Networking Issue Question

[Sonor]

Hi All,

Been a while since I last reported in. Just one of the busiest summer/fall I have ever had.

 

The question I have relates to our new Fiber connection to the house. I am very familiar with ethernet etc, but fiber not so much. We have just received fiber and dumped Spectrum as they were stealing from us for low speeds and bad service. Now that we have fiber (500 up and down) every so often our screen (be that the TV streaming or while in a meeting on Zoom) will just freeze. It isn't often but unfortunately, it happened during a Zoom meeting which is not good. So thoughts on why it would do this? Granted the neighborhood has just had a complete install of fiber and I mean a radius of two flat miles. So it could be growing pains but we can't have this freezing happen regularly or it's back to Spectrum which would really suck. I do know that there is a bad loop upstream in the conduit which they will be coming out to repair. But would a slightly damaged fiber cable produce this freezing?

[Rougarou]

I dunno, router issue, router setting?  @chrisolsoncan prolly answer better than most.

 

I've got spectrum at 300mg service and can stream four TVs (two at 4k), two of which are piped through Ubquiti wireless connection to my daughters house and haven't a freezing problem or connection problem.  At any given time, we have four TVs running, four-six laptops (always on always connected), eight camera 4k system and I think three or four of those gaming thinghys (playstation xbox stuff).  No one complains about any speed hiccups.  We also have a myriad of other connected devices, along with a Ubiquiti link to my barn with camera on the stoopid chickens.

 

 

[Hosstage]

Yes, it could cause some issues. The signal in fiber bounces the light back and forth between the "sides" of the glass. If there is the smallest knick, it will disrupt the flow.

Also, make sure the wire from the fiber interface to your router is as clean and damage free as possible, a good high quality cat6 with no splices, no kinks. Also, a cat6 cable from your router to your PC or laptop works better than wifi.

[TSConver]

What is your jitter?  Jitter will cause screen freeze ups.

[scout6]

In our area, the issue is growing pains.  The fiber company that first came to our little town was doing really well, with good customer service.  It was purchased by a larger group from out of town, and is regularly off line (weekly for parts of our area).  

[Etienne Lau]

I have FiOS fiber at home never an issue. I also manage internet for 600isn location in the US. 

 

Your issues without proof is likely router issues. But you also did not specify if your using WiFi or Ethernet for your computer. Iny house all computers Ethernet for reliability. The only devices on Wi-Fi are handheld and Iot devices.

 

Same procedure at my 600 location. No wifi allowed too many unknown and uncontrollable issues crop up.

 

We also avoid Spectrum, Comcast and Cox, etc... cable Internet. It's unreliable and old tech that should have gone away with ADSL. We constantly have 5-10 sites out of 600/day that lose internet for any duration from 15 minutes to weeks at a time. Convincing the respective cable Internet provider it's there problems is nearly impossible.

 

I currently have a site on Comcast. For the last 3 months their connection regularly starts getting greater than 10% packet loss for no reason. Comcast of course claims it's our inside wiring and Cisco router. So I had router replaced and new inside wiring installed. Still same problem Comcast claims not their problem and is saying someone is using CB radio!!!! 

 

 

[Sonor]

I am very familiar with the differences between wifi and ethernet so I appreciate the thoughts. The two times it has frozen were once to a Wifi TV streaming and once to my Wife's wired connection during a Zoom meeting. Just my unfamiliarity with Fiber vs. Ethernet is what prompted my question. Spectrum was giving me 300 down and 11 up which is completely unacceptable and my fear of the possible damage to the fiber in the tight loop in the conduit is seeming to be the most likely culprit. I will continue running ethernet to my TVs but I fear until the conduit is addressed (supposedly in the next couple of weeks) it isn't going to help. My next big fear is like Scout said, that this fiber company gets purchased and we are again stuck with Spectrum.

[Etienne Lau]

Who is the Fiber provider? There is a minimum curve radius requirement depending on the fiber in question to answer your concern about "tight loop in conduit". Given the fact that your issues happened to both WIFI and Ethernet, that just leaves your router and the actual fiber itself. Will the Fiber company get purchased? No clue since you have not told us who the current company is. And IMHO don't let that fear be the motivation to revert back to Spectrum. 

[Hosstage]

You can request the company to come out and confirm the connection and speed to your house. Once they can confirm that it is not an issue with their eqipment, other causes can be investigated.

 

[Rougarou]

52 minutes ago, Sonor said:

Spectrum was giving me 300 down and 11 up which is completely unacceptable

 

With all the streaming and kids playing their video games on my network, we seem to have zero issues.  How's 300dn and 11up unacceptable?

 

Here's my test as of right now

 

 

 

Just checking devices online.

