1994 R1100RSL - Replacing Clutch and looking for the most cost effective options ( Parts Source )

[Bill Cats]

Hello,

Replacing my clutch and have a couple questions :

1- I was down to the shinny rivets on the friction disk on my 94,,   Hot spots on the clutch parts,,, does that mean they require replacement OR can i take emery cloth to them on a piece of glass and just replace friction disk...???

 

2- who is the best source for clutch kit / parts

 

3 - what  EXACTLY are the lubrication products and points for clutch disk on spline shaft / splines on trans / drive shafts

 

4 - I did notice on my pumpkin final drive some slop side to side in the unit  ( Drive shaft side ) and some final drive lube leaking out ( not much ) ,,,

Can you recommend someone i could send to for a seal replacement / check out OR is it even necessary ,,, it was about a tea spoon of lube in the inner case where the drive shaft site and it definitely came from the pumpkin drive,,,, 

 

5 - what don't i know that you should tell me now rather than when i have my bike back together :) 

 

 

 

[Jim Moore]

Beemer Boneyard sells a replacement disk that is reasonably priced. If you decide to replace hard parts, you need to replace everything. I don't remember the exact issue, but they made changes to the hard parts in the middle of the production run. Your old flywheel won't work with new clutch parts (I think). DR or the guys at Beemer Boneyard can probably explain it better than me.

[dirtrider]

Bill, Jim

 

There was a clutch package change in late 1997, completely different clutch disk & pressure plate parts. (I have a service bulletin on that). The newer clutch disk won't work with the pre 12/1997 pressure plate. 

 

But, to complicate it even more the BMW parts manual does list a pre 12/1997 clutch disk but no mention of the need for the later pressure plate. 

So, I don't know how to advise you on this issue other than to want you to be very careful on matching the new clutch disk to the proper pressure plate.  

 

You also should (per BMW anyhow) replace the 6 clutch cover bolts & washers. Due to bolt stretch from original torquing I would guess. 

 

One thing I can say, the early 1994 RSL is a very strange motorcycle with a number of early odd-ball parts, very limited information, some mechanical tasks are not spelled out correctly in R-1100 service manuals, & a real PAIN to find the correct information.  

 

Double, triple check everything before just believing one information or service information source.  

 

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Bill 

 

As for lubrication points. 

 

Splines on clutch plate and gearbox input shaft.

 

Diaphragm spring contact surface on clutch housing.

 

Diaphragm spring contact surface on pressure 
plate.

 

Push rod on both ends.

 

Book calls for  Optimoly MP3 paste.

 

I still use the Optimoly MP3 as I still have a small amount but you probably won't find any at a reasonable price. 

A lot of BMW owners are now using Honda (M-77) moly paste.

 

Just be careful in lubricating any rotating parts with Moly lube, use very sparingly as you don't want a Moly based grease to get on any of the clutch friction surfaces.  

[Bill Cats]

26 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Bill, Jim

 

There was a clutch package change in late 1997, completely different clutch disk & pressure plate parts. (I have a service bulletin on that). The newer clutch disk won't work with the pre 12/1997 pressure plate. 

 

But, to complicate it even more the BMW parts manual does list a pre 12/1997 clutch disk but no mention of the need for the later pressure plate. 

So, I don't know how to advise you on this issue other than to want you to be very careful on matching the new clutch disk to the proper pressure plate.  

 

You also should (per BMW anyhow) replace the 6 clutch cover bolts & washers. Due to bolt stretch from original torquing I would guess. 

 

One thing I can say, the early 1994 RSL is a very strange motorcycle with a number of early odd-ball parts, very limited information, some mechanical tasks are not spelled out correctly in R-1100 service manuals, & a real PAIN to find the correct information.  

 

Double, triple check everything before just believing one information or service information source.  

 

 

I do see hotspots on the hard parts BUT what are ur thoughts on emery paper and glass ,,, laying the hard parts on them and working them slightly,,,? anyone doen this before,,, do they look to far gone ,,,, or ???   

