why does the steering want to dive?

[majordad]

I have had my 1150rt for about three weeks and I am noticing when I am making a turn to either the right or left from a dead stop the front wheel wants to dive downward. Is this an issue of balancing the bike or am I going too slow and the weight of the bike gravitates downward? I can't see how this is a problem with speed because I am accelerating when it occurs.

[leikam]

the front wheel wants to dive downward

 

Could you explain a little more about what you mean? Front wheels turn right or left (v.s. pointing straight ahead) and lean one way or the other (from the vertical). "Diving downward" seems to be a rather more dynamic motion.

[majordad]

say I am at a stop sign or better yet in a parking lot attempting to turn into a space from a stopped position, the bike wants to dive downwards in the direction of the turn. I never really had this problem with my 650GS so I assumed it was because of the weight of this RT and or its seating position higher than the 650gs (a fun bike to ride by the way). then I though it was a speed or balance issue. my other thoughts where because of the angle of the throttle on the handlebars, the fact I have residual right wrist problems that make twisting down on the throttle while making a sharp right hand turn difficult, or just the combination of the weight of the bike and the speed for which I am making these sharp turns. I fear dropping the bike so I don't lean too much (that's probably the cause of all of this concern resulting in tenative turning from a dead stop). I am scheduled to take a driving course next month and hope the diagnosis of my problem is brought out then with suggestions to correct a potential cause for a fall.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

It's really all of what you mentioned. The RT is larger, higher and heavier than your 650. It is also probably you.

 

You don't steer a motorcycle like a car, even when starting off from a stop. What is happening is the bike wants to lean into a turn. When you initiate a turn you actually steer just slightly in the opposite direction which causes the bike to lean into the turn, you then "catch" the bike by steering in the direction you wish to go except that you have to do it much sooner than you are. I'm only talking about very low speed stuff here. Part of this is also a balance thing as, since you mentioned starting from a stop, your feet are probably on the ground and your butt on the seat. That greatly raises the c.g. of the bike as compared to feet on the pegs and can make the situation worse.

 

The key here is for you to practice this stuff. Go back into the parking lot and work on slow speed turns, starting with a big radius and working down to smaller ones. Ditto with starting off from a stop. Try going straight first and then turning working up to tighter turns and a shorter period of going straight.

 

By all means, take an MSF beginning rider course. They cover the very thing you are having problems with and they cover it quite well.

[David]

It could have a fair amount to do with the profile of your tires, either new or as they have worn.

 

Some tires when new have a more aggressive profile (Avon ST45/46, e.g.) that promotes a quick "drop in." Other tires when worn will square off, particular in the back, and when you transition beyond that ridge, they fall.

[majordad]

I think a little of it relates to the weight and larger turning radius of the bikes' design while most of it is be needing more time to master the bike. My 650GS was much lighter and I could zip it in and out without a hint of problems. This one will take a little while longer. My confidence grows by the day anyway and by the time I take the course (July 14-16) I should be better.

[Mark K]

It's you...and it's the bike. I got the same feeling the first time I swung my leg over my buddy's RS. I was coming from a Honda street bike. Any slow speed turn and I felt like I had to fight it to keep the da&$ thing from tipping over!

 

Must be the wheelbase, rake? I don't really know, but my RT is the same way. Depends on what you were used to. Now I get back on that Honda and it feels like I can't get the thing to move into that slow speed turn.

 

Ed's right, though. Take a course. I learned a lot in the beginners course and just did the experienced rider course last weekend. What a blast!!

 

The short answer is: That's the way they handle. You'll come to love it.

[Ponderosa]

If it feels like it wants to oversteer you might check the tire pressure, these bikes are very sensitive to low tires.

[Chrish1234]

If your bike has a tendency to "fall in" when turning, you may want to lessen the preload on your rear shock absorber.

 

By reducing preload, you're reducing the ride height in the rear. I've found that if my RT is too high in the rear it tends to be less stable on turn-in at both high and low speeds. Back off a couple of turns at a time and see if it improves.

 

The RT can be a handful at low speeds, keep a light touch on the brakes when going slow. Jabbing the brake with a turned wheel has sent many a RT on it's side.

 

Good luck,

Chris

[DouglasR]

Ditto all of the above! I run the tires on my RT at 39 front and 41 rear, Metzler Z6's. Can't feel the squareness at all at speed, unless they're really bad. If they're "square" they feel real funny at low speeds, especially if they're underinflated and square. I just put a new set of Metzler Tourances on my 1150GS and can't believe how different the steering feels (the old tires were cupped and cut up, as well as squared off ).

 

Absolutely some of this feeling is geometry and weight. I think there are only two clubs in the RT world, those that have dropped their bike at low speed and those who haven't YET.

