2004 R1100S idle issues

[wcpeterson2]

Good afternoon!

 

I have a 2004 R1100S that I got from my dad and it has approximately 22k miles. The bike was not running when i got it from him as it had sat for probably 12-14 years. I ended up getting it running after replacing the gas tank, fuel pump, fuel filter and all 4 spark plugs. While trying to sync the throttle bodies I noticed the right cylinder was not running. I pulled the right side plugs and checked for spark and both have spark. to further check I swapped coils sticks and the issue stayed on the right side. I metered the wires going to the coils and was getting the correct voltage. I pulled the injector out of the right throttle body and it has a good spray pattern. The bike is idling rough and low (generally between 700ish and 1000rpm) but feels smooth at higher rpm. When it is idling I can manually rotate the left throttle body and rpm increases but when I try to rotate the right throttle body manually there is no change in rpm. I disconnected both spark plugs on the right cylinder at idle and there was no change in rpm. Sometimes after I shut the bike down it feels like both cylinder heads are roughly the same temperature and other times the right cylinder is much colder. Compression feels the same on each side (granted I have not checked with a gauge, it just feels like the same pressure coming out of each side with the spark plugs out). I am kind of at a loss here unless it has something to do with the right throttle body not working as it should. Any and all guidance would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance!

[wcpeterson2]

Also I want to add that even when the right cylinder is colder, I have pulled the spark plugs on the right side and they were not wet, which is causing me to think the throttle body is not operating correctly.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, wcpeterson2 said:

Good afternoon!

 

I have a 2004 R1100S that I got from my dad and it has approximately 22k miles. The bike was not running when i got it from him as it had sat for probably 12-14 years. I ended up getting it running after replacing the gas tank, fuel pump, fuel filter and all 4 spark plugs. While trying to sync the throttle bodies I noticed the right cylinder was not running. I pulled the right side plugs and checked for spark and both have spark. to further check I swapped coils sticks and the issue stayed on the right side. I metered the wires going to the coils and was getting the correct voltage. I pulled the injector out of the right throttle body and it has a good spray pattern. The bike is idling rough and low (generally between 700ish and 1000rpm) but feels smooth at higher rpm. When it is idling I can manually rotate the left throttle body and rpm increases but when I try to rotate the right throttle body manually there is no change in rpm. I disconnected both spark plugs on the right cylinder at idle and there was no change in rpm. Sometimes after I shut the bike down it feels like both cylinder heads are roughly the same temperature and other times the right cylinder is much colder. Compression feels the same on each side (granted I have not checked with a gauge, it just feels like the same pressure coming out of each side with the spark plugs out). I am kind of at a loss here unless it has something to do with the right throttle body not working as it should. Any and all guidance would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance!

Afternoon wcpeterson2

 

Right off the top, you can not open the R/H throttle plate by itself as there is no TPS (throttle Position Sensor) on the R/H side so opening the R/H throttle plate ONLY lets in air without any fuel to go with the air. It needs the L/H side opened at the same time as that is what controls the actual fueling for BOTH sides. 

As far as what you are dealing with, it sort of sounds like the R/H throttle plate is opening before the L/H side. That is usually caused by the R/H side throttle cable not being DOWN IN the cable adjuster but instead the cable is incorrectly sitting on top of the adjuster.

 

It could also be caused by the throttle body cross side balance being way off. Check & make sure that both side throttle cams start lifting off of the throttle stop screws at EXACTLY the same time when you twist the throttle grip. 

 

If you can, you should also do a good throttle plate balance so both sides match on opening & closing. You can make a simple homemade U tube manometer to balance the throttle bodies. There are vacuum fittings on each throttle body to attach the manometer to. 

 

[wcpeterson2]

Oh! I did not know that the right throttle body could not be operated individually. I have a carb/throttle body synchronizer so I will go ahead and go through the process of syncing them. I will try that this afternoon and be back with the results! Thank you so much for the insight!

[dirtrider]

58 minutes ago, wcpeterson2 said:

Oh! I did not know that the right throttle body could not be operated individually. I have a carb/throttle body synchronizer so I will go ahead and go through the process of syncing them. I will try that this afternoon and be back with the results! Thank you so much for the insight!

Afternoon wcpeterson2

 

On the BMW boxers the throttle body balance vacuum  is pretty  low as you are measuring the delta BETWEEN each throttle body, not measuring against atmospheric pressure. The BMW boxer is usually synced in inches of H2o (water) not inches of Hg (mercury) like a lot of old carburetors are. 

