HES replacement questions

[dmsantam]

I am replacing the HES on my 1995 1100RT. The existing one still worked, but the insulation up near the plug was very degraded, so thought i'd be proactive. Got the replacement unit from motobins, built the timing box thing, and it works fine. A couple of questions:

1. Do i need any blue loctite on the crank pulley bolt? 

2. Is the correct torque 50Nm for the crank pulley bolt? 

3. Do i need any blue loctite for the HES sensor allen bolts?

4. There is no torque listing that i can find for the small HES sensor allen bolts, so i assume just snug is sufficient?

 

Haynes shows no loctite for the above, but thought I'd double check. 

 

Interestingly, my HES was slightly out of time according to the timing box. 

[Jim Moore]

1. No.

2. Yes.

3. No.

4. No.

 

That being said, I don't see the harm in a little blue loctite in either of those applications.

 

[dirtrider]

8 hours ago, dmsantam said:

 

1. Do i need any blue loctite on the crank pulley bolt? 

2. Is the correct torque 50Nm for the crank pulley bolt? 

3. Do i need any blue loctite for the HES sensor allen bolts?

4. There is no torque listing that i can find for the small HES sensor allen bolts, so i assume just snug is sufficient?

 

Haynes shows no loctite for the above, but thought I'd double check. 

 

Interestingly, my HES was slightly out of time according to the timing box. 

Morning  dmsantam

 

Jim gave the torque specs above. 

 

The BMW service manual as well as a BMW service bulletin says to glue the timing cup to the lower belt pulley (personally, I use LockTite 380 BlackMax adhesive). You can install without doing that but it is ever so easy to have the cup slip & bend/distort the locating tit if you don't glue the cup to the pulley (make sure that you have clean mating surfaces either way). 

 

I have installed the pulley bolt with & without using LockTite, haven't had one come loose either way. If you use blue LockTite put a very small amount inside the clean crankshaft threaded hole on the threads (not on the bolt threads). If you put LockTite on the bolt threads then due to the blind hole it will hydraulic some of it back out between the timing cup & the crankshaft.

 

On the HES sensor allen cap screws__ There is no torque given in the BMW manual, so the basic torque value is-- (tight enough that they won't come loose, but not so tight that you break the screws off or strip them). 

 

The basic generic torque on a grade (8.8) 5 Nm cap screw is 7 Nm, but they are going into soft alloy so that is usually backed off a little when torquing into alloy.

 

I torque them by feel myself but I have tightened thousands of small SAE & metric  bolts/screws in my long life so have a good feel for how much is just right. 

 

I did have a similar situation on a small generator that I worked on about a month ago, it uses about the same length M-5 screws into soft alloy & they did furnish a bolt torque of  (M-5   torque 5.1 Nm to 6.3 Nm).

 

Your alternator belt adjuster torque for belt tension is 8 Nm (caution don't strip the adjuster as that is easy to do)  & the alternator to front cover torque is 20 Nm.    If you don't have a BMW alternator special adjuster nut then you can just use an acorn nut on the adjuster stud to torque it.  

 

 

 

 

[dmsantam]

Thanks Jim and Dirtrider. Great info. 

 

Quote

The BMW service manual as well as a BMW service bulletin says to glue the timing cup to the lower belt pulley (personally, I use LockTite 380 BlackMax adhesive). You can install without doing that but it is ever so easy to have the cup slip & bend/distort the locating tit if you don't glue the cup to the pulley (make sure that you have clean mating surfaces either way). 

 

Is the purpose of the adhesive to keep the timing cup in place while tightening down the pulley bolt? or is there more to it than that, and it will affect operation?

The timing cup seemed stuck in place already, but I will double check before installing. I have access to Loctite 480 rather than 380, i assume that will work?

 

cheers,

[dirtrider]

11 minutes ago, dmsantam said:

Thanks Jim and Dirtrider. Great info. 

 

 

Is the purpose of the adhesive to keep the timing cup in place while tightening down the pulley bolt? or is there more to it than that, and it will affect operation?

The timing cup seemed stuck in place already, but I will double check before installing. I have access to Loctite 480 rather than 380, i assume that will work?

 

cheers,

Evening dmsantam

 

The early boxers came with the cup not glued to the pulley & those are ever so easy to get the timing cup out of place while installing. If the timing cup is out of place it can very quickly ruin the HES at startup. 

 

480 will work just fine, I have used it a number of times if I have it handy. 380 will work as good & is typically cheaper. If you have 480 then use it as it is actually slightly stronger than 380. 

 

If your timing cup is glued on then someone has been there before, no need to re-glue if it is still glued on tightly.   

[dmsantam]

Thanks again dirtrider. Your assistance is much appreciated. cheers

[Jim Moore]

4 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Evening dmsantam

 

The early boxers came with the cup not glued to the pulley & those are ever so easy to get the timing cup out of place while installing. If the timing cup is out of place it can very quickly ruin the HES at startup. 

I've done that exact thing!

[dmsantam]

I checked mine, and the cup is already glued tight to the pulley, so i didn't touch it. 

 

After installing the alternator belt, I was putting on the "breather pipe" which has a 19mm banjo bolt at the top, and an allen head bolt at the bottom. Chris Harris mentions an oring at the bottom, but i don't see any oring on mine, nor on his video really. It's kind of like a very thin gasket/seal that is black. 

 

 

[King Herald]

On 11/24/2023 at 4:07 AM, dmsantam said:

I checked mine, and the cup is already glued tight to the pulley, so i didn't touch it. 

 

After installing the alternator belt, I was putting on the "breather pipe" which has a 19mm banjo bolt at the top, and an allen head bolt at the bottom. Chris Harris mentions an oring at the bottom, but i don't see any oring on mine, nor on his video really. It's kind of like a very thin gasket/seal that is black. 

 

I think it is an O ring, but the casing is counterbored so it sits almost flush with the surface. You could pop it out with an O ring pick, if needed. 

[dirtrider]

Quote

After installing the alternator belt, I was putting on the "breather pipe" which has a 19mm banjo bolt at the top, and an allen head bolt at the bottom. Chris Harris mentions an oring at the bottom, but i don't see any oring on mine, nor on his video really. It's kind of like a very thin gasket/seal that is black. 

Afternoon  dmsantam

 

 (see picture) There is an "O" ring required. But IF your oil pipe isn't leaking then it probably HAS the "O" ring in place as they usually leak like crazy if the "O" ring is missing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dmsantam]

ok, it's not leaking so I'll leave it be. cheers