R1100RS Oil Leaking from Behind Sidestand after Transport

[TwelveGuageSage]

Hello!

 

I picked up a 94 R1100RS that was dropped off by a transport company.  The dropped it in my driveway for me while I was at work, and when I got home it had a puddle under it.  It is coming from behind the side stand.  The sidestand and the bracket that it connects to have lateral play to and from the engine, which I doubt is normal.  I suspect the transport company ratcheted it down onto the sidestand.  Is the engine a gonner?  

 

I'm dealing with the transport company and shouldnt have any problems.  I have video of them dropping it off, nobody touching it, and a puddle forming under it.  My immediate concern is what if anything I can do to fix the bike itself.

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, TwelveGuageSage said:

Hello!

 

I picked up a 94 R1100RS that was dropped off by a transport company.  The dropped it in my driveway for me while I was at work, and when I got home it had a puddle under it.  It is coming from behind the side stand.  The sidestand and the bracket that it connects to have lateral play to and from the engine, which I doubt is normal.  I suspect the transport company ratcheted it down onto the sidestand.  Is the engine a gonner?  

 

I'm dealing with the transport company and shouldnt have any problems.  I have video of them dropping it off, nobody touching it, and a puddle forming under it.  My immediate concern is what if anything I can do to fix the bike itself.

Morning   TwelveGuageSage

 

Not nearly enough information in your post to tell you much, it could be a LOT things causing the oil leak. 

 

You need to clean it up then carefully inspect where the oil leak is coming from. 

 

That loose side stand bracket might or might not have something to do with the oil leak. 

 

The 94 R1100RS has that strange funnel-like oil separator-breather behind the engine, any chance that is where the oil is coming from?

 

Without knowing where or what the oil is coming from it is difficult to advise you.   

[TwelveGuageSage]

Okay, so it's been awhile, I hibernate in the winter, but I got moving on looking at it.  POs insurance covered the loss, but the PO paid to keep the carcass which I paid to keep. 

 

The oil leak was significant.  I would guess it would have lost 95% of its oil just sitting in my driveway within 12ish hours had I not drained it.  The sidestand attaches to a bracket which is attached to, as far as I can tell, the engine with a large allen bolt. 

 

I am trying to figure out the best way to get it apart, but it looks like to get that bracket off I would have to remove both the side and center stands.  I don't think I can lift it and then remove the stands, so I am guessing I will have to lean it onto a wall or strap it somehow to get them off.

 

Any suggestions on the leak or removing the stands would be appreciated.  The leak comes from directly behind the large allen bolt.  This bolt would be highly stressed if strapped down with the sidestand down, which is what we suspect happened.  The sidestand/bracket assembly has a lot of lateral play in it.

[TwelveGuageSage]

Note that the bolt in question is the one in the center of the zoomed in picture, not the one on the sidestand itself.

[Redfoxx]

13 minutes ago, TwelveGuageSage said:

Note that the bolt in question is the one in the center of the zoomed in picture, not the one on the sidestand itself.

I would hose it down with brake clean or carb cleaner or if area really high on engine get some spray degreaser and hose off.  Everything is covered with oil. If there is no oil in engine pour some back in and sit and watch to see where it exactly leaks out, a little more exciting than paint drying, but if yours leaks that bad it will be a short weight.   If you want to have some fun get some oil dye and uv light.  But you will have to do in dark area and be watching right away.

[dirtrider]

49 minutes ago, TwelveGuageSage said:

Okay, so it's been awhile, I hibernate in the winter, but I got moving on looking at it.  POs insurance covered the loss, but the PO paid to keep the carcass which I paid to keep. 

 

The oil leak was significant.  I would guess it would have lost 95% of its oil just sitting in my driveway within 12ish hours had I not drained it.  The sidestand attaches to a bracket which is attached to, as far as I can tell, the engine with a large allen bolt. 

 

I am trying to figure out the best way to get it apart, but it looks like to get that bracket off I would have to remove both the side and center stands.  I don't think I can lift it and then remove the stands, so I am guessing I will have to lean it onto a wall or strap it somehow to get them off.

 

Any suggestions on the leak or removing the stands would be appreciated.  The leak comes from directly behind the large allen bolt.  This bolt would be highly stressed if strapped down with the sidestand down, which is what we suspect happened.  The sidestand/bracket assembly has a lot of lateral play in it.

Afternoon TwelveGuageSage

 

That oil leak looks like it is coming from farther up than that bolt pictured. 

 

The 1994 RS has that weird cyclone oil separator thingie on the rear of engine (later bikes didn't have that). If that motorcycle was tipped over the oil leak might be coming from that or from some of it's plumbing. 

 

You do need to get it cleaned up of all that oil mess before you even have a chance of locating it's source.  

 

Unless it has been removed by a previous owner (if so that alone could be the oil leak source) then this odd looking oil separator should be on the rear of that 1994 RS engine. (a REAL PAIN to work around)

 

Remove the starter plastic cover then look up in there to see if any hoses are off their fittings or leaking. 