 

Remember that just 1" Hg (mercury) equals 13.6" of H2o so you can see how using inches of mercury (most vacuum gauges read in that) is not a very accurate way to balance the BMW boxer throttle bodies.   Plus, on the BMW 2 cylinder boxer, the intake pulses are violent so most gauge type balancing devices have a large amount of needle bonce or oscillations making gauge reading accuracy very difficult.  

[Lowndes]

WCPeterson2,

 

WELCOME to the forum!!

 

And, Congrats on your R11S!!  Coming from your Dad makes it extra special, too.  

 

You are getting the very best guidance available anywhere on your oilhead from Dirtrider.  Just follow his directions explicitly and you will get it running right very quickly.  I learn something about these BMW's every time I read one of his posts.

 

What brand of carb/throttle body synchronizer do you have??  Wouldn't be a "Harmonizer", would it??

 

If you don't already have one, a Clymer manual (#M503-3) for the R11S will come in very handy.  You can usually find them on fleabay.

 

We like pics!!  Post some pics of your bike when you can.

 

 

Lowndes

 

 

[taylor1]

2 hours ago, Lowndes said:

 

What brand of carb/throttle body synchronizer do you have??  Wouldn't be a "Harmonizer", would it??

Thats funny. Don't want to hijack, but I am going to synch my T.B.s today with a harmonizrer.

[wcpeterson2]

6 hours ago, Lowndes said:

WCPeterson2,

 

WELCOME to the forum!!

 

And, Congrats on your R11S!!  Coming from your Dad makes it extra special, too.  

 

You are getting the very best guidance available anywhere on your oilhead from Dirtrider.  Just follow his directions explicitly and you will get it running right very quickly.  I learn something about these BMW's every time I read one of his posts.

 

What brand of carb/throttle body synchronizer do you have??  Wouldn't be a "Harmonizer", would it??

 

If you don't already have one, a Clymer manual (#M503-3) for the R11S will come in very handy.  You can usually find them on fleabay.

 

We like pics!!  Post some pics of your bike when you can.

 

 

Lowndes

 

 

The synchronizer I have is a CarbMate TS-110. I was doing some research about syncing throttle bodies and a few of the videos I watched, they were using this synchronizer so I went ahead and ordered it. I know I have a manual for it I just dont know from who off the top of my head.

 

[wcpeterson2]

[wcpeterson2]

[wcpeterson2]

A few pics of it. dont mind the messy garage lol and it also has brand new tires on it

[wbw6cos]

Looks  great.

 

By the way, I always love checking other members' garage set-ups in the backgrounds of photos; your photos do not reveal too much, so you are safe.   However, I would like to take the r/c car for a spin.                         

[Redfoxx]

5 hours ago, wcpeterson2 said:

The synchronizer I have is a CarbMate TS-110. I was doing some research about syncing throttle bodies and a few of the videos I watched, they were using this synchronizer so I went ahead and ordered it. I know I have a manual for it I just dont know from who off the top of my head.

 

 I have the Techmate Carbmate TS-110, I have had good luck syncing, easy to use. Appears to do a good job. 

[wcpeterson2]

1 hour ago, Redfoxx said:

 I have the Techmate Carbmate TS-110, I have had good luck syncing, easy to use. Appears to do a good job. 

so the videos I had watched said to set the throttle cables first at 3000 rpm to balance them off of idle. I tried that and nothing I did would bring it down from pulling harder on the right (as I understand it. it's constantly staying at +4 to the right throttle body.) adjusting the right idle air screws is having no effect on rpm, or on the synchronizer. it appears that the throttle cable adjuster is seized in the housing for it

[Lowndes]

THAT is a REALLY NICE R11S!!  Gorgeous!!  Bar risers??  That stock seat is like sitting on a brick.  Just one brick.  You can add luggage racks and side cases if you want to do any overnight.  There is a lower bracket for each side case that is very hard to find but a very serviceable alternative can be made.  And, DO NOT LOSE that pillion cover.

 

BUT...it looks like the adjustment ferrule has a bad case of knackered threads.  Did someone overtighten the locknut, maybe?? Looks like it has tool marks on it.  Maybe thought the bracket wasn't threaded and the nut was for adjustment.  Excellent resolution on your camera.

 

Could be the problem you are chasing is what got the bike sidelined years ago to begin with.

 

Can't really tell what is going on there but the good news is that little adjuster can't be too much to replace.  But the cable going thru it WILL BE too much if you can't replace just that ferrule.  You may need to chase the female threads in the bracket with a tap or same-thread bolt if you can get it apart.  The two jaws may be sprung apart some, and slightly misaligned, too.

