Key Fobs WTF?

[JamesW]

Honest to god I mean you sometimes got to ask yourself if this so called new tech is really good for much.  I mean why I MEAN WHY would anybody want a motorcycle that an extra key can cost you up to $400??  And some people like to think this kind of nonsense actually improves things?  I mean who in their right mind can see the practicality in nonsense like this?  Nuts, just nuts!

[AviP]

Agree. A lot of the new tech is pain without gain. Tech for the sake of improving a problem that should not exist anyway. The price keeps going up.to keep up with the pointless technology.

 

The 'Adaptive Ride Height' feature on the R1300GS comes to mind as useless technology that could have been avoided with proper design. Unfortunately, gimmicks sell.

 

One of the reasons I bought my Viper was that it was low tech. Besides the ECU, it did not have any computers. I was replacing a Supra Turbo that crashed when it decided to use Traction Control to solve a slide I had induced. I hated TC in that Supra but forgot to turn it off this one time and totaled the car. Back then, I drove like the Dukes of Hazard. 

 

That said, I do like the tech in Tesla vehicles. It seems intuitive and spot on. Will be getting a CyberTruck in 2024 Q1.

[JamesW]

Yeah, all electric cars and trucks are not a bad thing but I am not a fan at all of thousand pound lithium ion batteries.  I'm going to wait for the new battery technology that many companies are working very hard at developing now.  The aluminum ion battery has great promise and aluminum is a very plentiful element on the planet unlike lithium that is not at all environmentally friendly to either mine and process or to recycle.  The switch to clean energy is an absolute must do for the human race.   My neighbor has a Tesla model Y that he let me drive.  I was not really impressed and talk about whistles and bells, WOW!  I think the Ford Mustang electric beats it for style and function and costs less.  Also Ford has switched from lithium / cobalt batteries to lithium sulfate which are more efficient and it's a good move getting rid of cobalt.  Oh, did I mention I'm kind of a Ford guy anyway

 

[AviP]

Battery tech is constantly evolving. Tesla is already about 3 generations into changes. At any moment, an upstart can invent (probably already has) a new energy dense formula and kill established players like Tesla and BYD. If you want electric, wait only because of price, not tech.

 

I did try the Mach E, Ioniq 5 and Model 3/Y. Was not impressed with the Mach E at all. Ioniq 5 was really nice but I lost my place in the queue through indecision. Lucky for me, Tesla started dropping prices and I got a Model 3. There is no range anxiety with the Tesla supercharging network. I drove across the mid-Atlantic states in the same time + 15 minutes over a 5-hour drive when compared to ICE. 

 

My son drove the Model 3 cross country from CT to SF in 4-1/2 days for $325 at Superchargers or about $100 cheaper than a 25mpg ICE vehicle. My point here is the range anxiety and the travel time hardly changes. There was only one charging station where he had to wait 5 minutes for a stall to clear.

 

This is technology that I like, where it is useful and most importantly, intuitive.

 

BTW, Ford, GM and Stellantis are all switching from EVs to hybrids because no one is clamoring for their EVs. The oil companies are loving it. There will be a lot of shock among the auto manufacturers over the next 5 years. It's hard to say who will survive or not as the situation is very dynamic.

[Etienne Lau]

Should we then go back to horse and buggy?😉

[JamesW]

19 hours ago, AviP said:

Battery tech is constantly evolving. Tesla is already about 3 generations into changes. At any moment, an upstart can invent (probably already has) a new energy dense formula and kill established players like Tesla and BYD. If you want electric, wait only because of price, not tech.

 

I did try the Mach E, Ioniq 5 and Model 3/Y. Was not impressed with the Mach E at all. Ioniq 5 was really nice but I lost my place in the queue through indecision. Lucky for me, Tesla started dropping prices and I got a Model 3. There is no range anxiety with the Tesla supercharging network. I drove across the mid-Atlantic states in the same time + 15 minutes over a 5-hour drive when compared to ICE. 

 

My son drove the Model 3 cross country from CT to SF in 4-1/2 days for $325 at Superchargers or about $100 cheaper than a 25mpg ICE vehicle. My point here is the range anxiety and the travel time hardly changes. There was only one charging station where he had to wait 5 minutes for a stall to clear.

 

This is technology that I like, where it is useful and most importantly, intuitive.

 

BTW, Ford, GM and Stellantis are all switching from EVs to hybrids because no one is clamoring for their EVs. The oil companies are loving it. There will be a lot of shock among the auto manufacturers over the next 5 years. It's hard to say who will survive or not as the situation is very dynamic.

