Want to Upgrade my old Zumo 665 - To What??

[BerettaRacer]

Hi

I've got an old stand alone Zumo 665 I put on the bike for trips.

 

Unfortunately, being an older model it has limited capabilities, memory storage, but the worst part is that it has the old LCD screen, not a newer LED screen and the majority of the time, especially with (polarized) sunglasses on I can't see the screen.

 

Without having to take out a second mortgage, what model would be a decent, stand alone, upgrade? And is there any chance I could use my existing hardwired mount or does each model use it's own proprietary mount?

 

Thx

BR

[dirtrider]

11 minutes ago, BerettaRacer said:

Hi

I've got an old stand alone Zumo 665 I put on the bike for trips.

 

Unfortunately, being an older model it has limited capabilities, memory storage, but the worst part is that it has the old LCD screen, not a newer LED screen and the majority of the time, especially with (polarized) sunglasses on I can't see the screen.

 

Without having to take out a second mortgage, what model would be a decent, stand alone, upgrade? And is there any chance I could use my existing hardwired mount or does each model use it's own proprietary mount?

 

Thx

BR

Afternoon  BR

 

That is kind of like asking "what color shoes should you wear"?

 

What type of GPS needs do you have? All on-road, off-road, traffic lane assist, (lots of functions), etc?

 

Or do you just need a basic GPS & don't need anything more than just getting there? 

[Chris K]

I upgraded from the 665 to the Zumo XT. Couldn't be happier. Wait till you see the screen brightness compared to the 665.

[Bernie]

I am using the BMW Navigator 6 , but with all it’s problems, it is difficult to recommend it.

If I would but new, I would get the Garmin XT or XT-2. 

You should be able to reuse the mounting location, but you will need to use the new power supply cable and the new base for the new GPS.

I think the XT comes with all required mounting hardware and wires.

PS: Garmin has been running specials every few month for $100.00 of the XT GPS unit.

 

[John Ranalletta]

1 hour ago, Chris K said:

I upgraded from the 665 to the Zumo XT. Couldn't be happier. Wait till you see the screen brightness compared to the 665.

Same here.  A clip from a recent video...

 

[wbw6cos]

I also have the Zumo XT.   The XT2 is 6" screen versus 5.5" on the XT.   On the XT2, the main difference is that  route planning can be done directly on the screen.   It was introduced this year.   I am content with the XT.  I was sold on buying one when Chris and Joel kept bragging about fancy their GPS devices were compared to my Nav VI, which started ghosting (messing up) every once in a while.  I bought the Zumo XT and send the Nav VI back to Garmin and they sent a new one that was sold.

Edited August 28, 2023 by wbw6cos

[BerettaRacer]

Well, sounds like everyone is pretty happy with the XT.

[Bernie]

Just a note about your GPS and FART 23, the routes I have posted should work in your current GPS. Make sure you update it with Garmin Express to the current MapData. You may have to use a SD card to expand your memory.

 

[BerettaRacer]

1 hour ago, Bernie said:

Just a note about your GPS and FART 23, the routes I have posted should work in your current GPS. Make sure you update it with Garmin Express to the current MapData. You may have to use a SD card to expand your memory.

 

Thx Bernie

I've already updated my 665 to latest, and I've downloaded your maps onto my laptop, But I have NOT yet installed the maps onto the 665 or my phone.

[strataj]

I really like the Zumo XT, I did get it at a discount (like Bernie said) for the $200 different I'd go with it but if not the $100 difference I'd go with the new XT-2.  I understand the mapping program is really good along with many other upgrades. The Zumo XT is going to be head and shoulders better then the Zumo 665 so it's a call you have to make. 

[Skywagon]

For those who have replaced the Nav V or Nav VI, dit it work in the BMW cradle on the wetheads and  integrate with the audio system?

[BerettaRacer]

No super good deals, even on fleabay.