 

Currently three on my network are gaming, three TVs streaming, two laptops running, seven phones, four additional laptops idle, in total, there's 32 things currently on my network and no issues with any of them.  The only things that are ethernet connected are the solar interface, an access point and the Ubiquiti home station, everything else is wireless.

 

When my wife has to teach from home, she zooms and hasn't a complaint.

 

I'm just wondering how the speed of 300/10 is not acceptable,.....you mining crypto or something, what's sucking the bandwidth?

 

 

 

[Hosstage]

Disconnect any other connections going to dead devices or unused jacks in the house.

[Etienne Lau]

37 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

 

With all the streaming and kids playing their video games on my network, we seem to have zero issues.  How's 300dn and 11up unacceptable?

 

Here's my test as of right now

 

 

 

Just checking devices online.

.......

I'm just wondering how the speed of 300/10 is not acceptable,.....you mining crypto or something, what's sucking the bandwidth?

 

 

 

Cable Internet rarely provides what it's rated for. It is very dependent on the load of the area you're located and varies with time of day. I've had sites where the node is overloaded and that results in latency and packet loss. Proving that to the ISP is extremely difficult. They're favourite response is "signal levels look good, reboot your modem and router." Signal strength does not account for the overloaded node.

 

They're also not obligated to provide you what you're paying for.

[Rougarou]

Just now, Etienne Lau said:

Cable Internet rarely provides what it's rated for. It is very dependent on the load of the area you're located and varies with time of day. I've had sites where the node is overloaded and that results in latency and packet loss. Proving that to the ISP is extremely difficult. They're favourite response is "signal levels look good, reboot your modem and router." Signal strength does not account for the overloaded node.

 

They're also not obligated to provide you what you're paying for.

 

Ya, I'm on cable and supposed to be getting 300, but I've never had an issue.  

 

I pipe internet to my daughters house via Ubiquiti, that's a three person household with teenage boy gaming.  My youngest daughter and boyfriend live with us currently and both game.  TV's streaming throughout all locations, but no issues with the bandwidth that I receive via Spectrum.  I can't think of any time where we've had service issues either our old house or this current one........save for storms that knock power out at one of the relay sites.

[Etienne Lau]

2 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

 

Ya, I'm on cable and supposed to be getting 300, but I've never had an issue.  

 

I pipe internet to my daughters house via Ubiquiti, that's a three person household with teenage boy gaming.  My youngest daughter and boyfriend live with us currently and both game.  TV's streaming throughout all locations, but no issues with the bandwidth that I receive via Spectrum.  I can't think of any time where we've had service issues either our old house or this current one........save for storms that knock power out at one of the relay sites.

Lucky you. My 600+ sites at work tell me a different story when 99% of my downed internet sites are cable Internet.

[lkraus]

The only thing I find unacceptable about our Spectrum 300down/12up service is the $80/mo price. (Which I'm expecting to go up next month, just as it has every year)   We really don't have an alternative except satellite, which would be much slower, with download limits we would exceed in a few days.

[Etienne Lau]

Personal experience with Frontier Fios my Fiber provider. One day my sprinkler guy was outside digging and repairing my old sprinkler heads. Next thing I know the internet stopped. He knocked on the door to apologize cutting the fiber. I then called Frontier Fios and they more or less in 24 hours had a guy on site to repair the fiber. No cost to me. During that 24 hour period, I rigged a USB router to connect to my Google Pixel Phone for 5G. Then ethernet connected the USB router my Firewall, and then the entire house was working on the 5G. This includes streaming videos, MS-Teams conference calls, my VOIP deskphone, etc.....This experience taught me if I had to choose between Cable Internet vs 5G internet, I'll choose 5G anytime over Cable Internet. The 5G at my house gives me 500Mbps/25Mbps and that's with my own rigged setup using the USB Router, not even using my Cellular providers router.

[Rougarou]

Spectrum does the same thing.  I've cut my cable on several occasions between both houses I've lived and within 24 hrs, they were out to lay new line, current house was same day. 

 

This house, when I cut it, it was the old thin cable, they laid new line that is much thicker.   Since we've had the pool installed several years ago and other work, we've had 811 out several times to mark the underground lines.  I took pictures of their markings and keep them posted on the fridge in my garage, so now, when I go to dig in a "suspected" area, I refresh the memory on location with the pictures.

 

I'm not pimping Spectrum, but they are the only service we can get in my location outside of satellite.  If fiber comes my way, it'll depend on the price, if the price isn't lower, I don't feel a need to switch as all of our components function properly with the speed/service we have.

[TSConver]

I have ATT Fber at 1 gig.  This is my main computer on Mesh WiFi.  If set up Wifi and Fiber can be very fast.

 

 

Different server but with Jitter.  Again JItter is key for things like zoom.  5ms and up can cause issues.

