Replacement Seats

[Steveyacht]

My rear end is still sore after returning from my Blue Ridge three day tour.  Only about 1000 over the course of three days and I am MISERABLE, sore and pissed off.  I cannot believe how BMW can make such a nice bike (2023 R1250RT) and put a vinyl covered railroad tie on it for a seat, they should be ashamed. I WILL be ordering a new seat this winter, as I'm planning a trip to the Americade and touring all of New England while up in that area, from coastal South Carolina and this POS of a seat will not be part of that trip.

 

My question for this learned group is as follows,  what are your opinions, pros and cons, of the following seat makers: Laam, Russell Day Long and Sargent.  I am 69 years old, have been riding on the road for 53 years, am 5'6" with about a 27 inch inseam, with the low seat option I can only touch with the balls of my feet, or one foot at a time (not a big deal, been doing it forever).  While Price is always a factor, that will not be the driver of my decision, while quality and comfort are paramount.  

 

Thank you ALL in advance for your comments and help. This is my first BMW and I really appreciate what I have learned on this forum.  

 

Steve

 

[BamaJohn]

19 minutes ago, Steveyacht said:

My rear end is still sore after returning from my Blue Ridge three day tour.  Only about 1000 over the course of three days and I am MISERABLE, sore and pissed off.  I cannot believe how BMW can make such a nice bike (2023 R1250RT) and put a vinyl covered railroad tie on it for a seat, they should be ashamed. I WILL be ordering a new seat this winter, as I'm planning a trip to the Americade and touring all of New England while up in that area, from coastal South Carolina and this POS of a seat will not be part of that trip.

 

My question for this learned group is as follows,  what are your opinions, pros and cons, of the following seat makers: Laam, Russell Day Long and Sargent.  I am 69 years old, have been riding on the road for 53 years, am 5'6" with about a 27 inch inseam, with the low seat option I can only touch with the balls of my feet, or one foot at a time (not a big deal, been doing it forever).  While Price is always a factor, that will not be the driver of my decision, while quality and comfort are paramount.  

 

Thank you ALL in advance for your comments and help. This is my first BMW and I really appreciate what I have learned on this forum.  

 

Steve

 

 

I hear you Steve, and have resorted to 5 different Russell Day Long seats over the past 20 or so years on different bikes.  For me, they allow what you're looking for in comfort and quality.  But, the RDL will slightly increase the seat height, so that might be a deal-breaker for you...and we pay for the quality.

I'm sure you'll get personal experiences on the other brands shortly.  In the meantime, this might make you smile. I'm a senior rider too:

 

 

 

My gluteus maximus is now minimus.docx

[TX Mike]

I find the Sargent seat very comfortable on my R1200RT. It took a couple thousand miles to break-in.

[Red]

Most if not all of the aftermarket seats that are significant improvement over the BMW torture saddles will change (diminish) your ability to put your feet on the ground at a stop.  Not that they are all 'taller'.  Some are actually lower.  BUT, they are wider and therein lies the problem.  When your legs have to move out farther before heading down to the ground, it causes your upper leg to be higher (at the knee) than the stock saddle.  

Wider saddle means more square inches of support at the butt and upper leg thereby reducing the lbs/ sq inch on your arse.  Less force on your pelvis and spine results in a mo betta feel.  But then there is that pesky longer distance from your knee to the ground.

Incredible that a $25,000 motorcycle has a $100 seat.  It's a BMW thing.

[szurszewski]

I don’t have a particular seat suggestion for you, but if you’re surprised by how uncomfortable the stock seat is, well, this is clearly your first (post airhead) bmw… good luck!

[Steveyacht]

6 hours ago, szurszewski said:

I don’t have a particular seat suggestion for you, but if you’re surprised by how uncomfortable the stock seat is, well, this is clearly your first (post airhead) bmw… good luck!

Yup, my first BMW period. I think it's a great bike, except for the damned seat.  My biggest question is, why thee hell do they build a seat that everyone hates?

[Skywagon]

Just now, Steveyacht said:

My biggest question is, why thee hell do they build a seat that everyone hates?