Avg $375-400 for used

New xt for $450

New xt2 for $600

[wbw6cos]

I think I heard the voice directions come over it once, but muted that feature.  When I was riding ina group, I always had the Sirius XM going with low volume.  Eventually, I cut it off altogether to signal interruption in the mountains.  

[lkraus]

1 hour ago, BerettaRacer said:

No super good deals, even on fleabay.

Avg $375-400 for used

New xt for $450

New xt2 for $600

Several times a year Garmin offers reduced prices on the XT, both on their web site and through their retailers. The sale price is usually $399. Unfortunately, I don't expect to see another reduction until Black Friday, in late November.

 

My XT has an excellent screen and it works well for following properly planned routes from Basecamp. I've disabled the Explore app because it does not give me the sort of control I'm accustomed to with Basecamp.  I'm not happy with most of the routes the XT creates on its own, or when it is allowed to recalculate a route.  The results will get you to your destination, but often are neither the fastest nor shortest routes.  

 

The features of the newer Tread and XT2 models seem to be aimed at off-road users. Posts I've read at advrider.com and zumouserforums.co.uk seem to indicate some teething problems with their apps and also with the XT2 hardware.  

 

 

[Bernie]

3 hours ago, Skywagon said:

For those who have replaced the Nav V or Nav VI, dit it work in the BMW cradle on the wetheads and  integrate with the audio system?

I have the Nav6 in the factory cradle on my 2018 RT and yes it will give me voice directions through the build in BMW/Alpine radio. I have my bike speakers wired to a Sena SM-10 Bluetooth dongle and it is paired to either my Sena 30S, 50S or Cardo Edge. The music volume from the radio gets reduced during GPS directions announcements. 

[terryofperry]

1 hour ago, wbw6cos said:

I think I heard the voice directions come over it once, but muted that feature.  When I was riding ina group, I always had the Sirius XM going with low volume.  Eventually, I cut it off altogether to signal interruption in the mountains.  

 So that explains how you led Lowndes through Columbus. 

[Skywagon]

Hey Bernie...thanks...My message wasn't clear.  I was wondering if the new Zumo's work in the cradle.

[MikeB60]

6 minutes ago, Skywagon said:

Hey Bernie...thanks...My message wasn't clear.  I was wondering if the new Zumo's work in the cradle.

No but there is an Italian company that makes adapters but you won't have any wonderwheel functionality. 

[Skywagon]

Thanks Mike.  I think the wonderwheel on mine only allows you to go +- on screen size if I remember correctly.  Do you happen to remember the name of the company.  My Nav V had a problem.  Garmin was good and has sent me a refurb, but it isn't working and they are still troubleshooting.  I may need to get something newer.

[wbw6cos]

@Skywagon

 

 

https://www.adapter3dmotorrad.com/en/product/e-nav-xt-rt/

[Skywagon]

Thanks wbw

[Bernie]

3 hours ago, terryofperry said:

 So that explains how you led Lowndes through Columbus. 

Terry, I think @wbw6cos has been doing these sort of mishaps on purpose, thinking that it’s part of the initiation for the BBR club. I know he secretly wants to join this group. 

[greiffster]

22 hours ago, BerettaRacer said:

Thx Bernie

I've already updated my 665 to latest, and I've downloaded your maps onto my laptop, But I have NOT yet installed the maps onto the 665 or my phone.

 

I bet you didn't.....

 

Garmin did a dick move in February or March and sunsetted (is that a word?) several of their models including the Zumo 450, 550, and 665.  So LM or Lifetime Maps is really only for models that they continue to support.  Once they stop "supporting" a model, they block the latest map set from downloading and licensing on your device.  Like I said...dick move.  The last map set available for the 665 is 2023.20.

 

I just picked up a nice used 2014 GS and it had a 665.  I actually don't have a problem with the screen.  It's seems bright enough to me, but maybe I have one with a brighter screen I've heard about?  Don't' know?  But it's on Ebay because of the map set.