 

Tesla along with other EV manufacturers have seen sales flatten recently and have been lowering prices to entice buyers.  Tesla has lowered its prices 3 times in recent months to entice buyers.  This was discussed on the PBS News Hour last week.   I'm all for all electric just not now and the main reason is I don't think lithium ion is the answer at least it isn't for me.  Also, it seems that many all electric owners are finding that many charging stations have issues and simply don't work.  Take a look at Toyota they have chosen to stick with hybrids because of the limited market when it comes to EV technology.  All electric just isn't where the market is right now simple as that.   

 

Also, I'm not a fan of Elan Musk and I wouldn't buy one of his vehicles for this reason alone.  I'd walk first, literally!

 

 

 

 

[AviP]

20 hours ago, JamesW said:

 

Take a look at Toyota they have chosen to stick with hybrids because of the limited market when it comes to EV technology.  All electric just isn't where the market is right now simple as that.  

Disagree. Toyota (and Honda) placed their bets on hydrogen but the logistics of building out a hydrogen filling station network is far more complex than that of a charging station network. They are going hybrid because they are behind the curve on full electric. Hybrids are their stopgap to stay competitive and lose the market totally. Toyota has publicly acknowledged the genius of Tesla's engineering.

 

On battery tech, look at QuantumScape (QS). It popped on the stock market on Fri because of its energy dense battery.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

On 12/2/2023 at 11:14 AM, JamesW said:

Honest to god I mean you sometimes got to ask yourself if this so called new tech is really good for much.  I mean why I MEAN WHY would anybody want a motorcycle that an extra key can cost you up to $400??  And some people like to think this kind of nonsense actually improves things?  I mean who in their right mind can see the practicality in nonsense like this?  Nuts, just nuts!

 

FWIW, I like keyless ignition in my car.  Key stays in my pocket all the time,  no jumble of other keys dangling from an ignition lock while driving, and so on.  No digging for my keys to unlock the door: just grab the door handle, the car yells "who is it",  they key fob answers "it's me ya dumbass, unlock the door," and the door unlocks for me.  

 

My '09 R1200RT had a "chipped" key.  I know a number of other hexhead owners who got stranded by antenna ring errors: basically the bike suddenly refused to recognize the key, and wouldn't start the engine.  As I recall, if it was out of warranty, you had to spend several hundred bucks on a matched antenna ring and key to get the bike going again, and there was something about checking in with BMW in Germany to make sure you were the rightful owner, or getting the parts from there, or something - basically if your hexhead threw this error at you, then you were gonna be grounded for several days wherever you happened to be.  Chipped keys are a valid way to deter theft, but these antenna ring failures were ridiculous: chipped keys had already been in cars for years by this point, so going to market with a crap product was entire the fault of BMW's design and/or quality control.  

 

I never had a problem with they key on my R1200, but by the time I traded it in this past summer (60K miles), the soft leather key fob had worn away the black paint on the triple tree.  My '99 R1100RT was prone to the same problem, but I had protected the triple tree on that bike with a custom-cut vinyl paint protector; I just never got around to doing that for the 1200.  Oops.  

 

So now I've got the new R1250RT, and there will never be any key or fob dangling on the triple tree, so no paint protection required.  No more getting gloves on and then realizing my key is buried deep in my pocket, and I gotta take a glove off to get to it.  I like it.  

 

The bad news for me is that I seem to recall also receiving a backup key when I bought the bike - one that locks/unlocks the cases and storage compartments, and includes a chip that lets you start the bike, but doesn't have the remote lock/unlock feature.  I can't seem to find that one.  Hopefully it's somewhere around the house... 

[AviP]

39 minutes ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

So now I've got the new R1250RT, and there will never be any key or fob dangling on the triple tree, so no paint protection required.  No more getting gloves on and then realizing my key is buried deep in my pocket, and I gotta take a glove off to get to it.  I like it.  

Don't you still need it to unlock the handlebar lock?

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

16 minutes ago, AviP said:

Don't you still need it to unlock the handlebar lock?

 

To lock the bars, crank them all the way to the left and push/hold the tripletree button for a couple of seconds, then the lock engages; fob stays in pocket the whole time.  To unlock, same procedure in reverse.  

 

Or something like that.  It's in the manual; I tried it successfully once, haven't tried it since (bike lives in garage).  Will need to learn this so I can lock it when parked at hotels while touring.

 

The only thing you really need the key for is if you want to separate the sidecases from the bike.

[wbw6cos]

......or  pop the seat off.

