2004 R1150rt - Brake Service Failure - dash looks like a christmas tree.

[Redfoxx]

BMW r1150rt, 

I just installed new brake pads front and rear, all new soft lines, flushed brakes, clutch and replaced tires. (just bought it and it hadnt be done for 10 years is best guess)

 

Happy holidays my dash now looks like a christmas tree.

 

Turn key on and brake failure light flashes rapidly about 6 time then switches to slow flash. 

Brake warning light comes on like normal cycles off and then after about 5 seconds it comes back on slow flash. 

Then Failure light and warning light alternate slowly.

 

Bike has wizzy brakes which seem to be operating, they wizz like normal and test ride stop the bike like normal.

 

Fluid level on handle bars and rear  brake reservoir good. I did not remove tank to recheck other reservoirs yet. 

 

I bleed the handle bar to servo following the manual, bleeders 1231 and 1231, then did rear circuit the same with its 3 bleeders.

This did the funnel bleed, front and then rear. 

 

Where o where did I go wrong.

 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Redfoxx said:

BMW r1150rt, 

I just installed new brake pads front and rear, all new soft lines, flushed brakes, clutch and replaced tires. (just bought it and it hadnt be done for 10 years is best guess)

 

Happy holidays my dash now looks like a christmas tree.

 

Turn key on and brake failure light flashes rapidly about 6 time then switches to slow flash. 

Brake warning light comes on like normal cycles off and then after about 5 seconds it comes back on slow flash. 

Then Failure light and warning light alternate slowly.

 

Bike has wizzy brakes which seem to be operating, they wizz like normal and test ride stop the bike like normal.

 

Fluid level on handle bars and rear  brake reservoir good. I did not remove tank to recheck other reservoirs yet. 

 

I bleed the handle bar to servo following the manual, bleeders 1231 and 1231, then did rear circuit the same with its 3 bleeders.

This did the funnel bleed, front and then rear. 

 

Where o where did I go wrong.

 

Evening Redfoxx

 

Among other things the light flashing is telling you that your have residual braking in one or both brake circuits.

 

Do you have a firm brake pedal & firm hand lever? If not rebleed. 

 

You probably do need to recheck the internal (under tank) fluid reservoirs for fluid level. 

 

On new lines it is ever so easy to have remaining air still trapped in the brake master cylinder so verify that is air free. 

 

Otherwise, did you accidently get brake fluid into the ABS controller wire harness connector while bleeding the ABS module? If fluid gets into the module through the connector that can drive the module electronics crazy. 

 

Another thing to try is, once the general light goes out & the brake failure light goes to a slow flash then try riding the motorcycle a short ways to see if it will do the ABS self test & correct itself.  

[Redfoxx]

48 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Evening Redfoxx

 

Among other things the light flashing is telling you that your have residual braking in one or both brake circuits.

 

Do you have a firm brake pedal & firm hand lever? If not rebleed. 

 

You probably do need to recheck the internal (under tank) fluid reservoirs for fluid level. 

 

On new lines it is ever so easy to have remaining air still trapped in the brake master cylinder so verify that is air free. 

 

Otherwise, did you accidently get brake fluid into the ABS controller wire harness connector while bleeding the ABS module? If fluid gets into the module through the connector that can drive the module electronics crazy. 

 

Another thing to try is, once the general light goes out & the brake failure light goes to a slow flash then try riding the motorcycle a short ways to see if it will do the ABS self test & correct itself.  

I have firm foot and hand levers,  I have done bike brakes just not BMW ABS wizzy

 

Will recheck brake reservoirs under tank. Serves me right poured the 5 gallons back in. thank goodness for drain hose i made.

 

I don't believe I have air left I ran a lot of fluid through all lines, waste jug has about quart in it.

 

I did have some spillage on top of reservoirs, my funnel filler leaked at first when screwed in reservoir.

 The plug your talking about is the large multipin on right side top of Servo unit? Can I clean/flush with Electrakleen spray? or is there a different plug on unit I didn't see. 

 

I will test ride again maybe tomorrow, roads are clear temps will be like 15F. be a short ride.

 

Thanks for your thoughts

 

[Redfoxx]

I was looking at module pictures. I would be thinking there might more chance of fluid where the small plugs go into module.  

 

[Redfoxx]

DR

Cleaned all electrical  connectors and rebleed from servo to wheels.  Ran about  12 oz through each line. Maybe air or at least some dirt came out  in front left caliper. Seems slower to bleed this  leg also. 

 

I am down to one error maybe. 

 

ABS flashes fast for about 6 flashes and then goes to slow flash.  

 

I am new to Beemers, that is normal sequence now? Correct

 

 

RF

 

 

[dirtrider]

17 hours ago, Redfoxx said:

DR

Cleaned all electrical  connectors and rebleed from servo to wheels.  Ran about  12 oz through each line. Maybe air or at least some dirt came out  in front left caliper. Seems slower to bleed this  leg also. 

