Can fuel controller intermittently work? Or does it just die, period?

[KDeline]

R1200RTP, 2009, 100,000 miles. Engine just started to cut on and off while riding, not stumbling but total engine shutdown. I have had a controller go out on a different bike before but it just stopped, no warning, no more running. While riding I kicked and moved the side stand up and down thinking it could be the cut off switch, seemed to help but could be a coincidence. Last 40 miles home no issues. GS 911 only fault code was a faulty clutch switch, not present now but on this bike I always get that code. Cannot get it to fail again in garage, or within blocks of the house.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, KDeline said:

R1200RTP, 100,000 miles. Engine just started to cut on and off while riding, not stumbling but total engine shutdown. I have had a controller go out on a different bike before but it just stopped, no warning, no more running. While riding I kicked and moved the side stand up and down thinking it could be the cut off switch, seemed to help but could be a coincidence. Last 40 miles home no issues. GS 911 only fault code was a faulty clutch switch, not present now but on this bike I always get that code. Cannot get it to fail again in garage, or within blocks of the house.

Afternoon KDeline

 

It's slightly possible that your FPC could act like that but fairly unlikely. 

 

What year 1200RT are you working with?

 

What color is your FPC? If still the low fin aluminum colored FPC then those did have issues.

 

It does sound more like a possible side stand issue, can you move the foot of the side stand very far latterly with it both up then down?  (the side stand pivot bushing area can get pretty loose on older well used 100RT's)

 

It might not show a side stand error if the system thinks the stand deployment was intentional. But trapped data should show IF it was actually in the deployed position at engine stall.

 

If you can set your GS-911 to trap data while riding, then when you get a stall, you can go back & view the trapped data to see IF the side stand was shown to be down with the trans in gear causing the engine stall. 

 

You might also be able to look at the real time data to look at the side stand position as you wiggle the stand sideways with it in the UP position.  

 

If you can quickly get it into neutral when the stall is happening that should bring the engine back alive if it was the side stand switch causing the problem, as in neutral it doesn't care if the stand is up or down. 

 

 

[KDeline]

I knew I missed something, it’s a 2009. Just added it in. Everything on the side stand seems tight and sound, I don’t see anything blatantly obvious or loose. also watched the GS 911 reaction when I moved the stand up and down. It did show retracted and extended with a long throw of the stand. Very slight delays in showing the information but another bike tested the same way. I just checked the controller, unplugged and plugged in the wires again everything seems clean and tight. I’m almost thinking that was a shiny metal Controller. I’ll have to look at it again just to make sure.

[DBULL]

My son has a 2007 RT.  On a ride a few years ago, his bike would suddenly stop running (usually on decelerating but not always).    After a long search, a friend we have taken bikes to found a bad sensor (I believe crankshaft).  It's been perfect sense.  I am not 100% that is the correct name, and will check with him, but almost positive.  The bike would start within minutes after stalling, so we were never stranded-but surely frustrated on a long ride

[KDeline]

My assumption is, this is the controller you said had issues as it’s metallic?

[dirtrider]

9 minutes ago, KDeline said:

My assumption is, this is the controller you said had issues as it’s metallic?

Evening  KDeline

 

That is the old style (usually not found on the 2009 bikes) so it was either replaced at one time or possibly some RT-P bikes came with the early one. 

 

You probably want to remove that FPC then turn it over & look at the bottom.  If the electronic panel on the bottom of the FPC is bubbly looking, or wet, then for sure replace it. It also looks like it has some green corrosion on the lower edge. 

 

If the well under the FPC has water in it then also make sure the silicone FPC seal is not degraded (plus replace the FPC).

 

Even if that isn't your problem the FPC should be replaced. (the new one will be black powder coated). There was some porosity issues on the non coated early ones.

 

You might also want to buy (or build) an FPS by-pass cable the runs the fuel pump directly from the battery to get you home if your FPC fully fails.  

[KDeline]

I do have the bypass cable, just wasn’t carrying it with me today. I will check under that unit and see what it looks like.

[dirtrider]

1 minute ago, KDeline said:

I do have the bypass cable, just wasn’t carrying it with me today. I will check under that unit and see what it looks like.

Evening  KDeline

 

You must have been a Boy Scout, always prepared  (well almost anyhow). 

[KDeline]

Yes, does me a lot of good sitting on the shelf in the garage huh? Dry as a bone, and the bottom of the controller to me looks good. I think I read on this forum, possibly from you that it also depended on the color of the seal as what controller I had?

[dirtrider]

31 minutes ago, KDeline said:

Yes, does me a lot of good sitting on the shelf in the garage huh? Dry as a bone, and the bottom of the controller to me looks good. I think I read on this forum, possibly from you that it also depended on the color of the seal as what controller I had?

