average 25 degree lean angle at that speed. I know I was doing 110 km/h real speed, checked with GPS over sufficient distances to rule out GPS lag..

 

Firstly, there was no slowdown in displayed speed. None. This tells me that the speed reading for the dash is derived from wheel speed. The fact that the reading works with no phone connected to the bike backs that up. Nothing new here, most land vehicles derive their speed reading from tyre RPM.

 

You then claim that cruise will accelerate to. "keep up" with the set speed. Except the bike does NOT know what actual speed it is doing, only has wheel speed input available to keep up with. Given the bike has no idea about its ground speed (for lack of better term), the cruise control will not change anything, because the wheel RPM does not change. 

 

I don't question the actual slowing down (slightly), if the bike is leaning and therefore uses a slightly smaller circumference of the tyre toward the side wall.

 

19 hours ago, JCtx said:

It must get very jerky, so not good for stability.

 

No, it does not, because of the reasoning above. This (my reasoning) is backed up by watching the numbers displayed on the dash. It is a habit developed as a consequence of heavy handed highway policing in this country.

 

I will give you that if the cruise control was getting its speed input via satellite or some other external source, it would indeed attempt to correct the slight slowing down, if it falls outside of the tolerance range of + or - 1 mile (I believe). However, as it stands, you are incorrect I am afraid.

 

I cannot be bothered to look up the formulas and tyre dimensions for the hoops we use on these bikes, to work out the actual speed loss that results in leaning and how that changes with the lean angle. My seat of the pants meter says it is a minuscule amount of speed difference and I would not be surprised if that was true.

[Bluenoser]

The cruise does react to lean angle. I've not had it react as such other than when actually going into a curve, smooth and measured reduction in speed in my experience. I've not tried it with sudden lean angle, I'm guessing the reaction would be in proportion to the suddenness of the lean. I don't plan to try it.

[JCtx]

I hardly ever use cruise control; only when my right ear is hurting, or need to open a left jacket vent, etc., which requires momentary use of my right hand. Or if a cop is behind, so I don't accidentally speed, but both hands remain on the controls, ready for anything. Just the way my bike reacts to weaving with cruise control, dissuades me to even wanting to try it in a curve. I can (mildly) weave without cruise control and constant throttle at 70 mph, and it's smooth. But if I use cruise, the bike slows down dramatically, then it accelerates briskly, in a jerky fashion. TRY IT. So can only imagine the reaction if I was cornering with more lean angle, and needed to evade something. Don't understand exactly why it's doing that, but it does. Just wanted to warn you of that, but since you just don't listen, hope you don't find out the hard way it's not wise to ride curves with cruise control. At least hope you're doing it with both hands on the controls, and feet where they should be for cornering (not with half the boot below the pegs). I'm out of here. It's an adaptive headlight thread anyway.

[Hati]

It 

2 hours ago, JCtx said:

I hardly ever use cruise control

 

So then your experience WITH cruise is bugger all to next to nothing. I guess that would explain why one would want to wave in his lane at 110 km/h. You are not in a Moto GP round and the slight use of the side of the tyre by waving will have negligeable effect on squaring from prolonged highway runs. But hey, feel free to believe what you please. 

 

2 hours ago, JCtx said:

I can (mildly) weave without cruise control and constant throttle at 70 mph, and it's smooth

 

What is smooth? I thought this was about the cruise being abrupt or something...

 

2 hours ago, JCtx said:

But if I use cruise, the bike slows down dramatically, then it accelerates briskly, in a jerky fashion. TRY IT

 

Cruise control is designed to be used when traversing long distances at a steady speed, among many other reasons. I guess the design engineers failed to think of a dude who will wave madly at speed for no reason other than he can. I refuse to try something that makes no sense.

 

2 hours ago, JCtx said:

So can only imagine the reaction if I was cornering with more lean angle, and needed to evade something

 

Define "more lean angle". My 25 to 30 degree angles at those speeds with cruise engaged were as smooth as any straight run. I now have over 62000 km on my '21 RT and have used the cruise probably 90% of those miles. Without issues, Bends or straights. Radar cruise or traditional cruise. Must be missing something....