[Rinkydink]

Every splice in a fiber run creates loss and fiber companies make runs as long as possible with slack loops added to avoid extra splices when another utility cuts the fiber. I have AT&T fiber with the Internet 1000 plan. My speed test results. 
 

 

 

[Etienne Lau]

Frontier Fios Speed test results, I am paying for 500Mbps/500Mbps. So definitely getting what I am paying for....

 

[Sonor]

Eleven up is the issue. I am posting large files either for fun or work (80 meg to three gig) it will take me all night for some to upload. Especially when Spectrum decides it's time to throttle the connection because it doesn't like the bandwidth you are using. Completely unacceptable.

[Rougarou]

I've done large files, but not that large, so can't compare.

 

Heck, I dunno what my work network is on, but I know I've done large files there and it takes forever.......engineers get frustrated even more than I do over our network speeds at work.

[Etienne Lau]

59 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

I've done large files, but not that large, so can't compare.

 

Heck, I dunno what my work network is on, but I know I've done large files there and it takes forever.......engineers get frustrated even more than I do over our network speeds at work.

Most work places uses whatever is available and the cheapest. Generally speaking this means Cable Internet. Which is why the upload times are so bad.

[Rougarou]

By network, I mean vendor.  We're fiber to the demarq, then fiber to our servers, but copper to the machines or wireless APs.

[Etienne Lau]

Ah. I wonder if the LAN is even 1Gbps. Don't even bring up WiFi....it's notorious for unreliable bandwidth. At my work we refuse to troubleshoot any complaints about slow WiFi. We require all users to be Ethernet even though we do install WiFi. The wifi is there for handheld devices only or guest users with laptops.

 

[lkraus]

19 hours ago, Rinkydink said:

Every splice in a fiber run creates loss and fiber companies make runs as long as possible with slack loops added to avoid extra splices when another utility cuts the fiber. ...

The slack loops are present mostly so splices can be made in clean room conditions. The tiniest speck of dust or a cut surface that is not perfectly smooth will block or refract the light and make data transmission impossible.  The fiber splicers have a specialized truck or trailer that lets them bring the cable inside the trailer to make the splice in wind free, rain free, climate-controlled conditions. The splice and "extra" cable is then raised and attached to the aerial strand.

  

 

Splices and slack cable for splicing buried fiber cables are generally enclosed in a pedestal.   Cut fiber cables will often be replaced entirely rather than splicing just the damaged section, depending on how much additional signal loss is acceptable and working conditions.   It would be very unusual for damage to occur close enough to the slack for it to be helpful in the repair.

 

 

[Skywagon]

The only thing attached to cable in my house is TV, burglar alarm, and router. PC’s, tablets, music, etc all Wi-Fi. I never notice jitter nor any speed issues. This speed test was taken 5 minutes ago from my detached garage on my pc. 

I much prefer Wi-Fi vs coax or Ethernet for home use. 

 

[chrisolson]

just old school cox cable

 

[Rinkydink]

37 minutes ago, lkraus said:

The slack loops are present mostly so splices can be made in clean room conditions. The tiniest speck of dust or a cut surface that is not perfectly smooth will block or refract the light and make data transmission impossible.  The fiber splicers have a specialized truck or trailer that lets them bring the cable inside the trailer to make the splice in wind free, rain free, climate-controlled conditions. The splice and "extra" cable is then raised and attached to the aerial strand.

  

 

Splices and slack cable for splicing buried fiber cables are generally enclosed in a pedestal.   Cut fiber cables will often be replaced entirely rather than splicing just the damaged section, depending on how much additional signal loss is acceptable and working conditions.   It would be very unusual for damage to occur close enough to the slack for it to be helpful in the repair.

 

 

I can only speak for the Bell System but our underground (manhole) duct runs had a lot of slack in each manhole to not add another splice due to a cut. Yes they do splice it in a pristine environment. I have fiber to my modem in my house. The buried drop was cut and they replaced the complete wire. No splice. Each splice adds db loss. 

[lkraus]

Things may have changed in the past 10 years since I retired.  The manholes I worked in (on copper, for Ohio Bell, Ameritech, SBC, AT&T)) had only enough fiber slack to get out of the hole and into the splicing truck/trailer.  Sometimes that seemed like a lot, in a cramped manhole.  Keeping enough slack in the hole to deal with a possible cable cut would more than double the necessary cable needed to reach the next manhole (the first time it was cut).  They never spliced at the site of the damage, they'd repair the conduit or use a spare conduit and then pull new fiber through the entire section, keeping any splices in the manholes.  Direct buried cable cannot be pulled to get the slack where it would be needed, even if they have now developed fiber splicing techniques that work in the usual mud pit.

[Rougarou]

Oh heres that fancy 5g, not so impressive