 

[TwelveGuageSage]

19 minutes ago, Redfoxx said:

I would hose it down with brake clean or carb cleaner or if area really high on engine get some spray degreaser and hose off.

 

I should clarify.  It leaked while I was at work, but I could see a steady drip when I got home, as it was still leaking.  The best I could tell while crawling around is it was coming out from where the allen screw connects to the engine.  I cannot pinpoint it beyond that without taking that bracket off because it blocks everything.

[TwelveGuageSage]

5 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon TwelveGuageSage

 

That oil leak looks like it is coming from farther up than that bolt pictured. 

 

The 1994 RS has that weird cyclone oil separator thingie on the rear of engine (later bikes didn't have that). If that motorcycle was tipped over the oil leak might be coming from that or from some of it's plumbing. 

 

You do need to get it cleaned up of all that oil mess before you even have a chance of locating it's source.  

Thank you for the replies!  It could possibly have multiple leaks, but that oil on top was there before all of this.  I will clean it up, but I am almost certain it is coming out from either that fitting or from something very close to it.  If I didn't have to remove both stands to remove that bracket, I would have it off, but I guess I will need to find a way to stand it up first.

[dirtrider]

56 minutes ago, TwelveGuageSage said:

Thank you for the replies!  It could possibly have multiple leaks, but that oil on top was there before all of this.  I will clean it up, but I am almost certain it is coming out from either that fitting or from something very close to it.  If I didn't have to remove both stands to remove that bracket, I would have it off, but I guess I will need to find a way to stand it up first.

Afternoon TwelveGuageSage

 

You can remove the center stand & side strand but that probably won't expose much. 

 

The attached picture shows the most likely leak places (remove the starter plastic cover to see if you can see anything in there that way).

 

 

 

[TwelveGuageSage]

10 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Now that is an awesome graphic!  

 

Of those leak spots, which ones would rapidly leak oil without the engine running at all?  It was way too much to be from pooled oil sitting somewhere that ran down.  Any that would leak from damage caused by improper loading onto a trailer?  The leak definitely started just after being loaded.

 

I am going to clean it up later today and check a few things.

[dirtrider]

5 hours ago, TwelveGuageSage said:

Now that is an awesome graphic!  

 

Of those leak spots, which ones would rapidly leak oil without the engine running at all?  It was way too much to be from pooled oil sitting somewhere that ran down.  Any that would leak from damage caused by improper loading onto a trailer?  The leak definitely started just after being loaded.

 

I am going to clean it up later today and check a few things.

Morning  TwelveGuageSage

 

That depends on how much oil will drain. 

 

If ALL the oil ( 4 quarts or so) would drain out then it would be none of the above. That would have to be something like the drain plug leaking or a cracked engine case below bottom of oil level. 

 

If it leaks a lot but stops after a short while then possibly that oil drain-back hose is leaking, or a leaking sight glass (sight glass is forward of where you say the leak is coming from). But an oil leak can travel along crankcase seams or along engine case features.

 

If something is disconnected or has failed on the oil separator then it could leak a lot of oil for a short time but only what is/was in the oil separator itself.  

 

You might put the oil back in it, then run it for a while (or take a short ride) then see how much oil ACTUALLY leaks out when parked. 

 

See if the oil level in the sigh glass goes down (indicates a leak in the crankcase of some sort).

 

Or see if an amount of oil leaks but doesn't change the oil level very much. 

 

One of the problems is: the transmission covers the engine case rear oil sump as well as blocks access to the rear of engine.

 

You are probably going to have to clean it up, then remove starter cover, then run it & see if you can find what is leaking. 

 

The leak might even be coming from inside the rear of engine (between transmission & engine) requiring transmission removal to locate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TwelveGuageSage]

Ugh, yeah, that is what I was afraid of.  All the oil would leak out.  It wasn't the drain plug as that and the filter were the first things I checked before draining it.  Even after being drained, it slowly leaked a little puddle into my garage about 1 inch wide by 12 inches long growing over the course of 4-5 months as the residual oil worked its way down.  I didn't clean the little puddle until yesterday because I wanted to monitor it.  So I think the crack would have to be very low on the engine on the left side.

 

If the case cracked in or around where that bolt(technically a screw I suppose) connects, what options would there be for repair?

 

Thanks again for all the pointers!

[dirtrider]

7 minutes ago, TwelveGuageSage said:

Ugh, yeah, that is what I was afraid of.  All the oil would leak out.  It wasn't the drain plug as that and the filter were the first things I checked before draining it.  Even after being drained, it slowly leaked a little puddle into my garage about 1 inch wide by 12 inches long growing over the course of 4-5 months as the residual oil worked its way down.  I didn't clean the little puddle until yesterday because I wanted to monitor it.  So I think the crack would have to be very low on the engine on the left side.

 

If the case cracked in or around where that bolt(technically a screw I suppose) connects, what options would there be for repair?

 

Thanks again for all the pointers!