 

And don't sell or make an upgrade..

[Steveyacht]

13 hours ago, Red said:

Most if not all of the aftermarket seats that are significant improvement over the BMW torture saddles will change (diminish) your ability to put your feet on the ground at a stop.  Not that they are all 'taller'.  Some are actually lower.  BUT, they are wider and therein lies the problem.  When your legs have to move out farther before heading down to the ground, it causes your upper leg to be higher (at the knee) than the stock saddle.  

Wider saddle means more square inches of support at the butt and upper leg thereby reducing the lbs/ sq inch on your arse.  Less force on your pelvis and spine results in a mo betta feel.  But then there is that pesky longer distance from your knee to the ground.

Incredible that a $25,000 motorcycle has a $100 seat.  It's a BMW thing.

$100??? This F'n seat ain't worth 10¢.

[Hosstage]

Harley seats are often crap too, but they sell 10 different options to fix that for you. And they make a couple extra bucks to boot.

HD is really good about looking out for their customer............

[Steveyacht]

14 hours ago, Hosstage said:

Harley seats are often crap too, but they sell 10 different options to fix that for you. And they make a couple extra bucks to boot.

HD is really good about looking out for their customer............

That may be, as I never owned a Harley.  However, I see a lot of HD riders with stock seats that they are happy with as opposed to RT1250RT.

[Hosstage]

They're only happy with the stock seats because they've not tried others. As we all know, most HDs only put on 15-20 miles at a time from bar to bar, so no experience with 100s of miles in a day. And HD riders can be some of the cheapest people known...

Don't even get me started on HD suspension. 

[9Mary7]

 

19 hours ago, Steveyacht said:

why thee hell do they build a seat that everyone hates?

I've never seen a custom seat on an RT-P........just sayin'

Never had an issue on any of my authority bikes, 10+ hour shifts and all......

[Steveyacht]

6 minutes ago, 9Mary7 said:

 

I've never seen a custom seat on an RT-P........just sayin'

Never had an issue on any of my authority bikes, 10+ hour shifts and all......

Maybe the use a different seat?

[Hosstage]

I didn't mind the seat on a '15 RT that I rode for 10 days thru the Alps, maybe I didn't know any better! Plus, I liked the heat in the Alps.

I also didn't mind the stock seat on my dresser HD other than it was a bit wide and tall for my stubby legs. Luckily HD makes a seat for that, and they are not really expensive compared to the aftermarket suppliers.

The other nice thing HD does is offer demo seats you can use for a day or two to see which one works best for you. Mine was under $350, which is not bad, especially when you are able to test it first and know it will work.

[Steveyacht]

18 minutes ago, Hosstage said:

They're only happy with the stock seats because they've not tried others. As we all know, most HDs only put on 15-20 miles at a time from bar to bar, so no experience with 100s of miles in a day. And HD riders can be some of the cheapest people known...

Don't even get me started on HD suspension. 

Those are the TT racers, tavern to tavern. Fortunately, my friends that ride HD's are all great folks and are real riders, not TT racers....... although I've met more that a few of those too.

[9Mary7]

3 minutes ago, Steveyacht said:

Maybe the use a different seat?

Same seats....Probably due to moving around on the seat more and getting on and off. Parade duty was fine though, even when riding for 2+ hours.

 

I will say my rear end was younger then......

[Hosstage]

5 minutes ago, Steveyacht said:

Those are the TT racers, tavern to tavern. Fortunately, my friends that ride HD's are all great folks and are real riders, not TT racers....... although I've met more that a few of those too.

I love those guys, they put 10 year old bikes on the market with about 20,000 miles on them, just broken in. HD people are shocked when I tell them that mine has 120,000 on it, wow, you must really like to ride.

Well, yes!

[Motorhead1977]

@Steveyacht, I've had good results with Sargent seats on a number of different bikes including my 1200RT and my 1250RS. I'm inseam challenged and haven't experienced any increase in height with the Sargent seats. It's ordinary for us to ride 250 to 350 miles in a day and the Sargent is comfortable, not Goldwing stock seat comfortable (based on actual Goldwing experience) but comfortable enough.