 

I moved over my 396 to the new bike.  Yes, it's only a 4.3" screen (like the 665) but it does have the smartlink functionality that was a great improvement to previous models.  I like seeing text messages and phone stuff pushed to the device.  My phone just stays in the tank bag now.  Also, weather radar is pushed from the phone and overlayed on your route with the smartlink.  I dig it.  I should mention that I don't use any audio from the GPS.  I don't like that English lady yelling at me.  

 

I still have the locking cradle on the GS and with a little mod, you can use it to mount a 396.  No locking feature, but it will sit in there and look like it should.  There is a 3D printed gizmo available you can put in there to modify for use with the newer XT or XT2, and I think it locks.  @MikeB60 mentioned that.

 

The XT looks nice and it will be my next one when my old eyes need the bigger screen.  The XT2 would really have to impress me with on-road routing before I would be interested in that feature, or even call it a feature.

 

[dirtrider]

40 minutes ago, greiffster said:

 

I bet you didn't.....

 

Garmin did a dick move in February or March and sunsetted (is that a word?) several of their models including the Zumo 450, 550, and 665.  So LM or Lifetime Maps is really only for models that they continue to support.  Once they stop "supporting" a model, they block the latest map set from downloading and licensing on your device.  Like I said...dick move.  The last map set available for the 665 is 2023.20.

 

I just picked up a nice used 2014 GS and it had a 665.  I actually don't have a problem with the screen.  It's seems bright enough to me, but maybe I have one with a brighter screen I've heard about?  Don't' know?  But it's on Ebay because of the map set.

 

I moved over my 396 to the new bike.  Yes, it's only a 4.3" screen (like the 665) but it does have the smartlink functionality that was a great improvement to previous models.  I like seeing text messages and phone stuff pushed to the device.  My phone just stays in the tank bag now.  Also, weather radar is pushed from the phone and overlayed on your route with the smartlink.  I dig it.  I should mention that I don't use any audio from the GPS.  I don't like that English lady yelling at me.  

 

I still have the locking cradle on the GS and with a little mod, you can use it to mount a 396.  No locking feature, but it will sit in there and look like it should.  There is a 3D printed gizmo available you can put in there to modify for use with the newer XT or XT2, and I think it locks.  @MikeB60 mentioned that.

 

The XT looks nice and it will be my next one when my old eyes need the bigger screen.  The XT2 would really have to impress me with on-road routing before I would be interested in that feature, or even call it a feature.

 

Evening Mike

 

I don't know what is going on with this. I have had some in my riding group telling me that can't update their older Garmin GPS units, but I had no problems installing 2024.10 on my old Garmin Zumo 550. 

 

Possibly is has to do with the way I do it (I'm guessing on this),  I ONLY download & install the new mapping to my "computer ONLY", then use MapSource to install the parts of the U.S. that I typically use.

 

I have a lot of other maps on that GPS  so need to combine maps to get them all installed as that unit only sees GMAP & GMAPsupp. So it needs combined maps under either heading if multi-maps are installed.

[BerettaRacer]

56 minutes ago, greiffster said:

 

I bet you didn't.....

 

Well, I may not, and probably do not have the latest MAPS. I'm just not giving them $$ for a map update. But I did a quick software update two days ago, and now, according to Garmin, I am "up to date".

[greiffster]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

Evening Mike

 

I don't know what is going on with this. I have had some in my riding group telling me that can't update their older Garmin GPS units, but I had no problems installing 2024.10 on my old Garmin Zumo 550. 

 

Possibly is has to do with the way I do it (I'm guessing on this),  I ONLY download & install the new mapping to my "computer ONLY", then use MapSource to install the parts of the U.S. that I typically use.

 

I have a lot of other maps on that GPS  so need to combine maps to get them all installed as that unit only sees GMAP & GMAPsupp. So it needs combined maps under either heading if multi-maps are installed.