Morning  TwelveGuageSage

 

You can get (what looks like) a lot of oil out of the drain-back system or even that oil separator.

 

If you have a cracked engine case (pretty unlikely) then a used engine from E-Bay or a motorcycle breaker would probably be the cheapest way out. Your 1994 (1993/1994) RS has an outlier engine so finding engine cases for that, not to mention the high cost of just things like gaskets, etc would probably make a replacement engine cheaper, & even then if not a 93 or 94 engine it will take some re-plumbing, system study, & adaption to get a later engine to work (it will fit but the crankcase breathing is way different).

 

Get it cleaned up best you can, then re-fill with oil, then SEE EXACTLY WHERE THE LEAK IS COMING FROM. That way we won't have to keep guessing & can form an educated game plan.   

 

 

[dirtrider]

Morning TwelveGuageSage

 

I was in a boring meeting this morning so my mind wandered. (I know you don't care). But you might!

 

The wandering mind led me to vaguely remember an old engine case I ran across years ago. I don't think it was an early 1100RS (but the early 1100RS engines are outliers so I suppose it could have been) . 

 

In any case that engine case had another sump access on the rear (see attached picture).

 

It is a  r-e-a-l  long shot but you might just look to verify that your engine does or doesn't have this (see red circle in picture below)

 

If by a very slight chance it has that opening THAT could allow a lot of oil to drain as it is on the bottom of the engine case. Thing is this case is missing the conventional lower mounting bosses. But NOTHING on an early 1100RS would surprise me as those puppies are definitely different. 

 

Problem is, your leak looks like it is coming from way higher up on the engine. 

 

[Jim Moore]

I had to remove both stands from an R1100S once. I jacked it up, then lowered it onto two sturdy kitchen chairs under the heads. 

[The Fabricator]

Build a front wheel stand from 2 x 4's.  Runs a strap from the hand grips down 45 degrees out board to a 2 x 4 on the ground, part of the front wheel stand.  The bike will then be supported.  Tie the front brake lever back towards the grip to lock the front brake. For added safety, prop a jack stand under each head. 

[dirtrider]

Morning  TwelveGuageSage

 

Haven't heard from you in a few days.

 

Have you found the oils leak's origin?

 

If you end up having to remove the center stand/side stand (your 1994) is slightly different than the later 1995 up) .

 

If you have a garage, or even 2 trees, just center the motorcycle in the garage door or between the trees on it's side stand, then remove the seat, then just run a ratchet strap from the upper frame to each side garage door track or to something solid in the open garage area on each side.

 

Then with the motorcycle on the center side stand  tighten the strap on the side stand side until it is almost snug (just a little play) then tighten the other side strap until the motorcycle lifts off of it's side stand (it will stay there but if you are going to break tight bolts loose then put the transmission in 1st gear.

 

Next remove the center stand & side stand springs so you can put them back on easily (I think the early 1100RS has 2 crossed springs for both stands, a real pain to reassemble). 

 

What I usually do is slide the rubber spring overs down (if rubber in good condition) or just cut the rubber covers off if the rubber spring covers are degraded. Then with side stand down, stack some pennies or washers between  enough spring coils on each spring so the springs stay long enough to slide off the pins when the stand it put up.  (just reverse to reinstall the springs).

 

Do the same on the center stand but you will have to hold it down as far as you can before installing the pennies or washers), or just put the pennies in the springs before you put the center stand up. (those springs are strong so are difficult to reinstall as there are 2 to deal with). Without the pennies or washers you usually end up using vise grips to reinstall & that puts a failure point in the spring wire. With just one spring you could use a  brake spring tool but with 2 crossed springs even that is difficult.  

 

With the side stand springs ready to install it easy to JUST reinstall the side stand to remove the motorcycle from your garage door opening (use washers under the bolt heads to take the place of the center stand plate).

 

Or another way is remove the center stand springs per above, then remove the long center stand bolt & loosen the R/H side center stand bracket bolts with motorcycle on the side stand. Then fold an old coat or old blanket & lay it on the ground where the R/H valve cover will lay with motorcycle tipped on it's R/H side. The get some help & gently lay the motorcycle over on the R/H valve cover. Then remove the side stand springs (per above) & remove the L/H side stand bolts & brackets. Then reach under & remove the already loose R/H side center stand bracket & stand.

 

One of the upsides to laying on the R/H side is that it is easier to see the R/H side under the stand brackets & to see under the rear of engine case.  

 

On your 1100RS the engine is stressed member so is actually part of the frame, the front & rear sub frames & front control arm are bolted to the engine.  

So if you need a new engine you pretty well prop the engine on a crate or dunnage then start removing frames & suspension & transmission from the supported  engine.

 

If the engine case is cracked it can sometimes be welded but if the weld gets close to an engine case parting seam the welding heat will usually ruin the case sealing so it will then leak if the engine isn't removed, split then resealed. I have welded broken lower skid place bossed back on (in) with pretty good luck but those are not near the case split seam.