[dirtrider]

25 minutes ago, Bill Cats said:

I do see hotspots on the hard parts BUT what are ur thoughts on emery paper and glass ,,, laying the hard parts on them and working them slightly,,,? anyone doen this before,,, do they look to far gone ,,,, or ???   

Morning Bill 

 

Personally I would clean it up & sand it then see what it looks & feels like. What does the pressure plate look like?  

 

You are looking at over $1000.00 for a new full clutch assembly so saving what you can would be the first thing that I looked at. 

 

How was it launching before removal, if you had a nice smooth clutch engagement before removal then I see no reason you won't have the same after a new disk install (as long as you burnish the new disk in properly).

 

When you install new disk using old  clamping surfaces (cover & pressure plate) you need to be careful with clutch break-in as it is easy to glaze the new disk until it fully seats into the old  (somewhat irregular) clamping surfaces. 

 

If you had clutch chatter on engagement before then probably look to a new cover & possibly a new pressure plate. 

 

But you first need to see if you can find a disk that will work with your original cover & pressure plate as the later disk is a different thickness.    

 

Hopefully you marked the original cover & pressure plate clocking BEFORE removal as that clutch is a balanced assembly & your chances of finding the original balance paint marks will be pretty iffy. 

 

If you didn't mark before removal then see if you can figure out the original clocking due to bolt or (clamp-up) whiteness marks before cleaning or sanding on anything.  

[Bill Cats]

eeerrrrr,,, i didnt mark and yes i will try .... 

looking for a # for the beemer boneyard ,,,

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Bill

 

Customer Service: (973) 775-3495
12pm-5pm EST Mon-Fri

 

Be sure to tell them you are a member of this (BMWsporttouring) site as they usually give a discount to members of this web site.  

[Bill Cats]

sooooooo   i found an old invoice from the PO from  1996 :)  - REALLY ,,,, what a score,,,  

it showed a superseded  ( Clutch Parts Kit # 21212330446  )  - was installed ,,

- the new part number for that clutch pack kit  came up  21212325876

- which when unpacked came up to a friction disk 21217670453 -

- which was a NON upgraded to the 97 or newer,,, which makes sence,,, How could it have the upgrade if it was installed in 1996 - 

Soooooooo i ordered friction disk 21217670453 as the clutch worked smooth and engaged nice BUT slipped when i was going say 70 - 80 mph and opened it up wide on a up grade ,,, 

I will be sure i keep it nice and flat on glass and clean up the old hard parts...

 

Now ill try to find some Optimoly MP3 paste .... ( if anyone knows something i can pick up at NAPA, or somewhere like that please insert name here ____________ . 

 

and follow Dirtrider's  advice to see if i can find original orientation of hard parts in clutch pack  because i tear things apart FIRST and ask questions later ,,,lol 

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Quote

 

 which when unpacked came up to a friction disk 21217670453 -

- which was a NON upgraded to the 97 or newer,,, which makes sence,,, How could it have the upgrade if it was installed in 1996 -

 

Afternoon Bill 

 

The 21217670453 disk goes with the pre 12/97 cover & pressure plate. As long as the pre 12/97 motorcycle hasn't been updated to the post 12/97 clutch package then you have the correct disk for a 1994 motorcycle. 

[Bill Cats]

what a pita   ,,,   lol ,,, thank u for the help...

anything at napa for the spline lube?

[dirtrider]

1 minute ago, Bill Cats said:

what a pita   ,,,   lol ,,, thank u for the help...

anything at napa for the spline lube?

Afternoon Bill 

 

Probably but I don't use those lubes.

 

E-Bay should have the Honda  M-77.

 

 

[Bill Cats]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Bill 

 

Probably but I don't use those lubes.

 

E-Bay should have the Honda  M-77.

 

 

Honda M-77 ordered :)   

Now thats used ONLY on the transmission splines and VERY lightly where the clutch friction disk slides on the splines, and lightly where the long thin clutch rod touched the metal disk spring correct ?  then high temp bearing  grease on the drive shaft to final drive and the final drive bearings  30MM nut assembly back there also correct...?

