2005 1200RT startup

[JPA]

I've had a few intermittent startup issues and was hoping to get some feedback on where to start looking.

 

1-3 are 'cold start' scenarios with fully charge battery.

 

1. Not sitting on bike. Bike is up on center stand and side stand is down. Turn key,  await checks to complete,  push start button - bike turns over but does not start.   Tried a few times and gently turned the throttle, no change, does not start.

2. Sitting on bike. Side stand up.  Turn key, await checks to complete, push start button - bike turns over with same result - no start.

3. Move bike off center stand.  Sitting on bike, flip side stand down and then up again.  Turn key, await checks to complete - bike turns over and starts.

 

Problem seems to go away for a few days or weeks, then out of the blue, the same thing repeats itself.  

 

The odd time I've been out riding for a few hours and after a short stop, get on the bike to start,  lights come on, checks complete, and push start button.  Nothing/dada, no engine turn over.  If I turn key off/on,  let checks complete and flip side stand up/down,  this often provides the 'fix' needed to get it going and get me home. This has happened twice now in the last week or two which is a little too often for comfort.

 

Thoughts?  Feedback"

 

[TassieRT1200]

My opinion it's a faulty side stand cut out switch. 

[dirtrider]

13 hours ago, JPA said:

I've had a few intermittent startup issues and was hoping to get some feedback on where to start looking.

 

1-3 are 'cold start' scenarios with fully charge battery.

 

1. Not sitting on bike. Bike is up on center stand and side stand is down. Turn key,  await checks to complete,  push start button - bike turns over but does not start.   Tried a few times and gently turned the throttle, no change, does not start.

2. Sitting on bike. Side stand up.  Turn key, await checks to complete, push start button - bike turns over with same result - no start.

3. Move bike off center stand.  Sitting on bike, flip side stand down and then up again.  Turn key, await checks to complete - bike turns over and starts.

 

Problem seems to go away for a few days or weeks, then out of the blue, the same thing repeats itself.  

 

The odd time I've been out riding for a few hours and after a short stop, get on the bike to start,  lights come on, checks complete, and push start button.  Nothing/dada, no engine turn over.  If I turn key off/on,  let checks complete and flip side stand up/down,  this often provides the 'fix' needed to get it going and get me home. This has happened twice now in the last week or two which is a little too often for comfort.

 

Thoughts?  Feedback"

 

Morning  JPA

 

Will it start with the clutch lever pulled in???

 

Was the dash neutral light on when the problem was happening?  (the neutral light condition will sometimes tell you something)

 

Usually with a bad side stand switch they won't even crank over unless the clutch lever is pulled in.

 

 You might have a loose side stand in the upper bushing area. 

 

With motorcycle on center stand & side stand down, grab the foot of the side stand & see how far it moves side to side. If really loose then possibly a side stand switch checksum issue (as GS-911 will usually catch this)

 

Also look to see if the side stand switch at the top of side stand is missing the little retaining clip.

 

You can sort of test the side stand switch vs position by putting the motorcycle on the center stand (rear wheel off the ground) then allowing engine to idle in first gear. With it idling in gear & side stand up try pulling or pushing on the side stand in & out to see if the engine quits. If it does then you either have a bad side stand switch or a very loose side stand. Putting side stand down should kill the engine.

 

Next test is to put motorcycle in first gear then try starting it with clutch lever pulled in, (will it start?). If the clutch switch is working it should crank over. 

 

It sort of sounds like side stand switch but the cranking part doesn't necessarily fit that exactly.   

 

[JPA]

Thanks for the quick feedback.   I took a close look at the switch and sure enough,  the small circular retaining clip is no where to be found and there is some play in the stand.   Looks like I have a small maintenance project lined up.

 

I saw a couple of youtube vids where some folks are bypassing the switch.  Seems a rather easy fix to rid yourself of a potential nuisance.  Is this recommended? 

[lkraus]

NO, it is an important safety feature.  Disable it only after it fails, and then only temporarily.

I think you may also have some other issue. The engine turning over but not starting does not sound like a switch problem.  If the switch indicates the stand is down while in gear, it will kill a running engine, but it will also not even let the starter spin, clutch pulled in or not.  If you are in neutral, the switch position does not matter.

 

The start failures in 1. and 2. could be due to cold temperatures and starting procedure.  Below about 40-45°F, my '06 RT requires the throttle be slightly opened before hitting the start button or it will crank until the battery dies without starting.  This is in accordance with the owners manual.  Opening the throttle after the starter begins to spin makes no difference.

 

Sounds like in 3. the engine did not spin initially?  That and the hot start failure might be due to the loose switch.

[dirtrider]

57 minutes ago, JPA said:

 

I saw a couple of youtube vids where some folks are bypassing the switch.  Seems a rather easy fix to rid yourself of a potential nuisance.  Is this recommended? 