Yup. This was the old trick for years as the older units didn’t have the internal memory for the entire NA map. NOW, the 2024.10 is not available when a 665 is plugged up and Garmin Express is searching for updates. I got rid of my 450 last year, so not sure what happens with it or the 550 as of now. But it is on the list….

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=FbLi6qISMH8vJG5A1p9tW5&productID=65203&tab=topics&topFaq=true   (hit the +expand all button to see the list)

 

added....

To me it's a bit shady to promote something as "Lifetime" if you get to choose its lifetime.  It's not like they are simply not "supporting" the older LM units.  Their software is actively blocking the download of the latest maps.  They will offer you 20% discount on an XT once they explain to you how you haven't read the terms and conditions of the Lifetime Maps agreement.  LOL

 

 

 

[Skywagon]

I updated my Zumo 550 over the weekend with the latest. I use Mapsource like DR. I selected the lower 48 but did not have room for Canada, Mexico, or other. 

[dirtrider]

8 hours ago, Skywagon said:

I updated my Zumo 550 over the weekend with the latest. I use Mapsource like DR. I selected the lower 48 but did not have room for Canada, Mexico, or other. 

Morning David

 

If you use MapSource then just put west on the Mississippi on the main Zumo drive (as GMAP) then put the remainder of country & Canada/parts of Mexico, islands that you care about, etc, on the SD card as GMAPsupp. The Zumo will find both the GMAP & GMAPsupp then link them as one continuous map. (seamless to the user) 

 

I usually don't do that as my old Zumo 550 is on a motorcycle that I pretty well only use locally so I typically just put east of the Mississippi & eastern Canada on that unit along with Topo maps (Topo maps are very large), plus a couple of local & surrounding state Custom made maps made from  "Open Street" .

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, greiffster said:

Yup. This was the old trick for years as the older units didn’t have the internal memory for the entire NA map. NOW, the 2024.10 is not available when a 665 is plugged up and Garmin Express is searching for updates. I got rid of my 450 last year, so not sure what happens with it or the 550 as of now. But it is on the list….

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=FbLi6qISMH8vJG5A1p9tW5&productID=65203&tab=topics&topFaq=true   (hit the +expand all button to see the list)

 

added....

To me it's a bit shady to promote something as "Lifetime" if you get to choose its lifetime.  It's not like they are simply not "supporting" the older LM units.  Their software is actively blocking the download of the latest maps.  They will offer you 20% discount on an XT once they explain to you how you haven't read the terms and conditions of the Lifetime Maps agreement.  LOL

 

 

 

Morning Mike

 

The 2024.10 seems to work just fine on my old Zumo 550 so it just needs to get on there. 

 

If you can't download the 2024.10 to your computer using Garmin Express & your old 665 then try downloading the 2024.10 to your computer using a later (accepted GPS device). Then install to your 665 using MapSource or Map Install. This will put a locked version of  2024.10 on your 665. Then TRY going to Garmin & unlocking it (if you have lifetime maps). If THAT won't work (Garmin is blocking it) then you can always Unlock (remove locking) on the 2024.10 map using  3rd party software (I won't post the required programs or procedure on this web site as some will use it to unlock pirated mapping).  My guess is you already know what  is required for this procedure  but if not PM me. 

 

 

[greiffster]

11 hours ago, Skywagon said:

I updated my Zumo 550 over the weekend with the latest. I use Mapsource like DR. I selected the lower 48 but did not have room for Canada, Mexico, or other. 

 

Just for clarity, what is the mapset that you see on the device?

[Skywagon]

DR… thanks for info. My Zumo 550 is not on anything anymore. I carry it with me on trips as a backup. Personally think it is the easiest to use GPS ever made. 
 

Greiffster… will check when I get home later this week. Fishing this week. 