 

My wife is rather a n00b to the street riding world and she has had a tough time with slow speed handling. I bought her a copy of "Ride Like a Pro for the Ladies" and she's learned a lot of really good things from it. You might want to check it out here RLAP . BIG CAUTION: In the version we have all the bikes the folks are riding have "wet" clutches and he advocates continual slipping of the clutch. If you do that on your Beemer with it's dry clutch you run the risk of burning it up prematurely. You can practice the same techniques, just carefully let the clutch all the way out, then pull it back in rather than slipping it in what he calls the "friction zone". A friend of mine recently got back into scooters after a 20 year hiatus and said this video made all the difference for him. (He has an R1100RT and rides it like it's a little dirt bike now!)

 

Take care, hope some of this helps! Let us know when you join the Drop Club!

 

Doug

[majordad]

I hope to get a lowered seat soon (once I have the money) which I suspect will help some. thank you

[Dolph]

I noticed a major difference when I switched to Metzler Z6s from bridgestones, very heavy handling at low speeds. I'm now running Pilot roades and they are much more "neutral" both at low and high speeds.

[cjmkerns]

MajorDad,

 

Are you finding that you have to press seriously against the inside bar to keep the steering head from turning into the low speed turn? I ask this because I have a '98 RT on which I Tagged the rear bumper of a Dodge Neon that turned in front of me. The nose of the 'A' arm tucked under a little so the 'A' Arm, lower ball joint and fork bridge were replaced. Tubes were straight as an arrow and sliders looked perfect. But, the darn thing wanted to turn it's head hard into slow speed turns, both directions. A call to Chicago BMW parts man and he confirmed my suspicion that a 'tweak' in the sliders is very hard to detect and they usually have to be replaced. He also said that diving into slow turns was the symtom it produced.

 

I ordered sliders and seals and now have them installed. I could see the 'tweak' in the sliders only when looking down them side by side. Test ride and report tonight after work.

 

 

Regards,

 

Carl

[cjmkerns]

OK. Test ride complete. On first ride it seemed that only about half the "Dive in" was gone. Then I remembered I haven't checked tire pressure for a looooooong time (bike was apart). Checked pressures and was 13 pounds low on both ends. Put 'em at 39/41 and now all is well. Precise, smooth and controlled.

 

Regards,

 

Carl

 

PS Didn't intend a Hi Jack. It's just that my bike seemed to be doing what you discribed and I noticed you bought yours used.

[peterh]

I noticed a major difference when I switched to Metzler Z6s from bridgestones, very heavy handling at low speeds.

 

I had the same experience when I switched to Metzler Z6s on my 1150RT. I went to a local parking lot to scrub the tires, and there was a (new) distinct pressure on the inside handlebar during low speed turns. Bike felt like it wanted to 'dive into the turns' (my thought at the time). With a couple of thousand miles on the tires, the sensation is diminishing. I never had the sensation a higher speeds, however. I'll go check my preset, then go for a test ride. Thanks for the thread!

 

Peterh

[majordad]

I purchased a wunderlich seat which lowers the driver an inch or two. I rode this morning with it for the first time and making right or left handed turns from a death stop doesn't produce nearly the amount of jack-knifing as before. Some of that might me being more used to riding the motorcycle yet I can tell having a lower seating position helps as well. I just hope I can remain reasonably comfortable on long trips. I feel like I am cradled in the seat and may have to get a cushion if I'm going to get an iron butt.

[Haynes]

I am quite comfortable with the steering on my R1150RT. I can predict its movements and interpret the feedback from the steering. I find it quite good at all speeds and I believe that I have it mastered as well as Mr Average rider does.

However!!!....

I rode a new R1200GS for a day and became accustomed to steering and throttle control of the lighter and much more nimble bike. When I got off the GS at the end of the day and tried to ride my RT home, I could not co-ordinate the steering of the bike with any ease. I was misinterpreting the prompts that tell us what the bike is doing and how we should respond. Consequently, it took higher levels of concentration to ride the RT for the first 20-30 minutes after the GS. My brain had to re-learn the skills for controlling the RT. You may be having trouble interpreting the feedback in the way I was when I got back on my RT.

 

Your body and brain will learn the process and it may take constant practise and analysis of your own riding for some time. Your rider's course will be a great start.

 

I thought I could ride my RT well after having it for 5,000km.

At 10,000km, I realised that at 5,000km I had only just started to learn.

It was at 30,000-35,000km when I became satisfied with my control of the RT but I still learn something almost every day.

[majordad]

since putting on the lowered seat I feel much more confident with the motorcycle. Most of my issues revolved around coming to a stop or leaving from a stopped position and having to tip-toe doing them. Now my feet are squarely on the ground.

[Haynes]

I guess it all starts with confidence. Good luck with your future efforts and keep us informed of your progress.