 

Dirtrider will be along and will get it sorted

 

[wcpeterson2]

Most recent update: I was able to get the adjustment screw loose and able to move by hand on the right side and reinstalled the right throttle body. i hooked the synchronizer back up and before starting the bike i set the baseline of the vacuum to the dead center of the zone. then i started the bike and the indicator moved to the +4 on the right and no matter what i did (reved the bike up and tried adjusting idle air screws) it would not move off of the +4 on the right indication. I am kind of at a loss on what to try next or really how the synchronizer is supposed to work but i was able to adjust the the cables to bring the idle up to a more stable rpm(1200-1400). that being said, as far as i am aware, if it it pulling more to the right side like it is i would need to turn the left idle air screw out/counterclockwise and turn the right idle air screw in/clockwise.

[Michaelr11]

1 hour ago, wcpeterson2 said:

that being said, as far as i am aware, if it it pulling more to the right side like it is i would need to turn the left idle air screw out/counterclockwise and turn the right idle air screw in/clockwise.

 

Vacuum is higher at idle.  If the right side is showing +, then you have to either make the right side cable tighter (counter-clockwise) or make the left cable looser (clockwise). That said, you MUST start out with free play on the throttle cables on both sides. If the cable, at idle, is already lifting the throttle plate you will never get it balanced properly.

 

[wcpeterson2]

19 minutes ago, Michaelr11 said:

 

Vacuum is higher at idle.  If the right side is showing +, then you have to either make the right side cable tighter (counter-clockwise) or make the left cable looser (clockwise). That said, you MUST start out with free play on the throttle cables on both sides. If the cable, at idle, is already lifting the throttle plate you will never get it balanced properly.

 

oh ok. so should i give them both free play before setting them at the above idle setting. then tighten the the lock nuts and then adjust them at via the idle air screws? or is there no real need to set them at 3000 rpm before adjusting them at idle? this is my first time having to sync throttle bodies because my first bike was an 06 cbr 1000rr

[Michaelr11]

50 minutes ago, wcpeterson2 said:

oh ok. so should i give them both free play before setting them at the above idle setting. then tighten the the lock nuts and then adjust them at via the idle air screws? or is there no real need to set them at 3000 rpm before adjusting them at idle? this is my first time having to sync throttle bodies because my first bike was an 06 cbr 1000rr

Think of this as two separate process - each should not effect the other.  Before anything, adjust valve clearances.  Next, warm up engine by riding 10 or more miles.  Now, you must have free play on both throttle cable sides or balancing is a waste of time.  Set idle balance by adjusting the big brass screws, they are also called the air bypass screws, but everyone calls them big brass screws (BBS). Before trying to balance idle, remove the screws and clean the black crud off. Once you have idle balanced and set to proper rpm, balance throttle bodies off-idle. you can set balance at 2000 rpm, check after at 3 or 4, but do the work at 2000. This is balanced by changing the throttle cable lengths, not by changing the big brass screws. If you have free play, the idle balance should not have changed.

[dirtrider]

13 hours ago, wcpeterson2 said:

Most recent update: I was able to get the adjustment screw loose and able to move by hand on the right side and reinstalled the right throttle body. i hooked the synchronizer back up and before starting the bike i set the baseline of the vacuum to the dead center of the zone. then i started the bike and the indicator moved to the +4 on the right and no matter what i did (reved the bike up and tried adjusting idle air screws) it would not move off of the +4 on the right indication. I am kind of at a loss on what to try next or really how the synchronizer is supposed to work but i was able to adjust the the cables to bring the idle up to a more stable rpm(1200-1400). that being said, as far as i am aware, if it it pulling more to the right side like it is i would need to turn the left idle air screw out/counterclockwise and turn the right idle air screw in/clockwise.

Morning  wcpeterson2

 

FIRST THING__ hook both meter hoses to the SAME side using a vacuum Tee, then verify that both L & R on the meter read the same at both idle & at 3000 RPM's. This is MUST before you can trust the meter as accurate. Even then, personally I don't like those box meters, I WAY/WAY/WAY more trust a homemade manometer for final accuracy. (nothing to adjust, check, verify, fool-with on a simple U tube manometer)

 

Once the meter accuracy  is trustworthy then hook the meter hoses to the correct sides, then verify that you have cable slack on BOTH sides with the choke all the way OFF.  I typically set (loosen) the cable slack for both sides with the main cable adjuster up by the twist grip. That way I can just remove that added cable  slack (equally on both sides) when finished balancing using that same main cable adjuster.  (keeps things simple & accurate)

 

You don't want a lot of cable slack, just enough that the cables are not tight on either side (best place to get that slight cable slack is on the main throttle cable adjuster under a rubber boot up by the twist grip). Easy to get EVEN cable slack there & easy to get rid of the excess cable slack after the TB balance procedure.

