MV risers on 2005 R1200ST

[Bluboxer]

Good day all,

I purchased a 2005 ST with the MV handlebar risers mounted. I have noticed a few things that may or may not be as they seem. Looking for others input and thoughts on this mod.

1) moving the triple tree down the forks to make room for the handlebars has changed the front to rear posture. The seat seems to be inclined and pushes me towards the tank. This is very uncomfortable and cuts off circulation.

2) by lowering the TT as above, it reduces the front fender to body gap. Does this also change the geometry of the telelever? If my forks are just riding lower on the stanchion,  would this not change my rake angle?

3) how could I reduce the rear ride height to restore the posture without purchasing a shorter rear shock? 

 

I am tempted to remove the riser setup and go back to stock. If this fixes the seat problem then I can go some distance but as it is I am limited to short rides.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Cheers, Alan.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Bluboxer

[dirtrider]

12 minutes ago, Bluboxer said:

Good day all,

I purchased a 2005 ST with the MV handlebar risers mounted. I have noticed a few things that may or may not be as they seem. Looking for others input and thoughts on this mod.

1) moving the triple tree down the forks to make room for the handlebars has changed the front to rear posture. The seat seems to be inclined and pushes me towards the tank. This is very uncomfortable and puts my junk to sleep in short order.

2) by lowering the TT as above, it reduces the front fender to body gap. Does this also change the geometry of the telelever? If my forks are just riding lower on the stanchion,  would this not change my rake angle?

3) how could I reduce the rear ride height to restore the posture without purchasing a shorter rear shock? 

 

I am tempted to remove the riser setup and go back to stock. If this fixes the seat problem then I can go some distance but as it is I am limited to short rides.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Cheers, Alan.

 

 

Evening Alan

 

On lowering the upper cross brace (upper tipple tree)? I can't see how you could do that as the upper cross brace (tipple tree) is attached to the frame with a bearing.  

 

The front ride height is controlled by the external strut & spring (there is nothing inside the fork tubes) 

 

About all you can (easily) do is lower or raise the handlebars on the fork tubes, that changes nothing as far as frontal geometry goes. 

 

On the seat, about all you can do it try different things, like slightly raising the front or lowering the rear slightly but  you can't get much either way.

 

If your rear strut is already in it's lowest position then to lower the rear you will need an aftermarket strut, a lowered strut, or a shorter spring (but a shorter spring will give you bottom-out issues) 

 

You should probably try to get what you need in the seat area if possible. 

[Bluboxer]

Thanks Oracle.

I went back and did my homework. The stance and front to rear posture must be a figment of my imagination.

 

The seat needs to be replaced or refoamed to fit me better.

 

The fork stanchions are actually raised in the upper cross brace to make room for relocating the handlebars above the cross brace (30mm to be exact).

The only thing that concerns me now is the fact that raising the fork stanchions higher above the upper cross brace also raises it within the lower slider tube. Looking at the fiche it shows 2 rather smallish bushings at the top and bottom of the slider. Depending on where the lower bushing is fixed in place this can affect it's ability to guide the stanchion accurately.  The stanchion may actually be riding above the guide bushing entirely and could cause excessive wear to the upper bushing and early seal failure. 

I have not had mine apart but since the seals have started leaking I will dissect the forks during seal replacement and take a look. I will replace the guide bushes also.

 

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

6 hours ago, Bluboxer said:

Thanks Oracle.

I went back and did my homework. The stance and front to rear posture must be a figment of my imagination.

 

The seat needs to be replaced or refoamed to fit me better.

 

The fork stanchions are actually raised in the upper cross brace to make room for relocating the handlebars above the cross brace (30mm to be exact).

The only thing that concerns me now is the fact that raising the fork stanchions higher above the upper cross brace also raises it within the lower slider tube. Looking at the fiche it shows 2 rather smallish bushings at the top and bottom of the slider. Depending on where the lower bushing is fixed in place this can affect it's ability to guide the stanchion accurately.  The stanchion may actually be riding above the guide bushing entirely and could cause excessive wear to the upper bushing and early seal failure. 

I have not had mine apart but since the seals have started leaking I will dissect the forks during seal replacement and take a look. I will replace the guide bushes also.

 

Morning  Bluboxer

 

Yes, that is not ideal to pull the fork tubes out of the lowers farther but a number or ST riders have done that for years with no real issues. 

 

At normal ride height there is still a lot of tube engagement so unless you ride under conditions that allow a lot of fork top-out that (less) tube engagement is not causing any issues. 

 

It would be under hard front braking that places the most bending load on the upper tubes to lower bushings & that almost always compresses the forks more, or at least doesn't extend them under braking. There is a fair amount of anti-dive built into the front geometry. 

 

When you do the fork seals, first put the motorcycle on the center stand, then put some weight on the bike as far back as possible (or jack the front of engine up a little). Then measure the distance from top of upper tube to top of seal (that is pretty close to max extension).    

 

Then once it is apart figure out the bushing distances from the top of seal, then from that you can figure the tube insertion distance at fork top-out. 

 

As long as the bottom of the upper tube (full tube diameter) extends through the bushings at full extension then pulling the tubes up for bar mounting above the tipple tree makes no difference as you haven't actually changed the moment length. 

 

About the only thing that changes is the air volume above the oil level  so with the tubes pulled out farther at nominal ride height you will have slightly less air-spring effect during compression (you probably can't tell the difference while actually riding)

[9Mary7]

When I had my ST, I solved the tank "slide angle" of the seat by placing the front seat adjuster in the high position and the rear in the low position. It worked well for me.

[dirtrider]

11 minutes ago, 9Mary7 said:

When I had my ST, I solved the tank "slide angle" of the seat by placing the front seat adjuster in the high position and the rear in the low position. It worked well for me.

Morning  9Mary7

 

I do that on my 1200RT, front seat adjuster up one notch & rear in the low position. I did move the rear rubber bumper pocket assembly as far back as the bolt holes would allow then chamfer the bumper pockets a little so the seat could be re-installed easier. 

 

If you look closely you can see a slightly larger seat gap at the front  tank surround but not enough to be an issue.   

[pwillikers]

The earliest models of the BMW R1100S, which has essentially the same telelever front suspension as the RT, came from the factory with fork mounted clip-on handlebars in a sporty riding position below the top triple clamp.  To obtain a more comfortable, upright riding posture, many, many R1100S owners raised the fork tubes about 1.5 inches through the top triple clamp and relocated the clip-ons above the top triple clamp.  I don't recall a single issue resulting from this modification ever mentioned on, what used to be, the very active pelicanparts forum dedicated to the R1100S.

 

Unlike telescopic fork technology, raising the fork tubes on a telelever suspension (within reason of course: i.e. proper fork bushing overlap retained as per the above caution from D.R.) does not change the suspension geometry or the front fender to body clearances at all.