2 questions about front brake '02 R1150R

[steve68]

I had some sluggish throttle return, so dis-assembled the throttle assembly for cleaing and inspection. In that process, noticed that the front brake line from reservoir to calipers was under some tension.  Back story: At end of last season, I had a mechanically inclined friend change my brake line to stainless braided, but the kit I got online was a bit short.  To accommodate this, I believe he loosened the whole reservoir assembly, put on the new brake line attaching it to the reservoir and other end to calipers, then rotated the reservoir back as much as he could then tightened the bolt.  I noticed that the dot on the arm of the

bracket that secures the brake master reservoir to the handlebar was not aligned with anything.  There is a small indented mark on the handlebar that appears to be a guide for locating the master reservoir assembly correctly.

 

1) what is the placement of the assembly on handlebar relative the the indentation on the handlebar?  I.E. how does the bracket "dot" align with the handlebar indented mark?

 

2) I need to extend the brake line to get a bit more slack.  I have a short segment of braided line that I can insert, but I believe the internal diameter is smaller than the brake line currently on the bike.  Will having a segment with smaller diameter affect the hydraulics of the line?

 

Sorry if this is confusing.   

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Steven

[dirtrider]

19 minutes ago, steve68 said:

I had some sluggish throttle return, so dis-assembled the throttle assembly for cleaing and inspection. In that process, noticed that the front brake line from reservoir to calipers was under some tension.  Back story: At end of last season, I had a mechanically inclined friend change my brake line to stainless braided, but the kit I got online was a bit short.  To accommodate this, I believe he loosened the whole reservoir assembly, put on the new brake line attaching it to the reservoir and other end to calipers, then rotated the reservoir back as much as he could then tightened the bolt.  I noticed that the dot on the arm of the

bracket that secures the brake master reservoir to the handlebar was not aligned with anything.  There is a small indented mark on the handlebar that appears to be a guide for locating the master reservoir assembly correctly.

 

1) what is the placement of the assembly on handlebar relative the the indentation on the handlebar?  I.E. how does the bracket "dot" align with the handlebar indented mark?

 

2) I need to extend the brake line to get a bit more slack.  I have a short segment of braided line that I can insert, but I believe the internal diameter is smaller than the brake line currently on the bike.  Will having a segment with smaller diameter affect the hydraulics of the line?

 

Sorry if this is confusing.   

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Steven

Morning Steven

 

I don't have anything specific on the 1150R but the 1150 GS is:  "align dot on handlebar with gap between clamp". 

 

As far as brake hose size, a little smaller ID is not a big deal but it can't be too small as to cause a flow restriction in an emergency quick brake application.

 

It sounds like you have no ABS system is this correct? If you still have ABS, or are using the ABS brake line manifold to attach the upper brake hose to the lower front hose then you can unbolt the Tee manifold  & make a short bracket to move it up a little therefor easing the strain on the too-short upper hose. 

 

If you have a factory non-ABS motorcycle then you might be able to move the factory (Tee with bleed screw) up, or rotate it, or loosen & reposition it, to gain a little more upper hose slack.

[steve68]

Perfect.  Yes, non-ABS.

 

Amazing  how quickly, thoroughly, and consistently you answer these questions dirtrider.

 

Much appreciated.

[dirtrider]

7 minutes ago, steve68 said:

Perfect.  Yes, non-ABS.

 

Amazing  how quickly, thoroughly, and consistently you answer these questions dirtrider.

 

Much appreciated.

Morning Steven

 

Does that upper hose go all the way to the caliper, or to a Tee just above the front fender. Or does it go to a junction block part way down then on to the front calipers?

[steve68]

Here is a photo of the current arrangement.  The upper bit goes to up to the master cylinder.  I was thinking of trying reverse the orientation of that "splitter" and the banjo bolt connecting the top hose.

[dirtrider]

30 minutes ago, steve68 said:

Here is a photo of the current arrangement.  The upper bit goes to up to the master cylinder.  I was thinking of trying reverse the orientation of that "splitter" and the banjo bolt connecting the top hose.