[dirtrider]

1 minute ago, Bill Cats said:

Honda M-77 ordered :)   

Now thats used ONLY on the transmission splines and VERY lightly where the clutch friction disk slides on the splines, and lightly where the long thin clutch rod touched the metal disk spring correct ?  then high temp bearing  grease on the drive shaft to final drive and the final drive bearings  30MM nut assembly back there also correct...?

Evening Bill 

 

I would use the Moly grease on the trans & final drive to driveshaft splines. Also on both ends of the clutch push rod.

 

You might also think about working some fresh wheel bearing high temp grease into the clutch release lever bearing as those go somewhat dry on older 1100 bikes. 

[Bill Cats]

Will do 😃

[JamesW]

On 9/27/2023 at 10:30 AM, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Bill 

 

The 21217670453 disk goes with the pre 12/97 cover & pressure plate. As long as the pre 12/97 motorcycle hasn't been updated to the post 12/97 clutch package then you have the correct disk for a 1994 motorcycle. 

 

Hello D.R.,  Checked this part number with BMW parts and it is listed as being the clutch disc "From 1997".  Are you sure this is the correct part for a pre-1997 R1100RS?  I am going to call Beemer Boneyard Monday and ask them.  I doubt I'll ever need to replace this part because my riding career will most likely end before I need clutch parts but you never know.  You are SO correct that these early R1100RS bikes are outliers.  Can't thank you enough for sharing your knowledge here.  We would be in trouble without you for sure.  

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, JamesW said:

 

Hello D.R.,  Checked this part number with BMW parts and it is listed as being the clutch disc "From 1997".  Are you sure this is the correct part for a pre-1997 R1100RS?  I am going to call Beemer Boneyard Monday and ask them.  I doubt I'll ever need to replace this part because my riding career will most likely end before I need clutch parts but you never know.  You are SO correct that these early R1100RS bikes are outliers.  Can't thank you enough for sharing your knowledge here.  We would be in trouble without you for sure.  

Afternoon James 

 

My parts book definitely shows it fitting the pre 12/97 1100RS.   

21217670453

CLUTCH PLATE - KD-SCHEIBE (to 12/97)

 

 

But, because of your post above I just checked the after 12/97 clutch disk & that also shows the 21217670453 as fitting the post 12/97 model run.

 

So, either one of those is incorrect (possible) or the pre 12/97 disk assumes that it has the updated post 12/97 clutch parts already installed. (probable)_  But BMW doesn't break it down & explain in any detail.  

 

Early BMW 1100 bikes (especially the RS) are a nightmare when it comes to what clutch parts will work. 

 

My very old BMW service bulletin showed that the early-clutch-parts (pre 12/97 bike) needed to use the post 12/97 clutch parts (as the original thickness disk was no longer available), but the later parts book shows a clutch disk for the pre 12/97 1100 bikes. 

 

I hope Bill comes back & reads this as it will pay him to FULLY verify that the existing 21217670453 disk will work properly with his existing clutch parts before installing.  

 

Even though the BMW parts book lists a pre 12/97 disk (by itself)  it doesn't list the spring, pressure plate , or cover separately (only as a set including the disk) so it looks like the pre 12/97 most likely will  need the entire $1000.00+ post 12/97 clutch package  (I would need the parts in front of me  to actually measure). 

 

On the older 1100 motorcycles (post 12/97),  good used E-Bay cover, pressure plate & possibly a spring from a post 12/97 1100  might be a good alternative. 

 

The last early 1100 bike that I put a clutch disk in the pressure plate & cover were in great shape & I had like-new early disk hanging on my shop wall so I just used that. 

 

I think I still have a very low mileage pre 12/97 clutch disk somewhere in the attic of my shop, if I run across that I will measure the disk thickness & post it. That info would be great to have available for riders looking for/or/ replacing a pre 12/97 clutch disk. 

 

The other point of knowledge is that BMW also offered a clutch disk for the early 1100 bikes that had a tighter spline fit to reduce clutch rattle (long out of stock now). Shortly after they released that tighter disk they came out with another service bulletin that said for dealers not to install the tighter disk under warranty without special permission as apparently a lot of riders tried to get that disk installed on BMW's dime.    

