R1100S spline issue, again

[bacos]

So, my R1100S blew its splines. Well, not quite, but I checked it before heading out on trip and it was just... bad. I ended up borrowing a bike for the trip. :( 90k miles. I'm not first owner but I have no reason to believe it's been replaced before. So one can argue I got a decent run out of it .

 

It happens that I have another R1100S. It was in an accident. While fixable - most of the damage is bodywork - it's extensive bodywork and, well, for a number of reasons, it's a parts bike. There is of course some risk that the drivetrain is somehow bent or damaged from the accident, but there's no obvious reason to believe so. I do know its history, and it had been treated well otherwise and has had no major service issues.

 

Anyway. I popped the starter and checked, and the splines are basically perfect - 1/8" play at the disc edge, the plate itself is barely worn. 65k miles on it. Admittedly, its riders have been... better? kinder? than I am; I make no bones that I am the best or smoothest rider on the planet. (I will note that it's a European-delivery S, whereas the first bike mentioned is an American-delivery S.)

 

I am assuming that the shaft splines on the first bike are at least fairly worn and thus the shaft has to be replaced. Don't know that, nothing's been taken apart yet.

 

In talking to a local wrench, his take on it is that it would be more cost effective/less-risky to simply swap the transmission than to attempt to fix the original transmission/clutch. More time to split two bikes and swap, but no cost for buying a new shaft or seal or any of that, and his shop time is not dear.

 

It occurs to me that one could indeed swap everything - just buy some new bolts for the clutch housing, swap the entire drivetrain, and call it a day. The rest of the drivetrain has 30k fewer miles on it after all. Don't even bother replacing the clutch plate. This might be a false economy, though? I don't really ride this bike much, so I'm not concerned about getting maximum mileage out of it, my riding days will be over before I wear it out most likely. (I will have the clutch cylinder replaced tho.)

 

My understanding from reading the board is that any alignment issues come from the transmission, not the engine, and therefore this would count as a "permanent" fix to the spline issues. I also am going to have him check the driveshaft u-joint and final drive for play since he's already arms-deep into the bike, though I imagine the new drivetrain is better across the board.

 

Am I missing anything? (I'm being very deliberate about all this because I'm having it all done from 3000 miles away by someone whose primary language is not English, so I need all my instructions to be crystal clear.)

[Jim Moore]

I think your idea is sound. You may want to invest in a new clutch disk with an extended hub, but everything else should bolt right up. 

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, bacos said:

So, my R1100S blew its splines. Well, not quite, but I checked it before heading out on trip and it was just... bad. I ended up borrowing a bike for the trip. :( 90k miles. I'm not first owner but I have no reason to believe it's been replaced before. So one can argue I got a decent run out of it .

 

It happens that I have another R1100S. It was in an accident. While fixable - most of the damage is bodywork - it's extensive bodywork and, well, for a number of reasons, it's a parts bike. There is of course some risk that the drivetrain is somehow bent or damaged from the accident, but there's no obvious reason to believe so. I do know its history, and it had been treated well otherwise and has had no major service issues.

 

Anyway. I popped the starter and checked, and the splines are basically perfect - 1/8" play at the disc edge, the plate itself is barely worn. 65k miles on it. Admittedly, its riders have been... better? kinder? than I am; I make no bones that I am the best or smoothest rider on the planet. (I will note that it's a European-delivery S, whereas the first bike mentioned is an American-delivery S.)

 

I am assuming that the shaft splines on the first bike are at least fairly worn and thus the shaft has to be replaced. Don't know that, nothing's been taken apart yet.

 

In talking to a local wrench, his take on it is that it would be more cost effective/less-risky to simply swap the transmission than to attempt to fix the original transmission/clutch. More time to split two bikes and swap, but no cost for buying a new shaft or seal or any of that, and his shop time is not dear.

 

It occurs to me that one could indeed swap everything - just buy some new bolts for the clutch housing, swap the entire drivetrain, and call it a day. The rest of the drivetrain has 30k fewer miles on it after all. Don't even bother replacing the clutch plate. This might be a false economy, though? I don't really ride this bike much, so I'm not concerned about getting maximum mileage out of it, my riding days will be over before I wear it out most likely. (I will have the clutch cylinder replaced tho.)

 

My understanding from reading the board is that any alignment issues come from the transmission, not the engine, and therefore this would count as a "permanent" fix to the spline issues. I also am going to have him check the driveshaft u-joint and final drive for play since he's already arms-deep into the bike, though I imagine the new drivetrain is better across the board.

 

Am I missing anything? (I'm being very deliberate about all this because I'm having it all done from 3000 miles away by someone whose primary language is not English, so I need all my instructions to be crystal clear.)

Morning bacos

 

Personally I would swap everything over (all the clutch parts & transmission). From what I have measured in the past it seems to be mainly a transmission issue but there is no good way to measure the engine crankshaft location in relation to the alignment pins so I mainly center the transmission on the crankshaft. 

 

If you do swap the entire clutch assembly (recommended) then mark the clutch housing indexing BEFORE removing anything, there should be factory balance marks but on older motorcycles sometimes those are missing or gone.   

[bacos]

cluch assembly to include the flywheel? otherwise the index marks wouldn't matter I wouldn't think.

 

I don't think the person I have doing the work is going to be up to measuring alignment of crank vs input so I guess that much will have to be taken on faith.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, bacos said:

cluch assembly to include the flywheel? otherwise the index marks wouldn't matter I wouldn't think.

 

 

Afternoon Bacos

 

You want to mark the clutch housing cover to the clutch housing (flywheel) & also mark the pressure plate to the clutch cover.

 

If the housing, housing cover, & pressure plate are re-used then ALL should be marked & re-assembled per the marks lining up.

 

If the parts (housing, housing cover, & pressure plate)   from the other motorcycle are used then they should be marked BEFORE disassembly then those marks re-aligned at assembly.  (retain the factory balance) 

 

If any of the clutch parts are kept & some from the other motorcycle are used then just align what you can,  so if you keep (only) the clutch housing (flywheel) you won't be able to use that alignment mark but you can still align the clutch cover & pressure plate to each other.  

 

Or put another way, if you mark the 3 parts (housing, housing cover, & pressure plate) on motorcycle 1 with red paint marks, & mark  the 3 parts (housing, housing cover, & pressure plate) on motorcycle 2 with blue paint 

 

Then at reassembly you will use 3 parts (housing, housing cover, & pressure plate) so no matter how you mix & match the parts you will have either  3 matching color parts or 2 matching color parts so if you have 2 red & 1 blue then just match the the alignment marks on the red, you can't match anything to the blue. (2 of the 3 parts lined up is better then no parts lined up for balance).

 

If by chance you can find the factory balance paint marks then those DO NOT line up, they get spaced (clocked) at 120° offsets.