 

Then start the engine (without using the choke) & check/adjust the idle balance & curb idle with a warm engine (put a fan blowing on the engine to keep it & the exhaust header pipes cool).

 

The curb idle (base idle) cross side balance must be set first as that can effect the above idle balance. Never set the above-idle (3000-3500) first as it can change if/when you do the curb idle balance. 

 

Once the curb idle (base idle) cross side  balance & curb idle RPM is set (this must be done first), THEN check & adjust  the above idle cross-side balance (at about 3000-3500 RPM) . Use the cables adjusters at the TB's for the above idle balance adjustment. 

 

If the   3000-3500 is off then adjust that. Just keep in mind the HIGHER the vacuum reading the MORE CLOSED that side throttle plate is. Think of the throttle plate as a vacuum leak lowering the vacuum on that side, so the farther open the throttle plate is the more air that it leaks into that side, so the lower the vacuum reading on that side.

 

Then allow to go back to idle,  then slowing & lightly open the throttle a little using the twist grip. You want to see both sides stay close to even balance as the throttle is slightly opened from idle (if it doesn't then recheck things, plus, you might have to make some compromise. It's that area of just opening the throttle to about 2000 RPM's that the rider feels the most in engine smoothness & surging. The farther the throttle is opened the less effect a slight off-balance has on engine operation as the engine vacuum drops as the throttle is opened farther allowing more air through.  

 

On first time balancing, it REALLY helps to push on the throttle cable with a finger (or lightly move the throttle cam) while watching the meter (BEFORE adjusting anything) as that shows what way the meter will move when you make the cable adjustment.  

 

When all done with the balancing, check/remove the excess cable slack, there should be a main cable adjuster (adjusts cable slack on both sides equally) up by the twist grip under a rubber sleeve. This is usually where I put the pre-balance cable slack IN the system for both sides equally so I don' have to mess with adding cable slack then removing that cable slack individually before, during, or after the final balance settings.    

 

REMEMBER___ more CLOSED throttle plate = higher vacuum showing on the meter. 

 

REMEMBER___ more OPEN throttle plate = lower vacuum showing on the meter.  

 

Backwards of what most first time users think! 

 

If you are having difficulty getting the balance to move correctly, or to do what you think it should, or react properly then (make darn sure there are no vacuum leaks in the intake boots between each throttle body & the engine cylinder head) an air leak in that area can drive you crazy getting it adjusted correctly.   

 

Another point__ valve adjustment can effect the throttle body balance so the valve adjustment should be done before a throttle body balance. I know you just want to get it running & rideable so that is OK but if/when you do get around to adjusting the valve lash keep in mind that IF you move anything on the valve train you should do a new throttle body cross side balance check. 

 

A second point__ the BBS brass screws on the throttle bodies are used to set/adjust idle cross side balance. On older BMW boxers or higher mile boxers the screw tips & air passages under the screws tend to coke up  & block air flow, or at least effect proper idle cross side balance. The BBS screws should really be removed & cleaned, as well as the passages under the screws cleaned, BEFORE doing any meaningful throttle body balancing.

 

A third  point__ Never move, or try to adjust the base idle stop screws on the throttle bodies, those are factory set, must be correct, & are a REAL PAIN get them back where they need to be. (it can be done but not for a first or 2nd time BMW project as it is complicated & fiddly). 

 

Added later: if that motorcycle has been sitting/stored for a long time then open the air filter box cover & make sure that mice or chip monks haven built a nest in the air box restricting air flow to the throttle bodies. 