 

 

[JamesW]

This does not sound good.  There must be some info somewhere about the thickness of what we think are two different clutch disks.  $1000 is a lot of money to have to spend on a clutch disk replacement on what is a DIY project.  It does sound like one should count on a complete clutch pack replacement project else risk having to disassemble everything a second time in case the disc turns out not compatible with a pre-1997 bike clutch pack and one ends up replacing the clutch pack in the end with the post-1997 pack.

 

 

[JamesW]

I think I got this figured out from BMW parts list.  For the pre-1997 R1100RS BMW sells a set of clutch parts in a set with part # 0421212325876 for just over $1K.  Basically a clutch pack.  This appears to be the only way of assuring you get complete compatibility for the pre-1997 bike.

 

On the post-1997 R1100RS they do not offer the parts in a set as they do for the pre-1997 R1100RS but are purchased only separately.  This is confusing but this is how it looks to me.  I think they should have changed the individual part numbers for post/pre-1997 bikes but the good folks at BMW oft times march to the tune of a different drummer for sure.  This seems a lot for a clutch disc replacement but again we are talking Bring More Wallet.

 

Also, the English made clutch disc for $100 on Beemer Boneyard might not be for the pre-1997 R1100RS so I would definitely check that out with them and they might not know for sure in which case I would bite the bullet and just get the 4 piece kit for $1K from BMW.  It's a lot to spend for this project but if the bike is in the condition mine is or close to it I would go for it.  A lot cheaper than buying a new BMW or for that matter practically anything and I would prefer the '94 RS anyway for a lot of reasons.

[Bill Cats]

Well the disk is here on my back porch in a box,,, but unfortunately I am sending u this message from the hospital (( lol

If I find myself in God's good graces I will be back home tomorrow and will see if it fits ,,

BUT ,,

I'm hearing that it may possibly "fit" and assemble BUT the friction part may be incorrect,,??

As in to thick or thin ??

I have a micrometer so I can measure things if folks think they can save me from tearing  this apart 2 times ,, perhaps that disk in the attic can yield some valuable measurements,,?

 

I additional info will be appreciated ,,, and again God willing and first things first will be to visually inspect the old and new disks,, again it's the  21217670453 disk I ordered because the invoice from 1996 where BMW installed a replacement clutch pack that's current part number is  21212325876,,,  and an old part # actually on the invoice  of 21212330446  ) 

[Bill Cats]

Thank u again

[JamesW]

Hi Bill,  I wish you luck.  Worst case is it won't work.   Check out this link to the BMW parts list and notice there are two parts lists for the clutch.  The first is for the pre-1997 and the second is for the post-1997.  Look at both parts list and notice how the part #s are the same for the individual parts but only the list for parts for a pre-1997 show the $1K part which contains all 4 critical parts.

 

Good luck and welcome to the state of never ending confusion.  lol..lol..

https://shop.maxbmw.com/fiche/DiagramsMain.aspx?vid=51676&rnd=09082020

[Jim Moore]

Looks to me like the disk is the same for both the pre-97 and post-97. I think you'll be OK. 

 

I replaced the disk only a few years ago. It juddered for awhile on launch while it bedded in, but it's been fine since that.

[dirtrider]

38 minutes ago, Jim Moore said:

Looks to me like the disk is the same for both the pre-97 and post-97. I think you'll be OK. 

 

I replaced the disk only a few years ago. It juddered for awhile on launch while it bedded in, but it's been fine since that.

Morning Jim, James, Bill

 

According to my old BMW service bulletin the clutch disk is not the same between the pre 12/97 & the post 12/97 with the pre 12/97 needing the post 12/97 (later)  pressure plate, when a new clutch disk was installed.

 

The BIG problem is: BMW has changed the clutch disk part numbers many times over the years since BMW  published that info to dealers so who the heck knows  "what works with what"  based on the present part numbers.

 

Once the post 12/97 (1998 1100 bikes) came out the entire  new (improved) clutch pack (including different disk) was phased in as a replacement for the earlier pre 12/97 1100 motorcycles. 

