Pivot bearings this winter

[Dave P]

Hello all, Ive got a 96 1100RT, bought it 10 years ago with 95k. She now has 133k, I figured the pivot bearings were probably replaced at least once already maybe twice?I feel the loose rear wheel when I do the push pull. I tied the brake pedal down and I still feel the looseness. Ive heard that test indicates the roller pivot bearings. Seems like a bad place for roller bearings since the range of travel is so small- maybe 5 degrees?

 

Anyway, I did pull the boot back tonight, looked inside best I could and saw a tiny bit of oil in there (like 1 drip worth, maybe less). 
 

I can handle replacing those pivot bearings but no way am I gonna crack that final drive open on my own. Does a single drip warrant a costly rebuild? She does have 133 on the ticker.
 

As far as the pivot bearings, what are folks using for those? OEM bearings and races? I've heard about brass bushes (are those used instead of roller bearings?). Or is that some kinda Snake oil? Would I need to replace the pins also or just the bearings and races?
 

Looks like a decent winter project, should have tackled this months ago. Thanks, Dave

[Lowndes]

Hey, Dave,

 

That drip may be from the pinion shaft seal (where the drive shaft goes into the Final Drive).  It could be the rear seal on the trans but i doubt it.  If that's all it is, just a "tiny bit", congratulate yourself and go watch TV.  Mine had a "weep" when I changed to synthetic oil in the FD.  Someone here said to go back to dino oil and it would quit.  I did and it did.  That short shaft takes a lot of stress.  Be nice to it and don't drive like I drive.

 

I replaced the pivot bearings with "NUSHINGS", sold by a member here, I believe.  More info on the options and source in the link below.  I had some of the same thoughts you did about those little rollers.  You must be an engineer, too.  The static load on the contact patch on the top or bottom (inboard or outboard) rollers in psi is easy enough to figure (high) and the movement is tiny, excellent conditions for Brinelling bearing failure.  Who knows what the dynamic loads from bumps would be.

 

See the pics of a real mess and a pivot bearing replacement write-up, too, kinda.  It's not much to it after you get the bolt, washers, nuts, and sockets arranged.  Just tighten a nut and squeeze 'em out and the new ones in.  EZPZ.

 

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/103423-final-drive-leak-at-start/?do=findComment&comment=1112501

 

More REMOVAL pics here:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/QiHPDcXgZdwXzPmg9

 

More INSTALL pics here:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/qSWLK17tTFd1CLwt6

 

[Dave P]

Lown- Thank for the reply. Industrial Designer, similar to engineer but no engineering degree. Kinda a blend between art (styling), human factors and engineering. Also a good dose of Graphic Design to boot.
 

Nushings huh? I didn't see a link to buy them but Ill do a bit of searching. I guess it's a bush not a bearing. That makes a lot more sense than rollers. D

 

 

[Redfoxx]

https://nushings.com/#/

[King Herald]

I had a small 2" puddle of oil drip out of my rubber boot when I did my rear pivot bearings. Both gearbox and bevel box oil levels were full though and it has been mentioned that a small amount can seep past the seals over time, especially if synthetic gear oil is used. 

 

I used bushings to replace my bearings, bought from a U.K. supplier, Motorworks. 

 

The hardest part I had was getting the UJs into place when reassembling the whole thing. I ended up wrapping masking tape around the front one, to stop it flopping around while I pushed it in, and using a folded up rag under the rear one to keep it at the right height as the bevel box was installed. The rag can be pulled out of the gap afterwards. 

[Joe Coastie]

I replaced the pivot bearings in my 98 1100rt  few years back.

I installed the grease able Emerald Isle units from Ted Porters shop.

They install the same way as the stock units.

Just use moly grease in them.

I grease mine normally in the spring when it gets woken up for spring.

Haven't had a bit of problem.

But it's your choice with what you go with.

 

 

[dirtrider]

13 hours ago, Dave P said:

Hello all, Ive got a 96 1100RT, bought it 10 years ago with 95k. She now has 133k, I figured the pivot bearings were probably replaced at least once already maybe twice?I feel the loose rear wheel when I do the push pull. I tied the brake pedal down and I still feel the looseness. Ive heard that test indicates the roller pivot bearings. Seems like a bad place for roller bearings since the range of travel is so small- maybe 5 degrees?

