Lack of Service

[DR Major]

1.   I have a 07 GSA. Local dealer will not service or help with it because it is over15 years old.
   
   I have written BMW and they say it is up to independent dealers.
   
   I find that unacceptable. And other dealers, 4hours+, say, not till riding season is over. Gee, I SE that is 10 months.
   
   Here is a 2nd letter to BMW.... no response yet.
   
   "July 3, 2023
   BMW Motorrad
   
   USA
   
   Service
   
   Again, I write to you, same issue- I cannot find someone to set/install the clutch switch in the hand grip.
   
   I installed and it worked in garage- able to crank, Put in gear etc. However, after an hour ride (w/o stopping motor) it will not allow me to put into gear- the motor stops.
   
   Your local “dealer”, Champion Honda will not offer any help as my 07 GSA is too old.
   
   Does this lend to the idea that BMW motorcycles are only good for 15 years???
   It does to me. ( this is my 4th BMW motorcycle).
   
   I want some help and none of the dealers I’ve contacted will and others are too far as I do not have trailer. Comment is it is too old, only in off season, etc. "
   
   
   This also means big tr0uble for people on long rides/tours with 16 year old+ bikes.

    

    

    

 

[Skywagon]

I doubt BMW NA will come to your rescue. I hope they help you but probably won’t 

 

Post your problem here with pictures and what you have done so far. There is a lot of great talent here and I suspect someone can help you get it going. This place is amazing. 

[RadioFlyer]

Between dealers refusing to service 10 - 15 year old bikes and BMW's decision to discontinue the sale of service manuals the future outlook for the resale value of new BMW motorcycles looks bleak.

 

You can find service info on your '07 on the net including bootleg BMW service manuals so you should be able to either DIY or find an independent tech to give you a hand.

[dirtrider]

On 7/3/2023 at 11:25 AM, DR Major said:

1.   I have a 07 GSA. Local dealer will not service or help with it because it is over15 years old.
   
   I have written BMW and they say it is up to independent dealers.
   
   I find that unacceptable. And other dealers, 4hours+, say, not till riding season is over. Gee, I SE that is 10 months.
   
   Here is a 2nd letter to BMW.... no response yet.
   
   "July 3, 2023
   BMW Motorrad
   
   USA
   
   Service
   
   Again, I write to you, same issue- I cannot find someone to set/install the clutch switch in the hand grip.
   
   I installed and it worked in garage- able to crank, Put in gear etc. However, after an hour ride (w/o stopping motor) it will not allow me to put into gear- the motor stops.
   
   Your local “dealer”, Champion Honda will not offer any help as my 07 GSA is too old.
   
   Does this lend to the idea that BMW motorcycles are only good for 15 years???
   It does to me. ( this is my 4th BMW motorcycle).
   
   I want some help and none of the dealers I’ve contacted will and others are too far as I do not have trailer. Comment is it is too old, only in off season, etc. "
   
   
   This also means big tr0uble for people on long rides/tours with 16 year old+ bikes.

    

Afternoon  DR Major

 

That is too darn bad that it has come to this but you also need to look at it from the BMW dealer side. Their tec's are probably young so all the old tecs that worked on the oilheads & hexheads are gone, or are seniors that get to pick their hours or work assignments.

 

The younger tec's can work on the older BMW's but it isn't time effective for them as they are probably not current on the older bikes so they need to look things up (that takes time), there are probably not many parts in their  stock for the older motorcycles so most things need to be ordered-in (this takes more time), that means motorcycles sitting around, tying up space & lifts, or the need to partially put the motorcycles back together to move them (takes more time & resources) . 

 

For most BMW dealers it is in their best interest to take quick care of their current customers, & customers that are recently sold motorcycles.

 

A number of dealers will only work on the older stuff during the off-season when they have a lot more open time & not many rush service jobs. 

 

It's really no different with Harley dealers, Honda dealers, or other powersport dealers. (try to get 1970's or 80's outboard motor or snowmobile worked on)

 

Your clutch switch is easy so most independent motorcycle shops should be able to easily handle that for you. 