 

So a number of early pre 12/97 1100 bikes got the later entire clutch  pack at warranty replacement or even customer pay replacement. 

 

Back a few years ago you couldn't JUST install the current replacement clutch disk in a unmolested pre 12/97 1100 (it wouldn't release properly). 

 

So the big question is, has BMW "currently" sourced a clutch disk that will somehow work in both the pre & post 12/97 bikes. The parts book doesn't mention that. Plus, to me, it sounds doubtful that is possible.

 

The next question is, was Bill's 1100RS updated to the post 12/97 clutch parts at some time in it's past history? That is possible as his old invoice shows the 21212325876 clutch pack was installed. 

 

The good news, Bill's early 1100RS seems to have the  21212325876 required clutch parts already installed & my parts book does show the 21217670453 disk correct for that clutch pack. 

 

So it SHOULD work with the 21217670453 disk  but BMW is so vague on this that nothing is certain.  

 

 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Jim Moore said:

Looks to me like the disk is the same for both the pre-97 and post-97. I think you'll be OK. 

 

I replaced the disk only a few years ago. It juddered for awhile on launch while it bedded in, but it's been fine since that.

Morning Jim

 

This is mainly for future readers___ 

 

The (current) book does show the clutch disk the same for pre & post 12/97 1100 motorcycles. What it doesn't mention is that the pressure plate is different on the pre & post 12/97 1100 motorcycles.  But to confuse even more a number of early pre 1100 motorcycles were updated for one reason or another to the later pressure plate with the new disk so that is also something to figure out when replacing a pre 12/97 clutch.    

[JamesW]

Luckily I'll probably never have to go there but if I did I would just bite the bullet and get the 4 piece $1K pack from BMW and be done with it.  Less confusing, imo.  

 

Yes, this bike is certainly an outlier just look at the different transmissions the R1100 was fitted with during its run. What, the M94 transmission had "O" rings installed between the forks just to quiet the M93 down and then the "O" rings disintegrated down the road.  I forget what issues the M97 had but then it turns out the original M93 is the best of them all.  Wow!  My M93 trans is super quiet now after running it most of its life with Motul 80-90 gear lube with molybdenum in it and no need for "O" rings.

 

Well, sorry I got side tracked again. 

 

 

[Bill Cats]

God has blessed me with a great Stress Test imaging ( Cardio ) !

 

Below u will see far left the new disk  21217670453 disk I ordered sitting next to the actual installed disk ,,

According to the 1996 invoice calling out a replacement clutch pack that's current part number is  21212325876,,,  and an old part # actually on the invoice  of 21212330446 ..

The next picture shows the new disks on there sides,,, new = 6mm  ,   old = 4mm and is worn to the rivets,,,

Im looking for your keen eyes and will make any measurements yu would like BUT they sure look identical .... wahooooooo !

 

ps: i make absolutely zero sense of the stamped on white number...

 

I plan to install BUT will wait for your thoughts before i mount it up...

 

 

[dirtrider]

23 minutes ago, Bill Cats said:

God has blessed me with a great Stress Test imaging ( Cardio ) !

 

Below u will see far left the new disk  21217670453 disk I ordered sitting next to the actual installed disk ,,

According to the 1996 invoice calling out a replacement clutch pack that's current part number is  21212325876,,,  and an old part # actually on the invoice  of 21212330446 ..

The next picture shows the new disks on there sides,,, new = 6mm  ,   old = 4mm and is worn to the rivets,,,

Im looking for your keen eyes and will make any measurements yu would like BUT they sure look identical .... wahooooooo !

 

ps: i make absolutely zero sense of the stamped on white number...

 

I plan to install BUT will wait for your thoughts before i mount it up...

 

 

Evening Bill  

 

I found an older BMW parts book & guess what was in it?

 

It shows the supersedes all the way up to your new 21217670453,  it looks like that  old disk you pulled out is in that supersede list. 