Evening  KDeline

 

Yes, seal color can indicate a later replacement, the mid & late 1200 bikes came with a turquoise seal & most black-high-fin  replacements came with an orange seal (I can't say that is 100% but from what I have personally seen).

 

The bottom looks decent, I can't say if that will tell you that you have a good one but a bubbly one usually tells you that you have a bad one ,or at least one that will probably fail. 

[dirtrider]

Evening  KDeline

 

You didn't get that stall when coming off a high speed run or right after exiting the freeway did you? If it stalled at your first closed-throttle slowdown after riding for a while at a sustained speed with little throttle movement then it's possible that you had a lost idle stepper. 

 

You usually get that one stall then it's Ok after a restart, then it happens again after a somewhat long ride with little throttle movement.    After the stall your steppers re-set (re-home) at the key-off,  then key ON restart.

 

A lost stepper won't show in the GS-911 data as the stepper is LOST, the fueling computer knows where the stepper was COMMANDED to be  but the stepper pintle is not where the computer thinks it is as there is no position feedback to the fueling computer as they are only 4 wire steppers.   

[KDeline]

No, I was moving steadily along and it hiccuped, and then it progressively got more often. Full engine shut down, then started again kind of like a bucking bronco. And when I say started again, I had not pulled in the clutch. It just had power again. So I was not using the starter other than one time. As I was trying to get home, it would just stop in and out, sometimes one second, sometimes 4 to 5 seconds. Pulled up to a light and it was idling and then just died. Started it and went on my way. A few more hiccups, and then it didn’t do it for the last 40 miles. That’s why I wonder if it’s the fuel pump controller. It’s got to be either that or a sensor, but the kickstand sensor just looks really perfect condition no play whatsoever. Well, I’ve played with the wires on the fuel pump, I’m going to take it out for a short ride and see what happens.

[dirtrider]

10 minutes ago, KDeline said:

No, I was moving steadily along and it hiccuped, and then it progressively got more often. Full engine shut down, then started again kind of like a bucking bronco. As I was trying to get home, it would just stop in and out, sometimes one second, sometimes 4 to 5 seconds. Pulled up to a light and it was idling and then just died. Started it and went on my way. It didn’t do it for the last 40 miles. That’s why I wonder if it’s the fuel pump controller. It’s got to be either that or a sensor, but the kickstand sensor just looks really perfect condition no play whatsoever.

Evening  KDeline

 

OK that pretty well eliminates the steppers.

 

Any chance you have some water in your fuel tank?

 

That isn't typical on how the FPC fails but it is electronic so who knows what it could do. The FPC usually leaves a fault that the GS-911 sees but I have seen a few FPC failures  that didn't leave any faults.

 

Usually with an engine sensor problem it will leave a fault that the GS-911 will see.

 

With it idling you might grab the wire pigtail going to the ignition switch then wiggle it around to see if you get a stumble or engine quit. 

 

If it was out sitting in a lot of rain then don't discount water in the fuel, those old hexheds usually have a rusted shut fuel tank filler drain tube in the pump pass through & a number have slightly leaking fuel caps so possibly water could get into the tank.    

[TEDZ]

The bowden box door on my Hexhead opened on me and I had similar symptoms.  Intermittent cut out.  Was frustrating to diagnose in the Smokies.

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, TEDZ said:

The bowden box door on my Hexhead opened on me and I had similar symptoms.  Intermittent cut out.  Was frustrating to diagnose in the Smokies.

Morning  TEDZ

 

This shouldn't cause a total engine stall like KDeline has. The splitter box cover opening can effect the cruise control operation & could cause problems throttling up (if the spring comes loose and the cams migrate) but it should still have been able to idle OK.  

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

On 2/11/2024 at 4:17 PM, dirtrider said:

Even if that isn't your problem the FPC should be replaced. (the new one will be black powder coated). There was some porosity issues on the non coated early ones.

 

 

This was a recall item.  The FPC on my '09 R1200RT failed after a year of ownership; I got it replaced under warranty, and later found out that it was a common failure and that a recall had been implemented to replace all of the old-style ones with the new type that tolerated water exposure better. 

 

FWIW, I experienced both types of failure before taking the bike back to the dealer for repair.  The first time, it was just an all-or-nothing engine shutdown; my tank was almost empty at the time, so I chalked it up to fuel starvation, shook the bike around a bit to try to get more fuel over to the sump, and was then able to start it up and ride a mile to a gas station.  It was a month or two later when I started having hiccups and stumbling similar to what Ken described and realized it was an actual equipment problem.

 

@KDeline, if that's the original FPC, contact your dealer and ask about a recall replacement. If they're weasels about it, PM me and I'll send you a brand new FPC I've got sitting on my shelf.  