 

2 hours ago, JCtx said:

Don't understand exactly why it's doing that, but it does.

 

There is your problem dude. Why not try to work out what is going on, get some facts lined up and open a discussion on it? As it is you could be telling us that the earth is flat. Am I supposed to believe that too? 

 

2 hours ago, JCtx said:

it's not wise to ride curves with cruise control.

 

Sure. When the manufacturers of motorcycles with cruise controls fitted come out and say that their bikes cannot be used on cruise controls while going around bends (most modern high capacity bikes have cruise now and many have radar guided cruise too), I will listen. 

 

2 hours ago, JCtx said:

At least hope you're doing it with both hands on the controls, and feet where they should be for cornering (not with half the boot below the pegs).

 

I have done a number of advanced rider training sessions, I think I'll be ok, but thanks for the concern.

 

2 hours ago, JCtx said:

I'm out of here. It's an adaptive headlight thread anyway.

 

Why? Just because someone came and picked at the holes in your theory? This is a discussion forum after all, is it not? We are discussing it. I just countered your theory with some facts and experiences. Feel free to respond, but maybe in a dedicated thread. Instead of slamming the door on the way out why not look into this, maybe even send an email to BMW *Germany) and ask them what is it you are experiencing and come back with the response.

 

 

[Rougarou]

I commute daily on a 2006 rt and 2019gsa.  I use cruise 'cause after this many years of riding the same fifty mile route, it's kinda boring.  Anyway, some of my route is back roads and has some curves, I've not noticed any jerkyness while using cruise in these curves.

[Rougarou]

On 4/27/2024 at 12:24 PM, bimmers said:

 

I understood cruise control is not available over 85mph,

 

Safe riding 
H

No, it works above 85

[bimmers]

On a closed circuit and private road . 

Thought I saw it in the manual, might have been dreaming..

Never tried to set it while standing still, have to try that. 

 

H

[Rougarou]

17 minutes ago, bimmers said:

On a closed circuit and private road . 

Thought I saw it in the manual, might have been dreaming..

Never tried to set it while standing still, have to try that. 

 

H

 

That wasn't set while standing still

[bimmers]

👍

[mophead]

Where is the sensor for the adaptive headlight?  I draped a towel over the headlight to try and create darkness enough to get the adaptive headlight failure message.  Did not work.  

Looked on parts fiche for headlight sensor and did not see anything specific.  Guessing it must be in the headlight housing itself.  Trying to find a way to get the message to come up while at the dealer so they can see it for themselves.  As I understand the message has to be displayed so they can get into the diagnostics.  Even though the message popped up three times on the way to the dealer they did not show a code or message when they checked.

Just trying to eliminate possible causes to help them identify the problem.

[Mellow]

I'm thinking the sensor may be built into the TFT screen / dash somewhere... try that?

[Rougarou]

6 minutes ago, Mellow said:

I'm thinking the sensor may be built into the TFT screen / dash somewhere... try that?

 

Methinks on the older bikes the light sensor is in the dash so that's prolly a logical place to check

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, mophead said:

Where is the sensor for the adaptive headlight?  I draped a towel over the headlight to try and create darkness enough to get the adaptive headlight failure message.  Did not work.  

Looked on parts fiche for headlight sensor and did not see anything specific.  Guessing it must be in the headlight housing itself.  Trying to find a way to get the message to come up while at the dealer so they can see it for themselves.  As I understand the message has to be displayed so they can get into the diagnostics.  Even though the message popped up three times on the way to the dealer they did not show a code or message when they checked.

Just trying to eliminate possible causes to help them identify the problem.

Afternoon mophead

 

I'm not sure but most likely on the rear face of the TFT or on the top of the TFT.

 

If it's on the rear (part you look at while riding) is there any chance that your TFT still has the factory protective film on it? If so that could be effecting it's light sensing ability.  

 

Instead of doing it in the daylight with a towel maybe try looking at night using a narrow beam flashlight or pocket light looking for the reverse operation.

 

Just keep in mind there is probably some delay built into the system so it doesn't keep switching when riding under trees or shaded areas.