 

Part Number: 21217670453___ supersedes the below disks. 
Supersession(s): 21-21-7-670-453; 21212325351; 21212325352; 21212325862; 21212325864; 21212330022; 21217670452

 

According to my old book It looks like the latest 21217670453 supersedes your 21212330022  disk. 

 

That 21212325864 disk (just before your 21212330022 disk) is the one mentioned in that old service bulletin I have as the disk that goes with the updated clutch pack. 

 

It looks like you are good to go but make darn sure that the clutch releases right after installing the transmission (before you button everything else up).

 

 

[Bill Cats]

I will, probably going to mess with it tomorrow morning, I cannot thank you and James and all the folks for all your expertise, there is absolutely no way I could spend $1,000 right now, especially on a 2500 motorcycle, :-) it is my baby and will be the last bike I ever owned so I would just have to have found a way to fix it at a reasonable price, as soon as I get the Molly paste I can assemble, I absolutely love having to wait for something like the Molly Pace because it forces me to clean up everything really well :-) lol tomorrow if you don't mind I will send a picture of what I believe is the drive shaft in phase :-) just for your eyeballs and confirmation perhaps

[Bill Cats]

Looking at this picture the flywheel would be to the left and the rear of the bike would be to the right, the spring is cuped facing toward the front of the bike which would be to the left and facing the wood stove,,,  and the long yolk on the clutch desk is also facing the flywheel to the left  also, just want to verify this

[dirtrider]

16 hours ago, Bill Cats said:

Looking at this picture the flywheel would be to the left and the rear of the bike would be to the right, the spring is cuped facing toward the front of the bike which would be to the left and facing the wood stove,,,  and the long yolk on the clutch desk is also facing the flywheel to the left  also, just want to verify this

Afternoon Bill 

 

Is that the way it came apart? Usually the long side of the clutch hub faces the transmission.  

 

I don't think I mentioned it in the original lubrication points question but see those locating pins on the cover, put just a very light smear of Moly grease on those at re-assembly.

 

[Bill Cats]

Not sure )) lol

I screwed up

 

[dirtrider]

3 minutes ago, Bill Cats said:

Not sure )) lol

I screwed up

 

Afternoon Bill 

 

Look at the score marks on your old disk & on the clutch cover and pressure plate to see in you can match the score marks up by disk side. 

 

I am nowhere near my shop or clutch info this weekend so I can't confirm but I'm pretty sure the long side of the clutch disk goes rearward.  

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Bill 

 

Is this what it looked like after you removed the transmission? 

 

[Bill Cats]

4 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Bill 

 

Is this what it looked like after you removed the transmission? 

 

Don't have a photo of that soooooo I keep checking here to see if someone knows for sure,,,

PS I didn't get my moly paste yet so no time lost ,,, whenever someone has access to check for sure then ill reassemble )))

[Bill Cats]

Wahool !!!

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, Bill Cats said:

Wahool !!!

Morning Bill 

 

 

Could you figure out how the old clutch parts were installed & clocked? 

 

If you couldn't figure that out but CAN find the original balance paint marks (usually white but not always) those DO NOT LINE UP the proper sequence is to install with the paint marks clocked 120° apart. 

 

 

 

[Bill Cats]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning Bill 

 

 

Could you figure out how the old clutch parts were installed & clocked? 

 

If you couldn't figure that out but CAN find the original balance paint marks (usually white but not always) those DO NOT LINE UP the proper sequence is to install with the paint marks clocked 120° apart. 

 

 

 

i actually broke out the super strong magnified goggles and hunted tool marks and got it 99% what i believe is the correct position :) !!

 Ill milk this thread for all its worth,,, it was  a SERIOUS PITA with gas all over getting the gas tank off sooooo ,,,

   Q - can i use 2 regular quick connects with duel shut off ...  ( IS there high pressure on the 2 lines from tank to what looks to be a high pressure pump mounted center in the frame ..? ) what pressure does the tank pump make to that unit ...?  OR...? is the high pressure between that " device " on the frame to the fuel injectors ONLY ...?

    Q2 - is that a 5/16 OD on the quick connect ( not asking the size of the line BUT asking the actual OD of the quick connect IF i can use one...?