 

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

 

This was a recall item.  The FPC on my '09 R1200RT failed after a year of ownership; I got it replaced under warranty, and later found out that it was a common failure and that a recall had been implemented to replace all of the old-style ones with the new type that tolerated water exposure better. 

 

FWIW, I experienced both types of failure before taking the bike back to the dealer for repair.  The first time, it was just an all-or-nothing engine shutdown; my tank was almost empty at the time, so I chalked it up to fuel starvation, shook the bike around a bit to try to get more fuel over to the sump, and was then able to start it up and ride a mile to a gas station.  It was a month or two later when I started having hiccups and stumbling similar to what Ken described and realized it was an actual equipment problem.

 

@KDeline, if that's the original FPC, contact your dealer and ask about a recall replacement. If they're weasels about it, PM me and I'll send you a brand new FPC I've got sitting on my shelf.  

 

Morning Mitch

 

I'm not sure BMW had an actual recall on the 1200 FPC, I never received a recall notice on either of my hexhead 1200 bikes (on both I was the original owner).

 

BMW had some fuel pump leakage recalls, first a reinforcement ring then if still leakage at a later date an entire pump assembly replacement.  

 

BMW did have some sort of a service advisory to replace the original FPC sealing gasket with the later one, I'm not sure how this worked at dealer level. If they just replaced it when the motorcycle was in for service, or replaced when water was found in the FPC connector well,  or on request, or ???? .  

 

BMW did have (at least my dealer did) a no questions asked FPC replacement policy. If it failed they replaced it, if you brought a failed one in they replaced it & handed you a new one.  I'm not sure if there was an official service advisory on this, or a campaign, or what.  

 

If you received an actual "recall letter" on your hexhead 1200 FPC I would be interested in the recall number. 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

50 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

I'm not sure BMW had an actual recall on the 1200 FPC, I never received a recall notice on either of my hexhead 1200 bikes (on both I was the original owner).

 

Hm.  I may be misremembering the sequence of events (almost 14 years ago now...).  I'll check when I get home this afternoon, but I think you may be right.  I bought a spare FPC when BMW replaced my original under warranty - and that was when I found out there was a redesign, and my spare would likely never be needed.  

 

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

BMW did have (at least my dealer did) a no questions asked FPC replacement policy. If it failed they replaced it, if you brought a failed one in they replaced it & handed you a new one.  I'm not sure if there was an official service advisory on this, or a campaign, or what.  

 

@KDeline, it may be worth asking your dealer about this, i.e. not a free recall replacement but a free "sorry we made a crappy first-gen FPC" replacement.  

[KDeline]

After about 400+ miles I have not been able to replicate this problem. Thinking back this motorcycle did stall on me when I hit a set of very hard railroad tracks and the bike completely died. Almost called a tow truck after messing around 20 or 30 minutes and then got it to start and made it back to the FART event that I was at. Did not do it again until the morning I was going to leave and the engine quit, restart it after a minute or two, and then on my way. Never did figure out that one either, and don’t know if this is the same issue. So it ran another 20+ thousand miles with no issues. Now this. I will call the dealer today and see what they say. Mitch, I may take you up on your offer. I’ll PM you when I figure it out and thank you for the offer. 

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, KDeline said:

After about 400+ miles I have not been able to replicate this problem. Thinking back this motorcycle did stall on me when I hit a set of very hard railroad tracks and the bike completely died. Almost called a tow truck after messing around 20 or 30 minutes and then got it to start and made it back to the FART event that I was at. Did not do it again until the morning I was going to leave and the engine quit, restart it after a minute or two, and then on my way. Never did figure out that one either, and don’t know if this is the same issue. So it ran another 20+ thousand miles with no issues. Now this. I will call the dealer today and see what they say. Mitch, I may take you up on your offer. I’ll PM you when I figure it out and thank you for the offer. 

Morning   KDeline

 

Let us know on any dealer help, BMW typically doesn't do ANYTHING after 10 years, with the fuel strip being the outlier at, I believe, 12 years. 

 

Probably most of the dealer staff doesn't even go back that far to know what was done in the 2005-2009 model years.

 

If no smoking gun found then don't discount some water in your fuel. Water likes to hide in the bottom of the fuel tank right hand wing, then if leaned just right, or stopped hard, or ???? it sneaks around into the L/H side & gives you a stall or misfire. Unless a lot of water, small amounts of water can get injected at vehicle speed (higher RPM) & you won't even notice it as it turns to steam in the combustion process. A big gulp of water & it can stall. After it sits for a while (or you fool with it) the water settles out to the tank bottom again so they can restart OK after a while.  

 

If you can get some help put a folded blanked or an old jacket on the ground then lean your motorcycle all the way over on the L/H valve cover. Then straighten it up, start the engine, & see if it stalls or runs poorly.