Electrical problem ?

[joeb]

Hi.  09 r1200 gs.

A few months ago I stalled the bike and it was totally dead electrically. Tightened the battery cables and after about 1/2 hr got it restarted. Got home, cleaned connectors and retightened . Bike ran well for a while. Came out to start bike one day and it was dead. Battery was 5 yrs old so replaced it with new YUSA AGM battery. Ran fine. Been off bike for about 10 days and now it was dead. Battery showed 10 volts. Charged it up and starts fine. With engine running steady 14.6 volts to battery. Previously I've left it unattended for weeks and it would start. I haven't added any equipment so have no idea what has changed. Any ideas from you ?

Thank you.

[dirtrider]

12 minutes ago, joeb said:

Hi.  09 r1200 gs.

A few months ago I stalled the bike and it was totally dead electrically. Tightened the battery cables and after about 1/2 hr got it restarted. Got home, cleaned connectors and retightened . Bike ran well for a while. Came out to start bike one day and it was dead. Battery was 5 yrs old so replaced it with new YUSA AGM battery. Ran fine. Been off bike for about 10 days and now it was dead. Battery showed 10 volts. Charged it up and starts fine. With engine running steady 14.6 volts to battery. Previously I've left it unattended for weeks and it would start. I haven't added any equipment so have no idea what has changed. Any ideas from you ?

Thank you.

Evening joeb

 

It sounds like something is staying alive after shutdown. Do you have anything hooked to the factory powers sockets or to the front GPS 12V connector?

 

Any added lights etc?

 

Any type of added fuse box under the  seat?

 

Do you have small DVM & know how to measure for a parasitic drain? 

 

 

[joeb]

Thanks for the response. I think I had a cell phone charger plugged into the GPS socket.

As far as I can tell , that socket doesn't stay hot when bike is shut down. Nothing new has been added recently.  I assume that even while shut down some current will be draining due to the electronics ? Not sure how to measure amount of current. If no current is supposed to flow, I could put a tester between the battery and it's cable.

[joeb]

My plan as of now is to get battery up to full charge , then see how much voltage drop occurs over nite or over a few days . If it drops significantly I will charge it up again, disconnect it from bike then monitor its voltage to see if the new battery is faulty.

 

One additional point. I do have halogen lights on the bike. I don't generally turn them off while it sits as they will not turn on without the engine running . I do see a module in the line leading to the lights. Is it possible that the module draws power when the switch is on even though the lights themselves are not drawing current ?  If so, would turning off the switch stop that module from drawing current ?  The module is connected to the battery. 

 

As I pointed out before, new problem that has developed without any new wiring added. 

 

Any thoughts on my process of elimination would be appreciated. 

Thanks

[dirtrider]

8 hours ago, joeb said:

My plan as of now is to get battery up to full charge , then see how much voltage drop occurs over nite or over a few days . If it drops significantly I will charge it up again, disconnect it from bike then monitor its voltage to see if the new battery is faulty.

 

One additional point. I do have halogen lights on the bike. I don't generally turn them off while it sits as they will not turn on without the engine running . I do see a module in the line leading to the lights. Is it possible that the module draws power when the switch is on even though the lights themselves are not drawing current ?  If so, would turning off the switch stop that module from drawing current ?  The module is connected to the battery. 

 

As I pointed out before, new problem that has developed without any new wiring added. 

 

Any thoughts on my process of elimination would be appreciated. 

Thanks

Morning  joeb

 

On the cell phone charger--- I have seen GPS units with built in power converters keep part of the system alive so don't totally discount your cell phone charger as causing the issue. 

 

On the halogen lights relay, I can't see enough of the circuit to tell what or how it is wired but something to look into. 

 

If you bought that motorcycle used are you sure then the socket that your cell phone charger is plugged into hasn't been directly wired to the battery (a number of 1200 riders do that).  

[joeb]

Still checking things out.  Charge on battery last night 12.82v. Disconnected the negative cable and halogen wire from battery, checked voltage just now . Battery showing 12.64v. So a small drop. Reconnected the negative cable and light wires . Will check for voltage drop in a while . When I disconnected negative bat cable and put my tester between the cable and battery negative terminal it did show voltage which I would think is normal as the electronics must use some electricity  ? Clock function comes to mind. I don't know how to tell how much electricity is being used to determine if flow is normal or excessive. 

[TSConver]

15 minutes ago, joeb said:

Still checking things out.  Charge on battery last night 12.82v. Disconnected the negative cable and halogen wire from battery, checked voltage just now . Battery showing 12.64v. So a small drop. Reconnected the negative cable and light wires . Will check for voltage drop in a while . When I disconnected negative bat cable and put my tester between the cable and battery negative terminal it did show voltage which I would think is normal as the electronics must use some electricity  ? Clock function comes to mind. I don't know how to tell how much electricity is being used to determine if flow is normal or excessive. 