     Q3 -   Would it be helpful to the group if i took clear pics of ALL part # on all clutch kit parts ? old disk , new disk , P Plate, etc......? or at this point is the ONLY question  we have for future members is " does the friction disk ( new replacement one  21217670453 that i used ) fit everywhere ...? 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Bill Cats said:

i actually broke out the super strong magnified goggles and hunted tool marks and got it 99% what i believe is the correct position :) !!

 Ill milk this thread for all its worth,,, it was  a SERIOUS PITA with gas all over getting the gas tank off sooooo ,,,

   Q - can i use 2 regular quick connects with duel shut off ...  ( IS there high pressure on the 2 lines from tank to what looks to be a high pressure pump mounted center in the frame ..? ) what pressure does the tank pump make to that unit ...?  OR...? is the high pressure between that " device " on the frame to the fuel injectors ONLY ...?

    Q2 - is that a 5/16 OD on the quick connect ( not asking the size of the line BUT asking the actual OD of the quick connect IF i can use one...?

     Q3 -   Would it be helpful to the group if i took clear pics of ALL part # on all clutch kit parts ? old disk , new disk , P Plate, etc......? or at this point is the ONLY question  we have for future members is " does the friction disk ( new replacement one  21217670453 that i used ) fit everywhere ...? 

Morning Bill 

 

It was  a SERIOUS PITA with gas all over getting the gas tank off sooooo ,,,

 

   Q - can i use 2 regular quick connects with duel shut off ...  ( IS there high pressure on the 2 lines from tank to what looks to be a high pressure pump mounted center in the frame ..? ) what pressure does the tank pump make to that unit ...?  OR...? is the high pressure between that " device " on the frame to the fuel injectors ONLY ...?-- You can install quick disconnects, I do recommend using aftermarket steel ones as the factory plastic QD's  tend to crack & leak.The fuel system pressure side hose can run up to 60+ psi with a deadhead but typically operates in the mid 40 psi. range, the return runs at a much/much lower pressure as it is fully open on the fuel tank end.

 

    Q2 - is that a 5/16 OD on the quick connect ( not asking the size of the line BUT asking the actual OD of the quick connect IF i can use one...?-- They are 8mm but 5/16" is extremely close so will work. Just be sure that you get quick disconnects with internal check valves on both sides as that prevents any fuel back flow when disconnected.  Do not use standard worm gear type clamps as they dig into the hose & ruin the inner plies so you can have future leaks at the hose to QD nipple. 

 

 

     Q3 -   Would it be helpful to the group if i took clear pics of ALL part # on all clutch kit parts ? old disk , new disk , P Plate, etc......? or at this point is the ONLY question  we have for future members is " does the friction disk ( new replacement one  21217670453 that i used ) fit everywhere ...?  -- I'm not sure that will help much as you have an older clutch pack update (even pre 12/97 parts) so the part numbers probably don't reflect what the current clutch pack replacement parts will have, & you don't have the original pre 12/97 clutch pack parts. 

Original pre 12/97 clutch part number & disk thickness would be a big help but unfortunately your clutch parts were replaced with updated. If you post part numbers of an interim updated 1994 RS motorcycle then  future readers might confuse those with what the 1994 1100 RS originally came with.  

 

I think the posts above pretty well explain what to look for & what is needed on an early 1100RS clutch replacement. 

 

This thread as it stands offers a lot of clutch info for the pre 12/97 1100 motorcycles. 

[Bill Cats]

thank you !! 

[Bill Cats]

[Bill Cats]

Hello folks, well the job is moving along, which drive shaft is placement is correct, the one with the yellow snippers on it or the ones without the yellow snippers in it, I anxiously await your response :-) PS couldn't figure out how to get the written words in with the same pictures upload so it's the screenshots before this question

[dirtrider]

18 minutes ago, Bill Cats said:

Hello folks, well the job is moving along, which drive shaft is placement is correct, the one with the yellow snippers on it or the ones without the yellow snippers in it, I anxiously await your response :-) PS couldn't figure out how to get the written words in with the same pictures upload so it's the screenshots before this question

Evening Bill

 

The top, just align the non-angular U joint caps best you can. 