 

[DR Major]

Understand all that... However, it leaves many riders in the cold and w/ no recourse for repair... Unless there is an independent near....

 

AND they decided to keep us in the cold by not selling repair manuals...

 

This clutch switch seems to be sensitive and maybe I haven't learned the touch.

[DR Major]

1 hour ago, Skywagon said:

I doubt BMW NA will come to your rescue. I hope they help you but probably won’t 

 

Post your problem here with pictures and what you have done so far. There is a lot of great talent here and I suspect someone can help you get it going. This place is amazing. 

I need to know how to get this switch set and happy.  My touch does not seem to be working.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, DR Major said:

I need to know how to get this switch set and happy.  My touch does not seem to be working.

Afternoon David

 

Can you explain your problem in more detail, making the switch happy doesn't give up much to go on. 

 

Even if you had the BMW service manual it is lacking for installing that switch, about all the manual says is Remove the old switch, then install the new switch (with a vague picture showing the switch & clutch reservoir assembly).

 

Check you Personal messages on this site I sent you some manual info___  

[DR Major]

Switch is installed.  It worked fine in garage.  After 1+ ride, I got home, stopped the motor and it would not start in gear with clutch lever pulled in.

 

The first switch I installed, I broke in half due to tightening the set screw too tight.

[dirtrider]

11 minutes ago, DR Major said:

Switch is installed.  It worked fine in garage.  After 1+ ride, I got home, stopped the motor and it would not start in gear with clutch lever pulled in.

 

The first switch I installed, I broke in half due to tightening the set screw too tight.

Afternoon David

 

A little more help but still pretty vague. 

 

You need to be our eyes, ears, & fingers as we can't see it or feel it through the internet.

 

Next time it won't start in gear very lightly push the clutch lever forward THEN see if it will start. This will tell us something & possibly what to do about it. 

[DR Major]

good idea to push lever forward....

[TheShat6392]

Hi, David.  I'm sorry you've run into this problem.  

 

I'm just curious:  Do you have access to any "BMW only" dealerships?  I ask because you mentioned "Champion Honda"... I assume they sell a variety of brands besides BMW. 

 

My local BMW dealership also sells various brands and they are incredibly sketchy and a nightmare to deal with.  They also are staffed with teenagers who know nothing about motorcycles let alone the different brands.   However, when I travel 4 hours to a BMW exclusive dealership, it's a much better experience.  

 

Just a thought.  

 

Best, 

 

Nathan 

[DR Major]

Honda & BMW.... Head tech is super smart...but he is strapped by new owner's policy.,

[Ponch]

12 hours ago, DR Major said:

1.   I have a 07 GSA. Local dealer will not service or help with it because it is over15 years old.
   
   I have written BMW and they say it is up to independent dealers.
   
   I find that unacceptable. And other dealers, 4hours+, say, not till riding season is over. Gee, I SE that is 10 months.
   
   Here is a 2nd letter to BMW.... no response yet.
   
   "July 3, 2023
   BMW Motorrad
   
   USA
   
   Service
   
   Again, I write to you, same issue- I cannot find someone to set/install the clutch switch in the hand grip.
   
   I installed and it worked in garage- able to crank, Put in gear etc. However, after an hour ride (w/o stopping motor) it will not allow me to put into gear- the motor stops.
   
   Your local “dealer”, Champion Honda will not offer any help as my 07 GSA is too old.
   
   Does this lend to the idea that BMW motorcycles are only good for 15 years???
   It does to me. ( this is my 4th BMW motorcycle).
   
   I want some help and none of the dealers I’ve contacted will and others are too far as I do not have trailer. Comment is it is too old, only in off season, etc. "
   
   
   This also means big tr0uble for people on long rides/tours with 16 year old+ bikes.

    

    

    

 

 

They want people to buy new. I've heard of a lot of dealers saying older than 10 years. 

[DR Major]

I like mine….PAID FOR, PAID OFF.