 

Anyway, I did pull the boot back tonight, looked inside best I could and saw a tiny bit of oil in there (like 1 drip worth, maybe less). 
 

I can handle replacing those pivot bearings but no way am I gonna crack that final drive open on my own. Does a single drip warrant a costly rebuild? She does have 133 on the ticker.
 

As far as the pivot bearings, what are folks using for those? OEM bearings and races? I've heard about brass bushes (are those used instead of roller bearings?). Or is that some kinda Snake oil? Would I need to replace the pins also or just the bearings and races?
 

Looks like a decent winter project, should have tackled this months ago. Thanks, Dave

Morning   Dave P

 

Go back & re-check where the movement is coming from. Is it the same when rocking the rear wheel when holding at 6 & 12 o'clock as it is when holding the rear wheel at 3 & 9 o'clock?

 

If your rear brake caliper is still properly floating then holding the rear brake on doesn't always stop the crown bearing movement.

 

To properly check you need to see if there is movement between the brake rotor and the final drive housing (loose crown bearing), or if all the movement is the entire final drive moving in relation to swing arm? 

 

BTW, those pivot bearings are not roller bearings, they are needle bearings. Still probably not the best usage of needle bearings. But bushings bring on their own issues for some riders (like me).

 

The factory needle bearings would probably go the life of motorcycle if they were selectively externally greaseable (or had a reasonable clean/repack service interval). But the OEM problem with making small needle bearings greaseable is over-greasing, incorrect grease used, and/or improper cleaning of the grease insertion area therefore allowing dirt to be introduced during the re-greasing service.

 

 

 

 

[RPG]

19 hours ago, Dave P said:

Hello all, Ive got a 96 1100RT, bought it 10 years ago with 95k. She now has 133k, I figured the pivot bearings were probably replaced at least once already maybe twice?I feel the loose rear wheel when I do the push pull. I tied the brake pedal down and I still feel the looseness. Ive heard that test indicates the roller pivot bearings. Seems like a bad place for roller bearings since the range of travel is so small- maybe 5 degrees?

 

Anyway, I did pull the boot back tonight, looked inside best I could and saw a tiny bit of oil in there (like 1 drip worth, maybe less). 
 

I can handle replacing those pivot bearings but no way am I gonna crack that final drive open on my own. Does a single drip warrant a costly rebuild? She does have 133 on the ticker.
 

As far as the pivot bearings, what are folks using for those? OEM bearings and races? I've heard about brass bushes (are those used instead of roller bearings?). Or is that some kinda Snake oil? Would I need to replace the pins also or just the bearings and races?
 

Looks like a decent winter project, should have tackled this months ago. Thanks, Dave

I don't mean to add to the confusion, but alot of Oilhead riders have switched to these. (like me) and are very happy with them. https://www.beemershop.com/product/ei-paralever-bushing-kit-for-r1100s-r1150rgsgsartrs-k1200sltgt.html

[Dave P]

I'll recheck that rear wheel tomorrow. Might even start the dismantle too.

 

I'm gonna need to make (or borrow) one of those cut out 30mm sockets so I can hold that adjuster pin while I torque that big nut. D

 

 

[dirtrider]

On 12/15/2023 at 10:36 AM, Dave P said:

I'll recheck that rear wheel tomorrow. Might even start the dismantle too.

 

I'm gonna need to make (or borrow) one of those cut out 30mm sockets so I can hold that adjuster pin while I torque that big nut. D

 

 

Morning Dave 

 

You really don't need a special socket for a once-only torque. Just torque the pivot pin to 10nm, then mark the pin clocked position (like mark the top), then tighten the nut with a wrench to tight while holding the center pin from rotating. Then once "tight" just torque it to specs from there. 

 

The pivot pin usually stays put, but if it migrates on the final torque then just loosen & back the pin mark back that amount before tightening again, then it should final-torque to the correct location. 

 

On original pivot pin removal, be sure to heat the swing arm before attempting removal, if you do it cold then you risk tearing the soft treads out of the alloy swing arm.  

[Dave P]

DR- ok that sounds good I'll try a paint mark at 12:00 on the pin. Might have to buy a 30 mm wrench, I think Ive got a 30 socket but not a wrench! Dave