[greiffster]

3 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning Mike

 

The 2024.10 seems to work just fine on my old Zumo 550 so it just needs to get on there. 

 

If you can't download the 2024.10 to your computer using Garmin Express & your old 665 then try downloading the 2024.10 to your computer using a later (accepted GPS device). Then install to your 665 using MapSource or Map Install. This will put a locked version of  2024.10 on your 665. Then TRY going to Garmin & unlocking it (if you have lifetime maps). If THAT won't work (Garmin is blocking it) then you can always Unlock (remove locking) on the 2024.10 map using  3rd party software (I won't post the required programs or procedure on this web site as some will use it to unlock pirated mapping).  My guess is you already know what  is required for this procedure  but if not PM me. 

 

 

 

Yeah, I tried that method since my computer already has the 2024.10 from my 396.  MapInstall or MapSource doesn't recognize the 665 with that map, so it won't install.  I tried brute forcing a copy of the map onto the device, which worked, but the device says it's locked.  Yes, I could probably get it unlocked with the "toolkit", but should I have to?  And technically, according to the agreement, I would be pirating a map for that device.

[dirtrider]

1 minute ago, greiffster said:

 

Yeah, I tried that method since my computer already has the 2024.10 from my 396.  MapInstall or MapSource doesn't recognize the 665 with that map, so it won't install.  I tried brute forcing a copy of the map onto the device, which worked, but the device says it's locked.  Yes, I could probably get it unlocked with the "toolkit", but should I have to?  And technically, according to the agreement, I would be pirating a map for that device.

Mike

 

If you force it in it will be locked, but in the past I have been able to go to the Garmin web site &  unlock it (as long as I have valid lifetime subscription).

 

I'm not sure if the unlocking through Garmin is still valid but worth a try.  

 

You can also put the map on an SD card then unlock the SD card (I have had to do this on my 60CSX in the past). But you will need either a lifetime subscription or a 3rd party key generator then bake that key into the 2024.10. 

 

I do wonder if the Zumo 550 is different as when I bought that a Loooooog Time ago there was no lifetime term limit, I believe that came out later, so possibly your 665 is different.

[lkraus]

If you can no longer update the Garmin maps, Open Street Maps are a good alternative. For the U.S., I've found the versions from https://www.openmapchest.org/maps/united-states/ are packaged well for easy installation and have an appropriate amount of detail for street riding.

 

Other sources are https://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/ and the links at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin/Download.

Some of the sources provide maps that are more complicated to install, harder to update, or have coloring that I feel make them harder to read at a glance on the Zumo, so my preference is for the OpenMapChest versions.

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

15 minutes ago, lkraus said:

If you can no longer update the Garmin maps, Open Street Maps are a good alternative. For the U.S., I've found the versions from https://www.openmapchest.org/maps/united-states/ are packaged well for easy installation and have an appropriate amount of detail for street riding.

 

Other sources are https://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/ and the links at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin/Download.

Some of the sources provide maps that are more complicated to install, harder to update, or have coloring that I feel make them harder to read at a glance on the Zumo, so my preference is for the OpenMapChest versions.

 

 

 

 

Afternoon Larry

 

OpenMapChest  worked very good on the Zumo 450/550 as the contrast is perfect for the older screens. 

 

I quit using  OpenMapChest a few years ago as they weren't using current up to date mapping.  

 

I see they are sort of back in business but unlike the older  OpenMapChest the new doesn't seem to provide the mapping version that it is based on. So I'm not sure if it is just slightly tweaked old mapping or it is based  on a newer Open Street of some sort. 

 

I guess I am going to have to try it again to see, I have a couple of very recent road changes in my area so I will see if  OpenMapChest  shows those. 

 

Thanks for letting us know that OpenMapChest is sort of back (hopefully).

