GoreTex....

[Skywagon]

Enlightening.

 

 

[Mike]

Interesting. I don’t really know enough about the facts underlying the antitrust claim to comment with any degree of certainty, but one of the things that Gore-Tex has going for it is a reputation of quality and consistency, something that we, the buying public, seem to value. 

As far as practical experience goes, my use of their products over many years is that they tend to work pretty well, as long as you understand that there are limits to the magic. 

[Rougarou]

I tell you one thing, when we in the infantry got goretex, it was a miracle piece of kit.  No longer were we wearing the impermeable "gumby suit", but we had something that was lighter and yes, it was breathable to a degree........and ohmigosh the pockets,....I could fit a carton of Newports in the chest pocket and keep them dry.

 

If you patrolling in the bush, it's raining, and you are exerting yourself, yes, you will be drenched inside your goretex (BTW, goretex is noisy, don't patrol with that stuff on),....that's kinda how the human body works, it sweats.  The sweat can't escape the goretex, so it stays inside.

 

I'ma say it does work, but nothing is perfect.  I still have my issued jacket that somehow missed getting turned in.  I still use that jacket on rain days around the house.  That jacket still does not leak water through it and keeps me dry so long as I'm not physically exerting myself to the point of sweating. 

[Red]

I love the way goretex works on both my riding gear and foul weather gear.  Don't care that it doesn't do all things well all the time.  It beats the hell out of rubber.  That said, I'll be looking to see if products are made using the 'other' breathable water poofing products in the future.  I would like to use materials that are not the forever kind.  The mark up for goretex seems absurd.  Someone had otta tell Aerostich they can reduce product cost and still make $ by marketing and using other products.

[Skywagon]

Almost all my outdoor gear whether flying, fishing, or mc'ing is some form of Goretex.  I still look for products made with it.

[realshelby]

This is but another example of why I don't believe nor make a point to watch Fortnines productions ( and they are just that, meant to get views ). 

I have bought a lot of gear, clothing, boots, gloves over the years. Not just for bike riding. 

While all claim to be waterproof....

Gore Tex is the ONLY one that I can say is reliably waterproof. Now I have had gear that is Gore Tex lined and I still had some water intrusion. But I am pretty sure that was due to incorrect assembly/stitching, etc. Not the actual Gore Tex leaking. Even the infamous Stich can leak....but usually due to seams/zippers. 

 

What I find is that really good gear is well built and done so that the waterproof liner works like it should. No coincidence that really good gear is almost exclusively using Gore Tex!

[TSConver]

1 hour ago, realshelby said:

This is but another example of why I don't believe nor make a point to watch Fortnines productions ( and they are just that, meant to get views ). 

I have bought a lot of gear, clothing, boots, gloves over the years. Not just for bike riding. 

While all claim to be waterproof....

Gore Tex is the ONLY one that I can say is reliably waterproof. Now I have had gear that is Gore Tex lined and I still had some water intrusion. But I am pretty sure that was due to incorrect assembly/stitching, etc. Not the actual Gore Tex leaking. Even the infamous Stich can leak....but usually due to seams/zippers. 

 

What I find is that really good gear is well built and done so that the waterproof liner works like it should. No coincidence that really good gear is almost exclusively using Gore Tex!

 

He is not saying goretex leaks.  He said if it is wet then it does not breath.  This is true it is simple thermodynamics.  It can only do one.  Either let moisture escape and breath or prevent moisture from entering.  On a hot wet day you steam inside anything that is waterproof. It can only breath if moisture on the outside can evaporate off and transfer energy.  If it is soaked from rain this does not happen.

[Rougarou]

I will confirm that goretex DOES become permeable,.....but, but, but, you have to be in the rain/wet for an over extended amount of time.  And no, it is not just the body sweating drenching you from inside the gear.  This may appear to contradict my above statement saying that it doesn't leak, but, what I stated is true, for a typical jaunt in rainy weather, yep, works just fine, for days of rain, nope, it does become permeable/soak through.  You gotta look at the type of rain you will be dealing with and how wet you gonna get.  

 

If you look, these guys wear what appears to be impermeable slickers and not goretex,....you gotta ask yourself,...."why's that?", as these folks are in the "wet" like all the time.  