Afternoon Steven

 

That was a sloppy job, your friend needs to work on his skills a little more. 

 

Yes, reversing that junction block might help. (see if you can post a picture of the junction block to caliper hose run),  you probably want the short hose on the throttle R/H (twist grip) side with the longer hose going over the fender. 

 

You should also find a way to securely attach that junction block with a bolt so it doesn't beat your fender to death.  

 

The hose going into that junction block seems to have the wrong angle fitting for your application. 

 

 

[steve68]

I have to agree about the workmanship.  Can try to snap a photo later of the junction box --> caliper run.   I'll start by trying to reverse the splitter.  May be limited by the orientation of the banjo bolts at the calipers.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Steven

 

I think you should have a bracket with stud on the R/H fork leg that the junction block bolts to (looks like a broken bolt in your fork leg that it was attached to)

 

 

[steve68]

Probably end up with a zip tie situation.

[Hosstage]

I hate to say it, but that picture looks like a road repair made to get it home so it can be fixed properly.

Why is there a "jumper" hose from the top hose to the manifold? I've honestly never seen anything like that before. A proper length upper hose should be used to go directly from the master cylinder to the manifold.

[steve68]

I purchased a Galfer stainless brake line kit online (I think through Ebay) and it came with this crazy set up.  Maybe it was initially meant for a different bike and they threw in the jumper to (almost) fit the R1150R.  Or maybe it was just a crappy set.   Brakes work fine, I've never been too concerned about appearance/cosmetics.

[Redfoxx]

12 minutes ago, steve68 said:

I purchased a Galfer stainless brake line kit online (I think through Ebay) and it came with this crazy set up.  Maybe it was initially meant for a different bike and they threw in the jumper to (almost) fit the R1150R.  Or maybe it was just a crappy set.   Brakes work fine, I've never been too concerned about appearance/cosmetics.

 

I ordered the Galfer Set for R1150RT and set fit perfect. So maybe wrong set or maybe set for ABS version if there is one. 

[steve68]

Yeah, I'll probably macguyver this one so I can get out and ride, and order a replacement to swap out at some point.

[Lowndes]

Steve68,

 

If you remove the banjo bolt from the manifold/junction block and turn that banjo fitting upside down (the line should exit the banjo going away from the junction block), and reinstall the bolt I'd bet it will work, allow you to mount the block on the fork, and give you more slack in the line going up to the master cyl.

 

It might be easier to drill and tap a new mounting hole rather than trying to remove the broken screw in the fork.  Plenty of room there.

 

I believe that short section of braided line just above the block is for the hydraulic clutch system, specifically the bleeder extension from the top of the slave cyl on the back of the trans.  Interesting use of it to lengthen that line. 

 

If your buddy didn't replace the flexible hoses in the hydraulic clutch system you should replace those for the same reason as the brake system replacement.  If that was the only section that did not get replaced and the OEM line is still there at least you have the line.  

 

You can order lines in any lengths and with any fittings you want from Galfer and Spiegler and reasonable prices.  https://spieglerusa.com/brakes/brake-lines-accessories-tools/custom-brake-lines.html

 

This is the Clutch slave cyl with the line from the master cyl/lever (left) and the line to the remote bleeder (right).  You can get to the slave cyl on my bike by removing the rear wheel and rear shock.  The factory mount for the bleeder is that silver color frame tube with a zip-tie.

 

Remote clutch bleeder (I ordered a 12" line to make it easy to get to.

 

This is the bleeder mounted in the OEM protective black foam rubber cushion zip tied to the right side passenger footpeg strut.

    

[steve68]

So  I was able to clean out the cable junction box - working smoothly.

I reoriented the brake lines and got more slack, so that's all set, although still looks like a roadside repair...

However, I think I found the root of the sluggish throttle return issue.  In the 

pic below, (of an old

master cylinder reservoir that I stripped the banjo bolt threads so can't use)

the yellow arrow shows the top mirror insertion, the purple arrow
shows the lower passage for the end of the mirror stalk. In this pic the lower 

hole looks nice and intact.