 

 

[wcpeterson2]

7 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning  wcpeterson2

 

FIRST THING__ hook both meter hoses to the SAME side using a vacuum Tee, then verify that both L & R on the meter read the same at both idle & at 3000 RPM's. This is MUST before you can trust the meter as accurate. Even then, personally I don't like those box meters, I WAY/WAY/WAY more trust a homemade manometer for final accuracy. (nothing to adjust, check, verify, fool-with on a simple U tube manometer)

 

Once the meter accuracy  is trustworthy then hook the meter hoses to the correct sides, then verify that you have cable slack on BOTH sides with the choke all the way OFF.  I typically set (loosen) the cable slack for both sides with the main cable adjuster up by the twist grip. That way I can just remove that added cable  slack (equally on both sides) when finished balancing using that same main cable adjuster.  (keeps things simple & accurate)

 

You don't want a lot of cable slack, just enough that the cables are not tight on either side (best place to get that slight cable slack is on the main throttle cable adjuster under a rubber boot up by the twist grip). Easy to get EVEN cable slack there & easy to get rid of the excess cable slack after the TB balance procedure.

 

Then start the engine (without using the choke) & check/adjust the idle balance & curb idle with a warm engine (put a fan blowing on the engine to keep it & the exhaust header pipes cool).

 

The curb idle (base idle) cross side balance must be set first as that can effect the above idle balance. Never set the above-idle (3000-3500) first as it can change if/when you do the curb idle balance. 

 

Once the curb idle (base idle) cross side  balance & curb idle RPM is set (this must be done first), THEN check & adjust  the above idle cross-side balance (at about 3000-3500 RPM) . Use the cables adjusters at the TB's for the above idle balance adjustment. 

 

If the   3000-3500 is off then adjust that. Just keep in mind the HIGHER the vacuum reading the MORE CLOSED that side throttle plate is. Think of the throttle plate as a vacuum leak lowering the vacuum on that side, so the farther open the throttle plate is the more air that it leaks into that side, so the lower the vacuum reading on that side.

 

Then allow to go back to idle,  then slowing & lightly open the throttle a little using the twist grip. You want to see both sides stay close to even balance as the throttle is slightly opened from idle (if it doesn't then recheck things, plus, you might have to make some compromise. It's that area of just opening the throttle to about 2000 RPM's that the rider feels the most in engine smoothness & surging. The farther the throttle is opened the less effect a slight off-balance has on engine operation as the engine vacuum drops as the throttle is opened farther allowing more air through.  

 

On first time balancing, it REALLY helps to push on the throttle cable with a finger (or lightly move the throttle cam) while watching the meter (BEFORE adjusting anything) as that shows what way the meter will move when you make the cable adjustment.  

 

When all done with the balancing, check/remove the excess cable slack, there should be a main cable adjuster (adjusts cable slack on both sides equally) up by the twist grip under a rubber sleeve. This is usually where I put the pre-balance cable slack IN the system for both sides equally so I don' have to mess with adding cable slack then removing that cable slack individually before, during, or after the final balance settings.    

 

REMEMBER___ more CLOSED throttle plate = higher vacuum showing on the meter. 

 

REMEMBER___ more OPEN throttle plate = lower vacuum showing on the meter.  

 

Backwards of what most first time users think! 

 

If you are having difficulty getting the balance to move correctly, or to do what you think it should, or react properly then (make darn sure there are no vacuum leaks in the intake boots between each throttle body & the engine cylinder head) an air leak in that area can drive you crazy getting it adjusted correctly.   

 

Another point__ valve adjustment can effect the throttle body balance so the valve adjustment should be done before a throttle body balance. I know you just want to get it running & rideable so that is OK but if/when you do get around to adjusting the valve lash keep in mind that IF you move anything on the valve train you should do a new throttle body cross side balance check. 

 

A second point__ the BBS brass screws on the throttle bodies are used to set/adjust idle cross side balance. On older BMW boxers or higher mile boxers the screw tips & air passages under the screws tend to coke up  & block air flow, or at least effect proper idle cross side balance. The BBS screws should really be removed & cleaned, as well as the passages under the screws cleaned, BEFORE doing any meaningful throttle body balancing.

 

A third  point__ Never move, or try to adjust the base idle stop screws on the throttle bodies, those are factory set, must be correct, & are a REAL PAIN get them back where they need to be. (it can be done but not for a first or 2nd time BMW project as it is complicated & fiddly). 

 

Added later: if that motorcycle has been sitting/stored for a long time then open the air filter box cover & make sure that mice or chip monks haven built a nest in the air box restricting air flow to the throttle bodies. 

 

 

Good news! I was able to get the idle setting balanced. possible bad news is it is still pulling more on the right above idle but every time I adjust it off idle it throws the idle off. I have all three points of the throttle cable with slack (at the twist grip and at each throttle body. should I: A) take the slack out at the twist grip first then left throttle body and then adjust the right? or B) take the slack out of the left first then adjust the right and at the end set the adjuster at the twist grip?