[AviP]

I need to learn this too on my recently acquired GS. It's my first vehicle with WTF keys! 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

8 hours ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

To lock the bars, crank them all the way to the left and push/hold the tripletree button for a couple of seconds, then the lock engages; fob stays in pocket the whole time.  To unlock, same procedure in reverse.  

 

Or something like that.  It's in the manual;

 

Found it:

 

[Bernie]

9 hours ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

 

To lock the bars, crank them all the way to the left and push/hold the tripletree button for a couple of seconds, then the lock engages; fob stays in pocket the whole time.  To unlock, same procedure in reverse.  

 

Or something like that.  It's in the manual; I tried it successfully once, haven't tried it since (bike lives in garage).  Will need to learn this so I can lock it when parked at hotels while touring.

 

The only thing you really need the key for is if you want to separate the sidecases from the bike.

To lock the bike is easy. I did for 5+ years on my 2018 R12RT and it's the same on the 23 R1250RT.  Just turn the bars to the right and push and hold the button. Try it home in the garage. To set the alarm is optional and done with key fob. 

[AviP]

So does that mean that I can't move a bike with a dead battery? Or is there a manual override?

[Bernie]

8 minutes ago, AviP said:

So does that mean that I can't move a bike with a dead battery? Or is there a manual override?

I do think you need 12 volts to operate or to unlock the bike. But you can just use jumper cables from your Ram truck to power the controls on your bike.

But I haven't actually tried that, since I always unlock my bike, before I removed and replaced the battery.

Think of it like the electric windows on any of your other vehicles. They will not close without power. 

[Calvin (no socks)]

Consumer study groups have created  many unnecessary changes to autos and motorcycles over the years. I work for an auto dealer. Keys have been expensive for a long while. Software download time and labor to install is $180.  Plus software and hardware. Easy $500. Have had customers lose key inside vehicle.  Car will start for anyone. So, Labor to locate lost key $180...(rather than replacing it). I am also EV certified. Electric vehicles were created for use around urban areas and not for long distance driving.  I can fill my tank in 5 minutes and be on the way.  1000 miles dawn till dark in the summer. Try that in an EV. .The pollution generated for charging them would not be in the urban areas creating more smog, but located in the so called  fly-over rural country. A charging station near me in the country sees little use. As for  the steering lock... I have never used mine in last 9 years of BMW motorcycle ownership as I have seen many failures of these electric devices in multiple auto manufacturers...

[AviP]

3 hours ago, Calvin (no socks) said:

As for  the steering lock... I have never used mine in last 9 years of BMW motorcycle ownership as I have seen many failures of these electric devices in multiple auto manufacturers...

Interesting. I shall use it sparingly then.

[profbodryak]

3 hours ago, AviP said:

Interesting. I shall use it sparingly then.

Had a keyless ignition system on my last and now on my current RT collectively since October of 2019. It never failed once for me. Even if the battery is dead, there will always be enough charge to operate the lock which happened to me several times in years. It is a super convenient feature. The only thing that ever gets in the way sometimes is the wireless charger mounted onto the handlebars which may give a key error message (only when the phone is actually charging).

[JamesW]

Kind of an update to this topic but we watched a U-Tube video on key fobs and how thieves have been able to copy a key fob because key fobs are always transmitting data even if not actually in or very near the vehicle.  They copy the data and instantly take off with the car.   Sad day when auto makers and certain motorcycle manufacturers, BMW comes to mind, have to load their vehicles up with mostly pointless whistles and bells just to make a sale.  Thanks but a healthy no thank you!

[Rougarou]

On 12/2/2023 at 11:14 AM, JamesW said:

Honest to god I mean you sometimes got to ask yourself if this so called new tech is really good for much.  I mean why I MEAN WHY would anybody want a motorcycle that an extra key can cost you up to $400??  And some people like to think this kind of nonsense actually improves things?  I mean who in their right mind can see the practicality in nonsense like this?  Nuts, just nuts!

 

Not a fan.  If I could convert it back to a standard key, I would.

 

My vehicles key ring only carry the key for that vehicle.  I don't have house keys, go through the garage or the manual cipher lock door.

 

My key should not need a battery!!!!!  Cars, trucks, bikes, matters not.

[Hosstage]

4 hours ago, Rougarou said:

 

Not a fan.  If I could convert it back to a standard key, I would.

 

My vehicles key ring only carry the key for that vehicle.  I don't have house keys, go through the garage or the manual cipher lock door.

 

My key should not need a battery!!!!!  Cars, trucks, bikes, matters not.

Don't even need a key or fob, you can just use your phone!! (What could possibly go wrong?)