Bleed ABS Unit, Yes or No?

[Paddler]

I'm replacing my original brake lines with SS braided lines from Venhill on my 1998 R1100R.  Just wondering if it's necessary to bleed the ABS unit as shown in the youtube videos.  I didn't do it when I tried to install some Speigler lines which didn't fit, I had to reinstall the original lines.  I just bled them at the calipers and it seemed to work fine.  The other option is to activate the ABS unit using the OBD plug?  Or does it have that functionality?

[Jim Moore]

I don't do it if I'm just bleeding the brakes, but if I have the tank off to replace the lines I'll bleed at the ABS module too.

[Paddler]

3 minutes ago, Jim Moore said:

I don't do it if I'm just bleeding the brakes, but if I have the tank off to replace the lines I'll bleed at the ABS module too.

 

Thanks, Jim.  I moved the tank back to get to the banjo bolts up top but have not removed it and would prefer to not.  Can one flush the entire system without bleeding the ABS unit?

[Jim Moore]

Sorry, i don't know. Never done it like that.

[dirtrider]

39 minutes ago, Paddler said:

 

Thanks, Jim.  I moved the tank back to get to the banjo bolts up top but have not removed it and would prefer to not.  Can one flush the entire system without bleeding the ABS unit?

Afternoon  Paddler

 

If you flush the system without bleeding at the ABS pump you will get most of the air out of the system.

 

Most likely you will still have a little air trapped in the top of the ABS pump. It will probably be ridable like that but just a little spongy.

 

You might be able to ride it then make a few ABS  stops on a dirt or gravel road  then do another re-bleed.   

 

 

 

 

[Paddler]

15 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon  Paddler

 

If you flush the system without bleeding at the ABS pump you will get most of the air out of the system.

 

Most likely you will still have a little air trapped in the top of the ABS pump. It will probably be ridable like that but just a little spongy.

 

You might be able to ride it then make a few ABS  stops on a dirt or gravel road  then do another re-bleed.   

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, DR.  I just have more fuel in the tank than my container will hold it and don't have tubing clamps. 

 

Does bleeding from the calipers flush out the old fluid from the ABS unit?  I'm assuming the old flat three-wire OBD plug won't activate the ABS unit? 

[dirtrider]

15 minutes ago, Paddler said:

 

Thanks, DR.  I just have more fuel in the tank than my container will hold it and don't have tubing clamps. 

 

Does bleeding from the calipers flush out the old fluid from the ABS unit?  I'm assuming the old flat three-wire OBD plug won't activate the ABS unit? 

Afternoon  Paddler

 

Sort of, it flushes most of the old fluid out but there will be a little remaining in the ABS system.  

 

A 3 wire connector is not an OBD system. One wire in the 3 wire connector can output the stored ASB codes but that is about all. 

 

You would need to cycle the ABS system to get both ABS piston displacement, system pressure, & fluid movement, about the only way to do that is an ABS stop. 

 

 

[Paddler]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon  Paddler

 

Sort of, it flushes most of the old fluid out but there will be a little remaining in the ABS system.  

 

A 3 wire connector is not an OBD system. One wire in the 3 wire connector can output the stored ASB codes but that is about all. 

 

You would need to cycle the ABS system to get both ABS piston displacement, system pressure, & fluid movement, about the only way to do that is an ABS stop. 

 

 

 

Tank is off, lines are installed.  This video shows 6 bleed nipples, which I assume is due to the integrated brakes:

 

 

My bike only has two, shown here:

 

  

 

The left nipple bleeds the lines that go to the rear, the right lines go to the front.  My question is whether there are more nipples under the black cover on the right or not.  I bled the two nipples shown, and think I'm done.

[dirtrider]

24 minutes ago, Paddler said:

 

Tank is off, lines are installed.  This video shows 6 bleed nipples, which I assume is due to the integrated brakes:

 

 

My bike only has two, shown here:

 

  

 

The left nipple bleeds the lines that go to the rear, the right lines go to the front.  My question is whether there are more nipples under the black cover on the right or not.  I bled the two nipples shown, and think I'm done.

Evening  Paddler

 

It's on the Internet so it must be true, eh?

 

That video is for the later I-ABS (wizzy) brakes, those have 2 wheel circuits, 2 control circuits & crossover circuits, so LOTS of bleed nipples. 