[wcpeterson2]

also I'm not sure if this is relevant but when I manually actuate the left throttle body it pulls more to the left and when I manually actuate the right throttle body it pulls more to the right. but whenever I use the twist grip it pulls right

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, wcpeterson2 said:

Good news! I was able to get the idle setting balanced. possible bad news is it is still pulling more on the right above idle but every time I adjust it off idle it throws the idle off. I have all three points of the throttle cable with slack (at the twist grip and at each throttle body. should I: A) take the slack out at the twist grip first then left throttle body and then adjust the right? or B) take the slack out of the left first then adjust the right and at the end set the adjuster at the twist grip?

Afternoon   wcpeterson2

 

You need to explain what "pulling more" is referring to?

 

Explain it in terms of higher or lower vacuum on each side. 

 

Lower vacuum means it is pulling more air through the throttle plate (larger vacuum leak), 

 

Higher vacuum means it is pulling less air through the throttle plate (smaller vacuum leak), 

 

These are usually talked about in higher or lower vacuum, not pulling anything. As using pulling is a very confusing term. 

 

Something (undefined at this time) is happening IF adjusting it off (above) idle is then throwing the idle off when it returns to idle. If the short cables (at the throttle bodies)  both have slack when it returns to idle then something is causing that & that isn't your above idle adjustment as that has no effect on curb idle balance. 

 

Are you SURE there are no vacuum leaks in the intake boots????????????????

 

Are the throttle body shafts & throttle shaft bushings somewhat tight????????? Very little air leaking in through the throttle shaft bushings? Leakage at the throttle shafts can cause all kinds of vacuum irregularities as it returns to curb idle.  

 

Is your Carbmate TS-110 balancer working correctly? With both hoses hooked to one side throttle body does it show a perfect-return-to-idle cross-side balance?????????????????? Some of those old balance boxes just don't return to the same idle reading at throttle closing as they sometimes stick a little inside.

If you get a handle on the return-to-idle being repetitive then just build U tube manometer, those thing are crazy accurate (better than any balance box on the market, nothing to stick or read incorrectly) the only down side is if the balance is way off they can quickly suck the water out of the tube, but the longer the U tube height the less apt that is to happen. I usually use a brake hose clamp on one side tube then slowly release it watching for one side to go real high (then correct that with a coarse adjustment before fully releasing the brake hose clamp) 

 

Things to try___ try completely removing the throttle cables from each side throttle body cam. THEN set the idle RPM's & set the idle cross side balance using the BBS screws.

 

Then, open & close each side throttle body by hand  & see it returns to an even cross side balance. 

 

Then leave the idle alone & don't mess with it again. Just do the 3000-3500rpm balance. 

 

Personally (on that long-sitting motorcycle)  I would get the idle cross side balance as close as you can, then set the 3000-3500 RPM balance as best possible. 

 

Then ride the motorcycle for a while to allow the valves to full seat to valve seats (there could be some crud or corrosion on the valve seats or valve margins). 

 

Maybe run some Techron through the fuel system to clean the injectors (injectors should not effect the cross side vacuum but sure can effect how the engine runs & accelerates. 

 

You might also remove the rear air tubes from the air box to the throttle bodies (slide them back into the air box) then look into the rear of the throttle bodies to see if there is a lot of black carbon/coking in the throttle plate area. That can prevent the throttle plates from returning to the same close-throttle position at each throttle release. 

____________________________________________________

 

Have you done a TPS relearn? That needs to be done if the battery was dead, removed or run down. The fueling computer needs to know where the curb idle actually is & it gets it's information from the TPS sensor. This won't change the vacuum or balance but can sure make it run better at throttle up.

 

There was change in fuse box design between the early & late 1100S bikes & I can't remember what fuse is the Motronic fuse on the later 1100 S bikes. I don't that info handy where I am at now. 

 

So I will give you the TPS relearn by using a battery disconnect rather than just the Motronic fuse removal just to be sure. 

 

 To do a TPS re-learn--

 

(with choke OFF)

*Remove  (a battery cable)  for about 5 minutes, then re-install the cable.

Then

*Switch on the ignition switch. (do not start engine)

Then

*Without starting the engine, fully open the throttle twice so that 
the Fueling Computer can register the throttle-valve position. You can fully open/close the L/H throttle cam twice if the cables are not adjusted yet.

then

*Switch off the ignition.

That's it, that re-teaches the TPS where closed & open throttle is.
 