 

[Bill Cats]

Thank you very much for the quick response, PS my blood pressure is 200 over 200 right now, LOL is there a special secret to get the dowel pins started on the clutch pack into the flywheel, I'm almost ready to grind a starter point on them, LOL I know I shouldn't do that cuz it will throw the weight of the whole clutch pack off but, okay what's the secret, I even tried it in all three different positions just to try to get it started, individually the alignment pins on the clutch pack all fit into the  flywheel holes but collectively you can't draw them in or even get it started because the bolts comma / are about three threads too short to draw the pins together and get the clutch pack back into the flywheel

[dirtrider]

12 hours ago, Bill Cats said:

Thank you very much for the quick response, PS my blood pressure is 200 over 200 right now, LOL is there a special secret to get the dowel pins started on the clutch pack into the flywheel, I'm almost ready to grind a starter point on them, LOL I know I shouldn't do that cuz it will throw the weight of the whole clutch pack off but, okay what's the secret, I even tried it in all three different positions just to try to get it started, individually the alignment pins on the clutch pack all fit into the  flywheel holes but collectively you can't draw them in or even get it started because the bolts comma / are about three threads too short to draw the pins together and get the clutch pack back into the flywheel

Morning Bill

 

Make sure the disk is pretty well centered__

 

That cover needs to pull on fairly straight, try some slightly longer bolts until you get it lined up & started on. Once the pins just start engaging the holes use a rubber mallet to rap on the cover to get the pins to line up then start working the bolts slightly tighter & keep rapping it with a rubber mallet. 

 

Once it is pulled in little then switch back to the factory bolts. 

[Bill Cats]

Ahhh,, I bought the longer ones yesterday and got it all on this morning ,,

I drew it in  1/2 turn on each one in a star patern and it went together nicely , I bought a plastic clutch alignment tool and it slides in and spins easily with all the bolts torqued,,

Goal for today  is transmission, driveshaft , sub frame back in place ))!

This old girl will have a new pep in her step thanks to u all ! 🙂,

[dirtrider]

32 minutes ago, Bill Cats said:

Ahhh,, I bought the longer ones yesterday and got it all on this morning ,,

I drew it in  1/2 turn on each one in a star patern and it went together nicely , I bought a plastic clutch alignment tool and it slides in and spins easily with all the bolts torqued,,

Goal for today  is transmission, driveshaft , sub frame back in place ))!

This old girl will have a new pep in her step thanks to u all ! 🙂,

Morning Bill

 

A little hint__ after you bolt the transmission on hook the clutch cable up, then adjust it, then see if you can get a clutch release. (you don't want to find that it won't release after the frame & other stiff is installed). 

 

 

[JamesW]

Kind of a non-applicable question but I've long wondered why BMW went with the two U-joints one on each end of the drive shaft.  Seems to me one at the transmission end would have been all that's needed.  I think a wet clutch does have certain advantages as long as you never have a transmission problem.

[dirtrider]

58 minutes ago, JamesW said:

Kind of a non-applicable question but I've long wondered why BMW went with the two U-joints one on each end of the drive shaft.  Seems to me one at the transmission end would have been all that's needed.  I think a wet clutch does have certain advantages as long as you never have a transmission problem.

Morning James

 

It needs 2 U joints as the final drive angle doesn't stay  in sync with the swing arm. The rear link pivots are not in the same place as the swing arm pivots so the swing arm movement forces final drive articulation. 

 

The whole idea with the rear suspension design is to prevent rear suspension jacking during acceleration. 

[Bill Cats]

3 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning Bill

 

A little hint__ after you bolt the transmission on hook the clutch cable up, then adjust it, then see if you can get a clutch release . (you don't want to find that it won't release after the frame & other stiff is installed). 

 

 

Absolutely,, I seen u noted that earlier, I will absolutely make sure I lubricate that clutch release / adjustment  lever inside the transmission case also as you noted, and keep you posted, thank you so much for the guidance , headed out to the garage today, finally finished up regular work