 

It also has fewer things to go wrong.  All the new stuff is sweet UNTILL you have to fix it @$150 an hour.  Tough on a retirement.

[9Mary7]

17 minutes ago, DR Major said:

Tough on a retirement

One of the reasons I just bought a low-mile 1989 Honda....only 5820 miles on it and nothing I can't fix........going through all the neglected systems now and will have a sweet rider in about a week.

[dirtrider]

15 hours ago, DR Major said:

Honda & BMW.... Head tech is super smart...but he is strapped by new owner's policy.,

Morning David

 

You might talk directly to that mechanic, see if he will take it as as a side job at his house or your house.  Sounds like either your switch needs to be adjusted, or the clutch lever needs some work/adjustment.   

 

 

[DR Major]

thought about talking to mechanic, but service manager is sitting 15' away and is not likable.  wonder when he is at lunch or vacation.??

[dirtrider]

5 minutes ago, DR Major said:

thought about talking to mechanic, but service manager is sitting 15' away and is not likable.  wonder when he is at lunch or vacation.??

Morning David

 

Try looking up the dealer on line to see if they list their tecs names, if so then try to track the name to a phone number. 

[Ponch]

1 hour ago, DR Major said:

I like mine….PAID FOR, PAID OFF.

 

It also has fewer things to go wrong.  All the new stuff is sweet UNTILL you have to fix it @$150 an hour.  Tough on a retirement.

 

Understood, but the dealers and manufacturers would like us to trade up every 3-4 years and now we see 10 year limits in service. It's not going away. 

[Twisties]

Quote

 I have a 07 GSA. Local dealer will not service or help with it because it is over15 years old.
 

 

Ought to be a crime.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

22 hours ago, dirtrider said:

You might talk directly to that mechanic, see if he will take it as as a side job at his house or your house.  Sounds like either your switch needs to be adjusted, or the clutch lever needs some work/adjustment.   

 

 

Rather than the clutch switch, ISTM the symptom (engine stops when shifting from neutral into gear) is a match for a bad sidestand switch.  If the sidestand is down, you can start/run the bike in neutral, but as soon as you put it in gear, it'll shut the engine down.  If the sidestand switch or its harness wiring is bad, then the ECM thinks the sidestand is always down, and it won't let you start/run the engine, even with the clutch pulled in.

[dirtrider]

46 minutes ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

 

Rather than the clutch switch, ISTM the symptom (engine stops when shifting from neutral into gear) is a match for a bad sidestand switch.  If the sidestand is down, you can start/run the bike in neutral, but as soon as you put it in gear, it'll shut the engine down.  If the sidestand switch or its harness wiring is bad, then the ECM thinks the sidestand is always down, and it won't let you start/run the engine, even with the clutch pulled in.

Morning Mitch

 

Good catch, I saw clutch switch & his lack of dealer support & totally missed the   "I installed and it worked in garage- able to crank, Put in gear etc. However, after an hour ride (w/o stopping motor) it will not allow me to put into gear- the motor stops"

 

Yes, that does sound like a side stand issue, on the older 1200 hexheads that could be the switch itself  but most times it is a loose side stand on the bushing (too much lateral side stand movement). This also tends to show up more after riding for a while (fits David's situation). 

 

This will make finding a tec to repair it even more difficult as the real fix is to work on the pivot bushing (tapered head pivot bolt), or work on the pivot bushing then add a thin washer under the head of the pivot bolt Non-flathead pivot bolt.  

 

That BMW hexhead side stand is a very poor design as once it gets lateral play  from wear & years of use the stand slop allows the side stand to have excess lateral movement (sometimes a LOT of lateral movement). 

 

That excess movement can prevent the side stand switch from functioning (unusual problem) or if enough movement it can actually pop the little retaining clip off of pivot bolt stud that is holding the switch on.  Or can even ruin the side stand switch itself.

 

I'm not sure how BMW dealer repairs this, my guess is a new switch & possibly a new side stand. I typically shorten the bushing (flat head pivot bolt), or shorten the bushing then put a thin washer under the pivot bolt head (non flat head pivot bolt).  This not only repairs the immediate problem but usually prevents it coming back in the future.