 

 

 

 

[wcpeterson2]

52 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

52 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon   wcpeterson2

 

You need to explain what "pulling more" is referring to?

 

Explain it in terms of higher or lower vacuum on each side. 

 

Lower vacuum means it is pulling more air through the throttle plate (larger vacuum leak), 

 

Higher vacuum means it is pulling less air through the throttle plate (smaller vacuum leak), 

 

These are usually talked about in higher or lower vacuum, not pulling anything. As using pulling is a very confusing term. 

 

Something (undefined at this time) is happening IF adjusting it off (above) idle is then throwing the idle off when it returns to idle. If the short cables (at the throttle bodies)  both have slack when it returns to idle then something is causing that & that isn't your above idle adjustment as that has no effect on curb idle balance. 

 

Are you SURE there are no vacuum leaks in the intake boots????????????????

 

Are the throttle body shafts & throttle shaft bushings somewhat tight????????? Very little air leaking in through the throttle shaft bushings? Leakage at the throttle shafts can cause all kinds of vacuum irregularities as it returns to curb idle.  

 

Is your Carbmate TS-110 balancer working correctly? With both hoses hooked to one side throttle body does it show a perfect-return-to-idle cross-side balance?????????????????? Some of those old balance boxes just don't return to the same idle reading at throttle closing as they sometimes stick a little inside.

If you get a handle on the return-to-idle being repetitive then just build U tube manometer, those thing are crazy accurate (better than any balance box on the market, nothing to stick or read incorrectly) the only down side is if the balance is way off they can quickly suck the water out of the tube, but the longer the U tube height the less apt that is to happen. I usually use a brake hose clamp on one side tube then slowly release it watching for one side to go real high (then correct that with a coarse adjustment before fully releasing the brake hose clamp) 

 

Things to try___ try completely removing the throttle cables from each side throttle body cam. THEN set the idle RPM's & set the idle cross side balance using the BBS screws.

 

Then, open & close each side throttle body by hand  & see it returns to an even cross side balance. 

 

Then leave the idle alone & don't mess with it again. Just do the 3000-3500rpm balance. 

 

Personally (on that long-sitting motorcycle)  I would get the idle cross side balance as close as you can, then set the 3000-3500 RPM balance as best possible. 

 

Then ride the motorcycle for a while to allow the valves to full seat to valve seats (there could be some crud or corrosion on the valve seats or valve margins). 

 

Maybe run some Techron through the fuel system to clean the injectors (injectors should not effect the cross side vacuum but sure can effect how the engine runs & accelerates. 

 

You might also remove the rear air tubes from the air box to the throttle bodies (slide them back into the air box) then look into the rear of the throttle bodies to see if there is a lot of black carbon/coking in the throttle plate area. That can prevent the throttle plates from returning to the same close-throttle position at each throttle release. 

____________________________________________________

 

Have you done a TPS relearn? That needs to be done if the battery was dead, removed or run down. The fueling computer needs to know where the curb idle actually is & it gets it's information from the TPS sensor. This won't change the vacuum or balance but can sure make it run better at throttle up.

 

There was change in fuse box design between the early & late 1100S bikes & I can't remember what fuse is the Motronic fuse on the later 1100 S bikes. I don't that info handy where I am at now. 

 

So I will give you the TPS relearn by using a battery disconnect rather than just the Motronic fuse removal just to be sure. 

 

 To do a TPS re-learn--

 

(with choke OFF)

*Remove  (a battery cable)  for about 5 minutes, then re-install the cable.

Then

*Switch on the ignition switch. (do not start engine)

Then

*Without starting the engine, fully open the throttle twice so that 
the Fueling Computer can register the throttle-valve position. You can fully open/close the L/H throttle cam twice if the cables are not adjusted yet.

then

*Switch off the ignition.

That's it, that re-teaches the TPS where closed & open throttle is.
 

 

 

 

 

So when i was saying pulling more to the right, it was at +4 towards the right side throttle body indicator (left is displayed as -4). after being confused about why it was reading the way it was i decided to make adjustments to get a mental baseline of what did what. While doing this i was able to get the off idle to be balanced and it did not affect the idle balance. i secured all points of the throttle cables and put the vacuum lines back on and rode around. bike is running great and idle is smooth at around 1200 rpm. I GREATLY appreciate all of the help from everyone and your patience (i understand how frustrating it can be trying to walk a first timer through things especially over an internet forum) but thank you thank you thank you all so much for the help!

[dirtrider]

17 minutes ago, wcpeterson2 said:

 

Afternoon wcpeterson2

 

Ok that is good news as it sounds like you are getting a handle on the adjustment process. 