 

Put an amp meter between the negative post and the negative cable.  Probably should see about 50 mA parasitic draw.  Anything over that is a problem.  Have to wait for everything to go to sleep that can take 5 to 10 min then the amp draw should drop down to the 50 mA range.

[dirtrider]

51 minutes ago, joeb said:

Still checking things out.  Charge on battery last night 12.82v. Disconnected the negative cable and halogen wire from battery, checked voltage just now . Battery showing 12.64v. So a small drop. Reconnected the negative cable and light wires . Will check for voltage drop in a while . When I disconnected negative bat cable and put my tester between the cable and battery negative terminal it did show voltage which I would think is normal as the electronics must use some electricity  ? Clock function comes to mind. I don't know how to tell how much electricity is being used to determine if flow is normal or excessive. 

Morning Joeb

 

When I disconnected negative bat cable and put my tester between the cable and battery negative terminal it did show voltage which I would think is normal--- That is usually not a valid test as every time you disconnect the cable then reconnect (or place your meter between the cable & battery post) the system comes partially alive.  

 

So disconnect the cable from the battery post, then put a jumper between the cable & battrey post, NOW connect your meter to the battery post & the cable. Then with the jumper still in place give it about 20 minutes for all to go back sleep. THEN remove the jumper & read the actual parasitic draw. 

 

My BMW data shows about a 2.5 Ma to 3 Ma draw is normal (after system shutdown) on the 2009 1200GS. You can't measure using voltage as that won't tell you anything useful.

 

 

[joeb]

My findings after following the procedure as you described. Using a cheap analog meter

DC parasite draw shows about 1Ma.

Battery has been holding a steady 12.64 v.

It appears battery and electrical systems are normal.  The GPS socket does not stay hot after bike shut down, so I still have no idea why the battery was dead after 9 days sitting in a warm garage. Thanks for your help.

[dirtrider]

On 9/15/2023 at 2:59 PM, joeb said:

My findings after following the procedure as you described. Using a cheap analog meter

DC parasite draw shows about 1Ma.

Battery has been holding a steady 12.64 v.

It appears battery and electrical systems are normal.  The GPS socket does not stay hot after bike shut down, so I still have no idea why the battery was dead after 9 days sitting in a warm garage. Thanks for your help.

Evening  joeb

 

That accessory socket shut down this time, but does it always shut down, that is the question?  On some of the GPS systems that I have seen it can keep the GPS circuit alive,  that doesn't always  happen, it can be kind of random. 

[joeb]

Good to know. Resolved to unplug charger and hope that is the cure. I do carry a jump start pack with me just in case.

Thanks gor all your help.

Cheers

[EjectTheDead]

Replacing the battery was a smart move, especially if it was 5 years old. The fact that it started after charging and is showing a steady 14.6 volts while running is positive.

[EjectTheDead]

On 12/30/2023 at 5:07 PM, EjectTheDead said:

Replacing the battery was a smart move, especially if it was 5 years old. The fact that it started after charging and is showing a steady 14.6 volts while running is positive.

Since you haven't added any equipment, it might be worth checking for any parasitic drains on the battery when the bike is off. Some devices or wiring can drain the battery over time. You can use a multimeter to measure the current draw with the bike off, and that might lead you to the source of the issue.

You can find more information about electrical issues and troubleshooting on the kanatautilitiesltd.ca website. I hope this helps you get to the bottom of your electrical problem. If you need further assistance, feel free to reach out. Good luck!

[dirtrider]

6 minutes ago, EjectTheDead said:

Since you haven't added any equipment, it might be worth checking for any parasitic drains on the battery when the bike is off. Some devices or wiring can drain the battery over time. You can use a multimeter to measure the current draw with the bike off, and that might lead you to the source of the issue.

You can find more information about electrical issues and troubleshooting on the kanatautilitiesltd.ca website. I hope this helps you get to the bottom of your electrical problem. If you need further assistance, feel free to reach out. Good luck!

Evening EjectTheDead

 

It isn't that easy on the BMW 1200GS, as I mentioned above, there are circuits that come alive at key-on but don't always go off promptly at key-off. 

 

To properly test the 1200 system it first needs a key-on cycle, then a key-off. Then the parasitic drain test needs to be run long enough to verify system total shutdown. 

 

The proper way to check on the 1200RT or GS is to unhook the positive battery cable.

 

Then, hook a jumper wire between the removed battery cable & battery post.

 

Then, also hook your amp meter in series with the removed battery cable & battery post.

 

Now turn the key to ON & allow the dash to fully boot & go through it's checks.

 

Then turn the key to off.

 

Next,  remove the jumper  wire & allow all the system load to go through the ammeter.

 

Look at the parasitic drain right then, but also come back in about 1/2 hour & check the parasitic drain again.  

 

The reason for the jumper wire is that most small meters can only handle up to 10 amps load without blowing the internal fuse.  Key-ON  can exceed that so the jumper wire is to protect the meter. You don't want unhook the jumper wire until key-OFF. 

 

Joeb hasn't posted back to this thread since September 15  so it seems he already solved his problem.