 

Maybe we'll catch up when you're up for Americade as we're only about 60 miles south of Lake George. LMK if you're going to make the event.

[Bluenoser]

I ride a 1250RT now,  recently sold my 1100RT.  I bought both a Air Hawk pad and a Wind Rider cover for the 1100.   The Air Hawk was a slight improvement, the Wind Rider was a better improvement but the Wind Rider is abrasive to the seat so I didn't want it on the new bike.  What I've done is cut the Wind Rider to fit over the Air Hawk and secured it with needle and thread. The end result is really quite good. It does add height but I've been able to put in a few 8-10 hrs days.

I've not riden a Harley or tried RDL or Sergeant so can't compare. The 1100 had a Corbin but I think it was less comfortable than the 1250 stock seat.

I think part of the solution is proper riding posture.

[Stiggy]

I bought the Sargent seat specifically because it was about 2" wider than stock, so that certainly might contribute to reaching the ground concerns. They make high and low models however.

As said above, I believe it took a couple of thousand miles to fully break in so I ran the AirHawk cushion during that time.

I've only sat on a Lamm (used bike at my dealership,_) and my impression was it's a poor imitation if the RDL, which from what I understand an RDL takes months to schedule.

The RDL looks similar to the Police saddle I ran on my Harley Road Glide, which is probably the best all day seat I've ever enjoyed, but it looks to be even wider and higher than the Sargent. It reminds me of a farm tractor bucket shape, offering maximum support all around.

(The Road Glide ran that seat for the last half of her 172,000 miles (Bar Hopper indeed!))

I can live with the Sargent however.

[Steveyacht]

10 hours ago, Motorhead1977 said:

@Steveyacht, I've had good results with Sargent seats on a number of different bikes including my 1200RT and my 1250RS. I'm inseam challenged and haven't experienced any increase in height with the Sargent seats. It's ordinary for us to ride 250 to 350 miles in a day and the Sargent is comfortable, not Goldwing stock seat comfortable (based on actual Goldwing experience) but comfortable enough.

 

Maybe we'll catch up when you're up for Americade as we're only about 60 miles south of Lake George. LMK if you're going to make the event.

 

[Steveyacht]

You must be close to the Albany area. I moved to South Carolina from a small town on the Mass state line, about 45 minutes southeast of Albany.  My wife and I went to the Americade 7 years in a row beginning in 1985 or 86, we really enjoyed.  

In order to do what I'm planning will involve a three or four 500 - 600 mile days, which with my previous bikes was no problem, even two 1,200 +.  So, to have a seat that wears my ass out after 1,000 miles in four days is unacceptable.

[Wayne Johnson]

I spent 2k on seats before settling on the rdl. The Sargent was pretty comfy also though. Btw order your Rdl now as it will be months before sending it in. The bottom line is you have to ride more to get those darn buttocks comfortable in the saddle!!!

[Steveyacht]

Well, Rightly Wrongly or neutral, I just placed an order for a Laam seat.  I did so after a very informative discussion with Seth, he was extremely helpful, professional and most courteous.  I made this decision for a few reasons, first, I really don't like the appearance of the RDL seats that I looked at on their web site, as opposed to the Laam seat.  The pricing of the RDL was also a factor, price makes a difference. Laam does't break the bank as badly once you take factory heat and matching the pillion to the front on a two piece seat.  I really thought hard on the Sargent, but they're company makes "off the shelf" seats, even with the low seat option, they are not a true custom made seat.  While a low seat may have been just fine, I hate to take that chance, and the price was less than $100 difference for a true custom seat, made for me and my dimensions are far from standard. 

 

So, there you have it, after much head scratching, the comments from those here and elsewhere, as well as comments from my Commander-in-Chief/Minister of Finance (aka Wife, even though she no longer accompanies me), talking to a friend who had a Laam made for his bike, and the conversations I had with all three companies, Laam is my choice.

 

I may hate it or Love it, I pray for the latter.

 

Thanks to all for your comments.