 

With the motorcycle on the center stand  put the side stand down, now try to move the side stand foot side to side. If a lot of lateral movement then that is probably the issue.  

 

In some cases a new side stand switch can make the problem go away but if there is excess lateral movement in the stand the problem will return as the new switch becomes worn-in & loose. 

[DR Major]

In this scenario why does replacing the switch make it work?

Will you elaborate on stand switch fix.  I have not checked it yet...  Really hot here so work time is limited...I have low tolerance for 90° and 50%++ humidity..

Is there a side stand article that you like?

[dirtrider]

31 minutes ago, DR Major said:

In this scenario why does replacing the switch make it work?

Will you elaborate on stand switch fix.  I have not checked it yet...  Really hot here so work time is limited...I have low tolerance for 90° and 50%++ humidity..

Is there a side stand article that you like?

Morning David

 

Replacing the switch with a brand new tighter (non worn) switch can allow better switch function as it is new, tight, with no wear on the contacts, or on the rotating parts. 

 

If you have a lot of side stand lateral movement that stand slop can eventually wear the new switch as well as prevent the switch from being in exactly the correct position (the switch floats on the pivot pin stud but is driven by the stand location). The switch has 2 outputs that need to be met as the BMS-K uses a 2nd (checksum) circuit  to verify switch position.

 

One of the issues is there are/were 2 different 1200GS side stand designs. One used a flat head pivot bolt & replaceable bushing inserts (This was, or at seems to be,  used on the early 1200GS bikes). The later 1200GS (at least on the few I have seen) seem to use the 1200RT type full through center bushing with the pivot bolt head being same diameter as the pivot bushing (head sits inside the side stand bushing hole) without replaceable bushing inserts. 

 

  

 

 

 

[DR Major]

What am I to look at?

Is there adjustment to make or replace the bushings/bolt or?

[dirtrider]

30 minutes ago, DR Major said:

What am I to look at?

Is there adjustment to make or replace the bushings/bolt or?

Morning David

 

That is a good question as your picture shows the early flathead bolt side stand but the bolt head looks to be the later bolt. The BMW parts manuals are very vague on this as they sort of show a generic picture with no real model year breakdown.

 

You FIRST need to determine WHAT stand & bolt that your motorcycle has. 

 

One of my problems with this I haven't ever installed a new stand based on the parts manual. I have installed new bushing inserts on a couple but I usually just repair what is on the motorcycle by shortening the bushing, or shortening the bushing then using a thin washer under the bolt head.

 

This is one of those deals that is easy for me to repair but difficult to explain to someone not familiar with the side stand parts.

 

Give me a little time & I will try to dig up some pictures.  

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

32 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

If you have a lot of side stand lateral movement that stand slop can eventually wear the new switch as well as prevent the switch from being in exactly the correct position (the switch floats on the pivot pin stud but is driven by the stand location). The switch has 2 outputs that need to be met as the BMS-K uses a 2nd (checksum) circuit  to verify switch position.

 

Is there a quick-and-easy test to demonstrate whether the switch is the problem, e.g. certain pins on the harness connector that could be jumpered to trick the ECM into thinking the sidestand is always up?  That could be a useful test, because if the switch isn't the problem (e.g. if there's a break in the harness wiring), then replacing the switch would be a fool's errand...

[dirtrider]

19 minutes ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

 

Is there a quick-and-easy test to demonstrate whether the switch is the problem, e.g. certain pins on the harness connector that could be jumpered to trick the ECM into thinking the sidestand is always up?  That could be a useful test, because if the switch isn't the problem (e.g. if there's a break in the harness wiring), then replacing the switch would be a fool's errand...

Morning Mitch

 

Yes, not THAT easy but doable. GS is probably easier as there is better access. Problem is that allows starting in gear with side stand down (quick & easy way to have motorcycle go a couple of feet then fall over, or ride into first L/H turn with stand down.