 

I am down to one error maybe. 

 

ABS flashes fast for about 6 flashes and then goes to slow flash.  

 

I am new to Beemers, that is normal sequence now? Correct

Morning Redfoxx

 

Sounds like it is OK,  you really need to do a ride-away so it can do the ride-off self checks. If brake light goes out at ride-away then all is good.  

 

Keep your foot & hand off of the brakes at key on. You don't need to do this in real world riding but should when testing the brake system.

 

System function: 

 

Release brake pedal/levers,

then switch on the ignition,

 

ABS warning light flashes at 4 Hz (fast)
General warning light is (ON)

(means self-diagnosis is in progress)
 
Then:
ABS warning light starts flashing at 1 Hz (slow)
and General warning light is (off)

means, self-diagnosis has successfully completed.

 

At ride-away ABS warning light should turn (off).

[Redfoxx]

Thanks, 

Planning road test today, high of 34F :-)

I bought several packages of zip ties, I didnt know when I bought this bike it was held together with 100's of zip ties.

I had to remove many around servo to unplug and clean everything.  I want to replace before putting tank on,  and cross fingers all goes well. 

 

 

I also have to agree on your used BMW quote. I am thinking I paid too much with so much maintenance I have done. 

 

Thanks again. 

 

RF

[RogerC60]

Don't put your zip ties on as tight as they did at the factory. Tight zip ties from the factory is a contributing factor to wires breaking in the harness. Just tight enough to keep the wires in place.

[Skywagon]

52 minutes ago, RogerC60 said:

Don't put your zip ties on as tight as they did at the factory. Tight zip ties from the factory is a contributing factor to wires breaking in the harness. Just tight enough to keep the wires in place.

That^^^^

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Redfoxx said:

I am thinking I paid too much with so much maintenance I have done. 

 

Afternoon Redfoxx

 

The maintenance on the BMW 1150 isn't a big deal once you learn to combine procedures by access, not miles or time (within reason).

 

If you remove the tupperware  for other service (like a throttle body sync or fuel filter replacement) then do the brake service at that time. 

[Redfoxx]

Test ride done:  

Good to go, new tires, brakes, brake lines, and clutch and brake and clutch fluid flushed.

It road smooth and now stopped on a dime. 

 

My christmas tree dash is gone.  I believe the part of issue was fluid in plug, and the left front hard line. I should have blown out when I did new lines. The guestimated 10 years is too long. 

 

Replace battery in spring, put tupperware back on, ready to ride. 

 

Thanks for your knowledge DR 

 

Happy Holidays

[Redfoxx]

14 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Redfoxx

 

The maintenance on the BMW 1150 isn't a big deal once you learn to combine procedures by access, not miles or time (within reason).

 

If you remove the tupperware  for other service (like a throttle body sync or fuel filter replacement) then do the brake service at that time. 

 

Thanks DR I have been been doing it that way pretty much, order parts in and  when under the covers I do as much as I can. 

 

About the only thing I got left I was going to do was change alternator belt, since it is original and now over 20 years old. 

 

After the belt I think I did everything pretty much, except a clutch and engine seals, and likely check transmission seals and u joints and splines at that time.  I am hoping at least one more year  on that I am sitting at 64K miles and dont seem to be leaking oil anywhere so far, I have only put a 1000 miles on in about 5 weeks I could ride. 

 

RF

 

 

[Redfoxx]

2 hours ago, RogerC60 said:

Don't put your zip ties on as tight as they did at the factory. Tight zip ties from the factory is a contributing factor to wires breaking in the harness. Just tight enough to keep the wires in place.

 

Thanks, all the ones i cut I swear the factory used a pliers to get as tight as they are. I have just been pulling by hand calling it good. I would swear I didnt put as many back on when I looked at pile of ones I cut off. 

 

[dirtrider]

58 minutes ago, Redfoxx said:

 

About the only thing I got left I was going to do was change alternator belt, since it is original and now over 20 years old. 

 

Afternoon Redfoxx

 

Just keep in mind that your 2004  BMW 1150 uses an elastomer (stretchy) belt so it adjusts differently than conventional ribbed belts. 

 

BMW has an expensive special tool to adjust the belt tension to specs but there are work-arounds. You basically adjust the elastomer belt by pulley spacing, not adjuster torque or belt feel. They adjust TIGHT, real tight. 

 

If you try to use the factory alternator adjuster it will more than likely strip as it wasn't designed for use in adjusting the elastomer belt.

[Redfoxx]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Redfoxx

 

Just keep in mind that your 2004  BMW 1150 uses an elastomer (stretchy) belt so it adjusts differently than conventional ribbed belts. 