[Dave_in_TX]

On 10/10/2023 at 11:17 AM, Steveyacht said:

Well, Rightly Wrongly or neutral, I just placed an order for a Laam seat.  I did so after a very informative discussion with Seth, he was extremely helpful, professional and most courteous.  I made this decision for a few reasons, first, I really don't like the appearance of the RDL seats that I looked at on their web site, as opposed to the Laam seat.  The pricing of the RDL was also a factor, price makes a difference. Laam does't break the bank as badly once you take factory heat and matching the pillion to the front on a two piece seat.  I really thought hard on the Sargent, but they're company makes "off the shelf" seats, even with the low seat option, they are not a true custom made seat.  While a low seat may have been just fine, I hate to take that chance, and the price was less than $100 difference for a true custom seat, made for me and my dimensions are far from standard. 

 

So, there you have it, after much head scratching, the comments from those here and elsewhere, as well as comments from my Commander-in-Chief/Minister of Finance (aka Wife, even though she no longer accompanies me), talking to a friend who had a Laam made for his bike, and the conversations I had with all three companies, Laam is my choice.

 

I may hate it or Love it, I pray for the latter.

 

Thanks to all for your comments.

I have had seats from both Laam and Sargent and find the Laam to be more comfortable.  However,  although Sargent is an "off the shelf seat", they do offer a 30 satisfaction guarantee if you buy directly from them.

[Motorhead1977]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:23 AM, Steveyacht said:

You must be close to the Albany area. I moved to South Carolina from a small town on the Mass state line, about 45 minutes southeast of Albany.  My wife and I went to the Americade 7 years in a row beginning in 1985 or 86, we really enjoyed.  

In order to do what I'm planning will involve a three or four 500 - 600 mile days, which with my previous bikes was no problem, even two 1,200 +.  So, to have a seat that wears my ass out after 1,000 miles in four days is unacceptable.

Yes, directly in suburban Albany.  So my guess would be you moved from New Lebanon/Lebanon Springs area? I'm interested to see pictures of your Laam seat and how it is for you with your inseam challenged build.

[Steveyacht]

On 10/11/2023 at 9:05 PM, Motorhead1977 said:

Yes, directly in suburban Albany.  So my guess would be you moved from New Lebanon/Lebanon Springs area? I'm interested to see pictures of your Laam seat and how it is for you with your inseam challenged build.

Actually, it was the Copake/Hillsdale area, we used to be able to make it to the Crossgates Mall in 45 to 50 minutes, depending on traffic.   Beautiful area, but we left there in 1996 and haven't looked back.  

[Motorhead1977]

It's definitely a beautiful area with some great riding.

[Rob Nowell]

I'm curious about the new AirHawk seat.  (Not the cover, the SEAT.)

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

On 10/6/2023 at 2:49 AM, Red said:

Most if not all of the aftermarket seats that are significant improvement over the BMW torture saddles will change (diminish) your ability to put your feet on the ground at a stop.  Not that they are all 'taller'.  Some are actually lower.  BUT, they are wider and therein lies the problem.  When your legs have to move out farther before heading down to the ground, it causes your upper leg to be higher (at the knee) than the stock saddle.  

 

I can attest to this.  Had a Corbin on my 1100RT and my 1200RT, and will shortly be getting one for my 1250RT.  Height above the footpegs is about the same as stock, but the saddle is firm and wide and makes it difficult to get both feet flat on the ground during stops.  IMHO, this is a perfectly acceptable tradeoff, since the vast majority of my time in the saddle is spent with my feet on the pegs instead of the ground.

 

On 10/6/2023 at 3:53 PM, Skywagon said:

And don't sell or make an upgrade..

 

FWIW, they do offer an "Option 719" saddle:

 

 

It's nicer looking, but I don't know whether it's any more comfortable.

[Dave_in_TX]

On 10/25/2023 at 7:00 PM, Rob Nowell said:

I'm curious about the new AirHawk seat.  (Not the cover, the SEAT.)

I don't know about the AirHawl RT seat but I tried their GS seat and it was like sitting on a board. The OEM seat was much more comfortable. The AirHawk pad on the stock seat worked much better.