 

[taylor1]

Yep  you aint gettin wet in a pair of Grundens

[szurszewski]

A big reason folks wear Grundens and similar is because it requires much less careful handling (doesn't stain, easy to scrub clean, less likely to get snagged) and is much easier to repair (tape and goop!) than goretex or any breathable laminate. 

 

It's also a cheaper buy initially - even for the brand name stuff like Grundens. 

 

 

[RandyShields]

Interesting turnabout.  In his feature on Gore-Tex from several years ago (briefly referenced with his chart near the end of this video), he noted that it was waterproof AND windproof, but remained the gold standard of waterproof fabrics because it did both.  I wonder what happened in the interim -- maybe Gore-Tex prohibited manufacturers from sending him free stuff . . . .

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtCdQfbLw7o

[Bernie]

He also tried to destroy a AeroStitch suit, unsuccessfully.

[realshelby]

I understand that NOTHING is fooproof. But like I said earlier, Fortnine puts out videos that are misleading, contradictory to previous work of his, and there to get clicks. 

 

If you get wet, it leaks. No matter what the process is that makes you wet......

 

I do keep my Stich "washed" with the water repellent stuff, and I spray my boots and gloves with water repellent. That does help I think on hours after hours of riding in rain. The difference I have found is that Gore Tex is the ONLY brand of water repellent fabric that has ever allowed me to ride all day and not have wet feet. 

[strataj]

A long time ago Sidi used Sympatex in a boot I liked, it was called (something) Road.  I put many miles on them but after a couple of years they leaked making for wet feet.  Sidi boots fit me the best, they changed to Gore-Tex and named the boot On Road.  Never had a leak or wet feet again.  The last pair I got they changed over to my a made man outer-shell with Gore-Tex called All Road, no leaks!   My Darien has never leaked, Gore-Tex.  I've had great luck with Gore-Tex. 

[Twisties]

Waterproof breathable is still the best thing for riding.  Let's be clear, the failure to transfer moisture out in very wet conditions applies to all waterproof breathable materials regardless of brand, and everything else too.  Nothing evaporates when it's that wet (100% relative humidity).  But, these materials are still very comfortable most of the time, and they sure beat sitting in the mud changing into rain gear.  I'm not missing the angst of deciding to change or not, either.  Nor the times I didn't change until too late.  As well, I no longer need to carry the bulky rain layer.

 

As for his specific criticisms of the GoreTex brand, I agree with those above who have said GoreTex represents a mark of premium quality.  If GoreTex had to require garment manufacturers to use their equipment and procedures to maintain that quality, I have no problem with it.  I can choose to buy another brand or pay up for GoreTex.  

 

I got the Klim gear last year and it has GoreTex with a durable water resistant coating on the Cordura surface as well.  Klim claim that this will keep you more comfy in wet conditions.  I have yet to ride in anything that was significantly wet with this gear, so the jury is out.  But, as to his contention that a DWR alone is sufficient, I would disagree.  These coatings are water resistant, not waterproof, and also they wear off and must be reapplied from time to time.  As Klim puts it, the GoreTex will keep you dry, the DWR will keep you more comfortable for a while, until it wets.  

 

Nothing is perfect, but waterproof breathable is the best there is.  

 

I agree, also, with those that feel Fortnine has really damaged his credibility with this one. 

 

 

[Twisties]

Another interesting tidbit is that Teflon (PTFE)  itself was an accidental discovery.  Evidently at Dupont they had a gas cylinder with tetrafluoroethylene in it.  When they went to use it there was no pressure.  Initially, it was assumed that either a used tank had been mis-marked as full, or the gas had leaked out.  But when they went to move it, it was heavy and felt full.  They weighed it and found it weighed full.  Now they were curious enough that they had the cylinder cut open and found that the tetrafluoroethylene had polymerized.  

[Twisties]

To go a bit further into why Fortnine's disdain doesn't sit well with me, it's a long way from an accidental discovery to a marketable product.  Stretching Teflon in frustration might well have created a micropourous structure, but Gore still had to recognize this (probably this is the remarkable and most unlikely step), consider what uses it might have, settle on the idea of a semi-permeable waterproof membrane, and engineer if for fabrics, develop seam sealing and other construction techniques and machines, etc.  It would have taken considerable innovation and investment, at risk.  IDK the criteria for patent issuance,  but clearly the US Patent Office disagreed with Fortnine, and I can easily see why.