 

BMW has an expensive special tool to adjust the belt tension to specs but there are work-arounds. You basically adjust the elastomer belt by pulley spacing, not adjuster torque or belt feel. They adjust TIGHT, real tight. 

 

If you try to use the factory alternator adjuster it will more than likely strip as it wasn't designed for use in adjusting the elastomer belt.

 

DR

Thanks, I have not done to much research on it. Sounds like fun since there is so much room up there it work.  I had seen on some parts sights they show 2 different belts. I do know my alternator is a bosh I photoed plate on it while in there for brake lines.  When did they switch to stretchy belts, bike was built 6/2003 per the plate.  I am hoping I dont have to open and see before ordering parts.

 

RF

[dirtrider]

15 hours ago, Redfoxx said:

 

DR

Thanks, I have not done to much research on it. Sounds like fun since there is so much room up there it work.  I had seen on some parts sights they show 2 different belts. I do know my alternator is a bosh I photoed plate on it while in there for brake lines.  When did they switch to stretchy belts, bike was built 6/2003 per the plate.  I am hoping I dont have to open and see before ordering parts.

 

RF

Morning RF

 

Good question, according to BMW the elastomer belt was officially phased in starting in July of 2003, BUT, that isn't cast in stone.

 

The 50 amp alternators got the elastomer belt and the 40 amp didn't (your 1150RT should have the 50 amp).

 

BMW also built some 2003 1150 bikes that came with the polymer  belt (non stretchy) but the replacement (at belt change time) was to be updated to the elastomer belt. 

 

None of the above means much, the BIG definer is IF your alternator has or doesn't have the free-wheeling belt pulley. If it has the free-wheeling pulley then it gets the elastomer belt, if it has a conventional belt pulley then it gets the polymer (non stretchy) belt. 

 

The free-wheeling pulley is basically a one way clutch that allows the engine (belt) to drive the alternator in the charging direction  but it allows the alternator rotor to spin free at dropped throttle so the spinning alternator rotor doesn't try to back drive the engine at dropped throttle.  

 

Some late 2003 build 1150 motorcycles (with 50 amp alternator) and with free-wheeling alternator pulley came from the factory with the polymer belt but required an elastomer belt at replacement. The front belt cover was supposedly marked with a paint mark, but from my past experience that mark is usually gone on most older 2003 1150RT motorcycles so that isn't a reliable way to tell what belt it gets. The free-wheeling pulley is the best & most reliable way to tell. 

 

[Redfoxx]

DR

I am guessing I will have to open front cover and take a peek. It sound like it should be a stretchy. I guess since tupperware is still off since i have to change battery this spring, I will have  see if I can peak at the pulley when the weather warms up more in a few months. 

 

Thank you so much for the pictures, I remember reading something somewhere about the different pulleys but did not explain the reason of difference  or show the difference.  It looks like it will be easy to see the difference, one I get under the cover. 

 

I am guessing this is all old hash for you since it is a 20 year old bike, but thank you.

 

RF

 

[dirtrider]

47 minutes ago, Redfoxx said:

DR

I am guessing I will have to open front cover and take a peek. It sound like it should be a stretchy. I guess since tupperware is still off since i have to change battery this spring, I will have  see if I can peak at the pulley when the weather warms up more in a few months. 

 

Thank you so much for the pictures, I remember reading something somewhere about the different pulleys but did not explain the reason of difference  or show the difference.  It looks like it will be easy to see the difference, one I get under the cover. 

 

I am guessing this is all old hash for you since it is a 20 year old bike, but thank you.

 

RF

 

Afternoon RF

 

That build date on the alternator is probably earlier than the motorcycle build date as the alternator is outsourced so it was probably built earlier than the motorcycle build date.   

 

Get your vehicle VIN from the tag on the front frame neck (or you title) then run it to see what the build date actually was. 

 

Or PM me the last 7 digits of your VIN & I will run it  (don't post it in public). 

 

Is your 1150 a single spark or a twin spark?

 

 

[Redfoxx]

DR:

 

Looks like it was born on 6-18-2003 as R22 1 Series ,  showing only option Heated Grips. 

 

Alternator or made the week of May 24, 2004 so not that far prior to bike manufacture.

 

It is a twin spark.

 

 

[dirtrider]

3 hours ago, Redfoxx said:

DR:

 

Looks like it was born on 6-18-2003 as R22 1 Series ,  showing only option Heated Grips. 

 

Alternator or made the week of May 24, 2004 so not that far prior to bike manufacture.

 

It is a twin spark.

 

 

Evening RF

 

You will probably have to look at the alternator on that one, you are right on the line that could go either way.  

 

Kind of a tossup on what you wish for, the free-wheeling pulley & elastomer belt has some advantages but installation & adjustment isn't one of them.

 

The poly belt has a definite advantage when it comes to installation & adjustment.