 

Be sure to do the TPS relearn.

 

But I was just about to do a "MORE INFO" post as the above one was getting pretty long & complicated. 

 

You might not be done yet__

 

With you having all the cables being real loose & not having a game plan to put them back where they were you might now have a choke issue.

 

On a warm engine put the choke on (it really isn't a choke as it is JUST a fast idle device).

 

You need to see the warm engine RPM increase to about 1800-2000 or someplace in that area (give or take).  If you get too much RPM increase on a warm engine then both lower throttle cables (short cables) are adjusted too tight & need to be backed off then a new above idle balance done.

 

If you don't get enough RPM increase with the choke on then the lower cables are too  long so they will need to be shortened then an above idle rebalance  until  you get the correct choke-on RPM increase. 

 

Once you get the choke vs lower cables set you can then use the upper (main cable adjuster) to remove or add  twist grip slack so you have a decent feeling twist grip feel without a lot of slack feeling.  

 

There is a choke cable adjuster up by the choke lever but that is more for fine tuning the cold fast idle so it stays running cold. The coarse adjustment is in the lower cable lengths.   

 

You got ahead of me on working faster than I can think then type.  

[wcpeterson2]

5 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

With you having all the cables being real loose & not having a game plan to put them back where they were you might now have a choke issue.

 

On a warm engine put the choke on (it really isn't a choke as it is JUST a fast idle device).

 

You need to see the warm engine RPM increase to about 1800-2000 or someplace in that area (give or take).  If you get too much RPM increase on a warm engine then both lower throttle cables (short cables) are adjusted too tight & need to be backed off then a new above idle balance done.

 

If you don't get enough RPM increase with the choke on then the lower cables are too  long so they will need to be shortened then an above idle rebalance  until  you get the correct choke on RPM increase. 

 

You got ahead of me on working faster than I can think then type.  

this might be a dumb question. but i dont think ive ever seen a choke cable on a fuel injected bike. where would that be located?

[dirtrider]

7 minutes ago, wcpeterson2 said:

this might be a dumb question. but i dont think ive ever seen a choke cable on a fuel injected bike. where would that be located?

Afternoon wcpeterson2

 

It is electronic fuel injection but not electronic idle or electronic  fast idle. It is labeled a choke but as mentioned above it is JUST a fast idle lever for cold engine RPM increase for starting & just after engine starting. Look on the L/H side handlebar just inboard of the inside end of the rubber hand grip. 

 

Just follow the choke cable up to the L/H side clutch lever area. 

[wcpeterson2]

13 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon wcpeterson2

 

It is electronic fuel injection but not electronic idle or electronic  fast idle. It is labeled a choke but as mentioned above it is JUST a fast idle lever for cold engine RPM increase for starting & just after engine starting. Look on the L/H side handlebar just inboard of the inside end of the rubber hand grip. 

well ill be damned! i found the fast idle lever and when putting it on, the idle rpm increased by about 600 rpm (from 1200 up to 1800).

[dirtrider]

32 minutes ago, wcpeterson2 said:

well ill be damned! i found the fast idle lever and when putting it on, the idle rpm increased by about 600 rpm (from 1200 up to 1800).

Afternoon wcpeterson2

 

Good news, just let it go there, if you have starting issues or problems staying running in real cold weather just find the upper cable adjuster then add a little more choke RPM.

 

You are about to learn something else. The choke lever has another (spring loaded position) once the choke lever is on you can manually lift the lever another position against a spring (needs to be held there)  that is for hard starting or very cold weather starting.

 

Personally I just manually hold the twist grip about 1/8 +/-  open for starting in in real cold weather. 

 

That 1200 idle RPM is just a bit high, and it might gain some more as you start riding that motorcycle. You might eventually need to bring it down to around 1100 RPM's. Just live with the 1200 until you ride it some more & it settles in.    

[wcpeterson2]

4 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon wcpeterson2

 

Good news, just let it go there, if you have starting issues or problems staying running in real cold weather just find the upper cable adjuster then add a little more choke RPM.

 

You are about to learn something else. The choke lever has another (spring loaded position) once the choke lever is on you can manually lift the lever another position against a spring (needs to be held there)  that is for hard staring or very cold weather starting.

 

Personally I just manually hold the twist grip about 1/8 +/-  open for starting in in real cold weather. 

yes! i did notice that there was the two positions for it and that it needed to be held past the detent to be full on. thank you so much for all of the help!