 

 

[lkraus]

Well, they do claim to have weekly updates:

 

 

I'm still trying to pry our old TomTom out of my wife's hands.  It has the original 2009 map, but she always makes it back home.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, lkraus said:

Well, they do claim to have weekly updates:

 

 

I'm still trying to pry our old TomTom out of my wife's hands.  It has the original 2009 map, but she always makes it back home.

Afternoon Larry

 

Yes, they used to do the same thing before but updates were not to the mapping it was built on. Just slight sign tweaks or something small to make it look like a real update. It was actually not really supported for quite a while.  

 

I sure hope they are back in business (as a real map option) as I used to really like OpenMapChest before they quit supporting it with real mapping updates. 

 

My OpenMapChest log-in still works but they want a $20.00 donation for a direct download (the only safe way I will download from them). I donated when I was using it long ago so I am not giving them another $20.00 just to see what mapping it is now based on.

 

I pretty well now use Open Streets & a separate program to make my own mapping tweaks so I get a map that isn't cluttered but shows correct road & bridge closing as well as road sizes & road colors that  personally like. 

 

The Garmin mapping is OK but it is really behind (especially that now they only do 2 per year) so it takes forever for Garmin to update their mapping to current road changes. (there is bridge in my area that has been closed for over a year &  2024.10 still doesn't show it closed & tries to route me over it)

[BerettaRacer]

OK, so I bought the bullet and ordered an XT, new for $449.

With a few extra mounts, ram balls etc, to make swappable with car, tax etc $550

Should be here in time to program, add Bernies maps, and off to FART, lol.

[TSConver]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Larry

 

Yes, they used to do the same thing before but updates were not to the mapping it was built on. Just slight sign tweaks or something small to make it look like a real update. It was actually not really supported for quite a while.  

 

I sure hope they are back in business (as a real map option) as I used to really like OpenMapChest before they quit supporting it with real mapping updates. 

 

My OpenMapChest log-in still works but they want a $20.00 donation for a direct download (the only safe way I will download from them). I donated when I was using it long ago so I am not giving them another $20.00 just to see what mapping it is now based on.

 

I pretty well now use Open Streets & a separate program to make my own mapping tweaks so I get a map that isn't cluttered but shows correct road & bridge closing as well as road sizes & road colors that  personally like. 

 

The Garmin mapping is OK but it is really behind (especially that now they only do 2 per year) so it takes forever for Garmin to update their mapping to current road changes. (there is bridge in my area that has been closed for over a year &  2024.10 still doesn't show it closed & tries to route me over it)

 

I decided to pull it down into basecamp and it has a very recently opened section of road here in Durham on it so the base map cannot be more than a year old if that.

[Bernie]

3 hours ago, BerettaRacer said:

OK, so I bought the bullet and ordered an XT, new for $449.

With a few extra mounts, ram balls etc, to make swappable with car, tax etc $550

Should be here in time to program, add Bernies maps, and off to FART, lol.

Glad to be of help with your problem. 

[randy]

I think you will be happy with the investment of the XT.

[randy]

IF (big if) the XT-2  is black Friday at 499.00, I might sell my XT and move up.  But I was an early adopter of the XT (pretty sure I bought first time it went on sale at 399,99) and it has been flawless.  But I am looking at the XT-2 just for the larger screen and even at selling my XT for 300.00 and getting the XT-2 plus all the necessary power adapters, it might be a 300.00 upgrade cost.  So that would be hard to justify.  We will see.

[BerettaRacer]

I just got my new XT yesterday, still on charger, haven't loaded anything yet.

But for now I'm so pissed at Garmin I'm giving it a 1 star!!!

$499 and they don't include a cover for the mount, or a carry case for the unit.

But what really PISSED ME OFF, there is NO HEADPHONE PLUG!!!!!

I have NO WAY to plug in my sound cancelling headphones, so I can actually hear the gps directions!!

Leaving for FART in a few days, no time to make other setup arrangements, and I've already pulled the old 665 wire harness out of the bike and hard wired in the new unit before I noticed the missing plug.