 

Your 1100 has the older (ABS II) non-servo system so only 2 bleed nipples.  

[MT Wallet]

Paddler,

I changed out my brake lines a couple of years ago on a 2000 R1100RT and bleed the ABS in the process. Others may disagree with me, but I felt that if I didn't flush it out any old in the lines crud could cause the ABS unit to fail due to crud build up. So far all is well. Good luck.

[Paddler]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Evening  Paddler

 

It's on the Internet so it must be true, eh?

 

That video is for the later I-ABS (wizzy) brakes, those have 2 wheel circuits, 2 control circuits & crossover circuits, so LOTS of bleed nipples. 

 

Your 1100 has the older (ABS II) non-servo system so only 2 bleed nipples.  

Thanks, DR, that's what I thought.  New SS braided lines, CL sintered metallic pads all around, new fluid, etc.  After bleeding, the front lever feels a bit softer than before.  I have wrapped a part of a bike inner tube around the lever and grip to put pressure on the lever and will rebleed it tomorrow.  Hopefully that will firm up the front.

 

Now I just need to do my HES and it should be good for another 25 years.

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, Paddler said:

Thanks, DR, that's what I thought.  New SS braided lines, CL sintered metallic pads all around, new fluid, etc.  After bleeding, the front lever feels a bit softer than before.  I have wrapped a part of a bike inner tube around the lever and grip to put pressure on the lever and will rebleed it tomorrow.  Hopefully that will firm up the front.

 

Now I just need to do my HES and it should be good for another 25 years.

Morning Paddler

 

CL sintered metallic pads all around-- Your 1100R came with organic rear brake pads, the ABS programming was calibrated for rear organic brake pads. 

 

But the other thing to keep in mind is some of the 1100R bikes used plastic rear caliper pistons so those really should stay with organic rear brake pads due to the higher heat transfer using metallic rear brake pads.   

[Paddler]

Yes, I remember you mentioning that.  But Beemer Boneyard doesn't sell CL organic rear pads, so I just went with the sintered.  Didn't want to mix and match.  My rear caliper pistons are steel, so I didn't think it was a big deal.  I don't use the rear brake aggressively anyway, and before I did this work they didn't seem to do much.  Even now they don't do all that much.

[Paddler]

DR, can you explain why zip tying or bungy cording, or using an innertube as I did overnight firms up the brake lever pull?  It seems weird to me, and I've read pros and cons to doing so.  It worked well last time I replaced the brake lines, so I tried it last night.  After rebleeding them this morning the brakes feel perfect, but it felt soft last night.  Incidentally, I hung a 12# downrigger ball off the rear lever.

 

That makes me curious as to how they fill the system at the factory.  Do they do it retrograde from the calipers?

[dirtrider]

18 minutes ago, Paddler said:

DR, can you explain why zip tying or bungy cording, or using an innertube as I did overnight firms up the brake lever pull?  It seems weird to me, and I've read pros and cons to doing so.  It worked well last time I replaced the brake lines, so I tried it last night.  After rebleeding them this morning the brakes feel perfect, but it felt soft last night.  Incidentally, I hung a 12# downrigger ball off the rear lever.

 

That makes me curious as to how they fill the system at the factory.  Do they do it retrograde from the calipers?

Afternoon   Paddler

 

The factory fill is a backfill from the caliper bleed screws up. Air likes to rise on the fluid so backfilling from the bottom up pushes the air UP & out with the fluid. 

 

As for tying the lever or foot pedal, sometimes it works & sometimes it doesn't & something just sitting unused overnight helps. 

 

Th idea of keeping pressure on the brake system overnight compresses a lot of smaller air bubbles into larger (combined) air bubbles. If the larger air bubble is in a place that it can rise to the top then out into a reservoir then it works. If the air bubble is in something like the caliper or in a non-vertical line then the air can't purge itself out. 

 

Just allowing the brakes to sit unused overnight can also allow those smaller air bubbles to rise to the top & out, it just takes more time. 

 

 

[Dave P]

I didn't read all if the posts on this thread (sorry) but I wanted to give my 2c. I replaced my old rubber lines maybe 5 or 6 years ago, 96 RT. When bleeding after the installation, the front and rear bleeder screws pushed out old fluid, but when I bled the abs pump the fluid was really really dark. Terrible old nasty fluid. go ahead and bleed that abs pump is what Id suggest. You might be surprised what comes out! Dave