Afternoon  JPA

 

It is only recommended if you don't care about your motorcycle or your safety,  riding off with the side stand down can become a BIG/BIG problem very quickly.

 

Not that big of a deal to fix it correctly. 

 

Get a new clip & it is also probably  missing the washer, & clip retainer  (you can probably find a new clip at a local auto parts store, or even a good hardware store. 6mm ID external circlip will usually work OK, washer has a  6mm hole in it. Or all 3 pieces from BMW are little over $6.00. You can probably buy from you local BMW dealer on a credit card & have them mail the very small parts to you in a small envelope. 

 

On tightening up the side stand, that is not an easy operation but can be done (there are 2 different types of stand pivot designs so it depends on the design as to how you tighten it up). If just a worn bushing (early parts) & those alone fix it then not a bad job. If you have to alter the pivot  bushing  length then that is more involved. 

[JPA]

Below about 40-45°F, my '06 RT requires the throttle be slightly opened before hitting the start button or it will crank until the battery dies without starting.  This is in accordance with the owners manual.

 

I didn't know this, and what's worse, I have a copy of the owner's manual under the seat!     I'll fix the switch for sure.  I've stalled the bike more than a few times trying to ride away with the stand down so the bypass solution is probably not a good idea for me.

 

Thanks again for the quick feedback.  

[wbw6cos]

Perhaps you were not familiar with the infamous motorcycle forum acronym RTFM.  

[dirtrider]

12 hours ago, JPA said:

Below about 40-45°F, my '06 RT requires the throttle be slightly opened before hitting the start button or it will crank until the battery dies without starting.  This is in accordance with the owners manual.

 

I didn't know this, and what's worse, I have a copy of the owner's manual under the seat!     I'll fix the switch for sure.  I've stalled the bike more than a few times trying to ride away with the stand down so the bypass solution is probably not a good idea for me.

 

Thanks again for the quick feedback.  

Morning  JPA

 

The problem with JUST thinking it is cold engine throttle position is that you posted this above__

 

The odd time I've been out riding for a few hours and after a short stop, get on the bike to start,  lights come on, checks complete, and push start button.  Nothing/dada, no engine turn over.  If I turn key off/on,  let checks complete and flip side stand up/down,  this often provides the 'fix' needed to get it going and get me home. This has happened twice now in the last week or two which is a little too often for comfort.

 

This wasn't caused by throttle position during engine starting, this more points towards a side stand switch or neutral switch.

 

Also, in number (1) you posted__         1. Not sitting on bike. Bike is up on center stand and side stand is down. Turn key,  await checks to complete,  push start button - bike turns over but does not start.   Tried a few times and gently turned the throttle, no change, does not start.

 

This also points to something  other than throttle position during engine starting. Unless you weren't actually  turning the throttle while the engine was cranking. 

[lkraus]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

Also, in number (1) you posted__         1. Not sitting on bike. Bike is up on center stand and side stand is down. Turn key,  await checks to complete,  push start button - bike turns over but does not start.   Tried a few times and gently turned the throttle, no change, does not start.

 

This also points to something  other than throttle position during engine starting. Unless you weren't actually  turning the throttle while the engine was cranking. 

In cold weather, my cold '06 RT will not start unless I slightly open the throttle BEFORE pressing the starter button.  Opening the throttle after the engine begins to turn over has no effect.

 

JPA described four no-start situations, two of which could have been cold temperature issues, but were definitely not sidestand switch problems, because the engine did turn over.  Gear position and clutch do not matter if the sidestand switch indicates the stand is down - it will not crank.  If the switch indicates the stand is up, it does not affect starting at all.

 

One of the failed cold starts and the hot start failures are likely caused by the loose switch, because the starter did not spin.

[JPA]

I managed to get a retaining clip from a local shop. Pulled the switch and cleaned everything in and around - no small task from your knees - I need to invest in a bike lift.  It took a bit of doing but got it all cleaned and re-assembled.  Eyes closed and fingers crossed attempting to start the bike afterwards and it worked!  Tested functionality of the switch kicking bike into gear with stand down and engine shuts down so that is a success!   Am always intimidated with wiring/electrical but this was not that bad.  Re-assembly of all the little pieces was a pain for sure, but it's another feather in the cap and I learned something.

 

I was quite surprised how grimy and dirty the area was.  Will be checking things a little more deliberately down there going forward. 

 

Now, the other issue I described - bike turns over but doesn't start - this has only happened a handful of times in the last few months but it's a little worrisome. It's a colder time of year - 5 degrees C in early morning when I ride to work so will try and remember to twist the throttle before pushing start button.   Will monitor for a few days to see what happens.