 

On this second pic (the reservoircurrently on the bike) the colored arrows show the same parts,

however you  can see a crack where the end of the mirror stalk goes. The crack is about 2-3 mm wide.

 

A section of the metal is slightly bent out (red arrow below) and presses on the thin plastic piece (not shown) that separates the reservoir assembly from the the throttle control, causing it to rub a bit.

 

If I can some how give that piece a few clunks with a hammer, I may be able to bend it in and relieve the rub.....

If not, probably better to replace the whole assembly again I guess...

 

Maybe tomorrow.

 

Steven

[steve68]

Thanks for the info Lowndes.  Adjusting the banjo bolt definitely helped.

Before:

 

After:

 

I would think that short intermediate segment would be too short to serve as a  clutch output cylinder bleed line.

[Lowndes]

Where does this line go??  It should be going down to the left caliper.

 

[steve68]

\\\\

 

Yes, you can see it in pic above, goes through the mounted ring and then down to the L caliper (obscured by the fender)

[steve68]

By the way, this is how I positioned the brake master res on the handlebar:

 

 

It wasn't until I took a pic with a flash that I noticed the line etched across surface of the clamp.

[dirtrider]

Quote

I would think that short intermediate segment would be too short to serve as a  clutch output cylinder bleed line.

Morning  steve68

 

Not only too short but the 90° banjo bolt  fitting would be wrong for slave attachment as those are usually 180° (flat). 

 

What does the front brake hose attachment look like going into the master cylinder, possibly you can gain some more length in that area by swapping the hose (or hoses)  attachment direction around. 

 

Most of those Galfer  braided lines can have the ends rotated in relation to the hose (should be a how-to on the  Galfer  web site). 

[steve68]

Thanks dirtrider, I was able to gain some slack with the above reorientation of that splitter above.

[dirtrider]

26 minutes ago, steve68 said:

Thanks dirtrider, I was able to gain some slack with the above reorientation of that splitter above.

Morning steve68

 

Is that slack with it sitting on it's wheels or at full extension (like sitting of the center stand with a little weight on the rear).

 

When riding it will eventually go to full extension so that also needs to be accounted for.  

[steve68]

This is on the center stand with the front wheel off the ground.  It is certainly more slack than the line has had for the past few months.

 

 

Thanks.

[steve68]

With all this brake line stuff, I guess I should not reuse the copper washers.  Not sure if they are crush washers but I believe so.  By my measurements, 12 mm I.D. 14 mm O.D.  Are these available in your local automotive place, or am I going to need to order online?

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, steve68 said:

With all this brake line stuff, I guess I should not reuse the copper washers.  Not sure if they are crush washers but I believe so.  By my measurements, 12 mm I.D. 14 mm O.D.  Are these available in your local automotive place, or am I going to need to order online?

Afternoon  steve68

 

It depends om the auto parts store, if a good one with real car parts (not just a glorified dollar store) then they should have some. 

 

If not you can anneal yours, they will be a soft & good as new. 

 

Personally, I usually just reuse if in good condition & were only used jus once before. Never had any leaks. 

[steve68]

Will start with reusing.  Worst case  scenario - leak. Won't be the  first time.

[steve68]

BTW I have never annealed anything.  I appreciate that you thought I would know how to do that.  Do I just take a heating gun and heat to glowing red and that's that?

[dirtrider]

21 minutes ago, steve68 said:

BTW I have never annealed anything.  I appreciate that you thought I would know how to do that.  Do I just take a heating gun and heat to glowing red and that's that?

Afternoon  steve68

 

Just hang on a wire or opened paper clip, then heat to an even dull red (don't overheat as that leaves scale & can ruin the surface).  Don't hold with a pliers as that will leave a cold or cooler spot. 

 

Then allow to cool slowly.  

[steve68]

Sounds simple enough.  But not quite as simple as reusing.  Have a good weekend and thanks for all the help and recommendations.