 

Easier way that usually works is to use your left foot to jiggle/wiggle  the (UP) side stand while trying to start it. Or put motorcycle on center stand then with stand up keep pushing the start button while moving the side stand around and up/down slightly.  

 

Last resort is to jumper wires as the connector is sealed & you don't want to cut the switch pigtail wires unless you have to. The other issue is the darn wires change color between the switch pigtail & the main harness. 

[DR Major]

Drawing is right,,,  attached photos of my side stand.

Also, there is very little movement side ways when the stand is down.  Maybe 1/4"-1/2".

Did not get under to look at the switch....not sure where it is but has be be connected there.  90° and 70% humidity... got to get up early or have a cool day.

 

If the stand switch is small wires, does a new one come with plug? and where is the plug?

 

Repeat again why it might be stand or its switch?

[dirtrider]

27 minutes ago, DR Major said:

Drawing is right,,,  attached photos of my side stand.

Also, there is very little movement side ways when the stand is down.  Maybe 1/4"-1/2".

Did not get under to look at the switch....not sure where it is but has be be connected there.  90° and 70% humidity... got to get up early or have a cool day.

 

If the stand switch is small wires, does a new one come with plug? and where is the plug?

 

Repeat again why it might be stand or its switch?

Afternoon David 

 

With that little bit of movement the stand ears & bushing are probably still OK. 

 

Check your personal messages on this site, I sent you a picture (can't post it here as it is BMW copyright protected)

[DR Major]

I will get  back onto this....have to take some time as my two granddaughter come in for 17 days----so, no quiet here till almost August.

 

I GREATLY APPRECIATE ALL YOUR HELP....!!!

[Steveyacht]

14 hours ago, DR Major said:

I will get  back onto this....have to take some time as my two granddaughter come in for 17 days----so, no quiet here till almost August.

 

I GREATLY APPRECIATE ALL YOUR HELP....!!!

For what it's worth, I did a copy and paste of your post and sent it to the management of the BMW dealer in question. The people I dealt with when I purchased my 1250RT there in June, were very helpful and extremely professional, the new manager was also VERY new to this location.   The lead tech, is not only super knowledgeable on older models, he is the previous owner of the dealership, when I was there for my first service a couple weeks ago, he took some time to talk with me, great guy. The service manager has also been there for quite some time, extremely knowledgeable and all is business, to some this is a turn off, but as one who has managed service departments and motor vehicle dealership, I appreciate his professionalism.  I hope my sending this on to the dealership management helps.  

[DR Major]

hope so.... we will see.  Was the service manager Quincy?  A black man?

[Ponch]

1 hour ago, DR Major said:

hope so.... we will see.  Was the service manager Quincy?  A black man?

 

Does he play trumpet?

[DR Major]

1- BMW just called.  They say all dealers are independent and BMW has no authority.  What a cop out.

2- I got time to look at side stand.

Cranked the while while on center stand in neutral.

Put in gear- died

In neutral, I moved the side stand all over the place while up and down.  Did not stop motor.

 

So, does this leave the stand switch out of the picture?

[dirtrider]

13 minutes ago, DR Major said:

1- BMW just called.  They say all dealers are independent and BMW has no authority.  What a cop out.

2- I got time to look at side stand.

Cranked the while while on center stand in neutral.

Put in gear- died

In neutral, I moved the side stand all over the place while up and down.  Did not stop motor.

 

So, does this leave the stand switch out of the picture?

Morning  DR Major

 

Not conclusive. 

 

I neutral it should not die with the stand up or down so that didn't show you much.

 

You might rerun that test on center stand with transmission in gear (make sure the rear wheel is off the ground though).

 

You might zip tie the clutch lever in during the test as both a safety thing & a noise thing as sometimes the slack in the drive train will allow it to rattle some due to the 2 cylinder harsh power pulses. 

 

___It dies when in gear so you need to test when in gear__

[Ponch]

8 minutes ago, DR Major said:

1- BMW just called.  They say all dealers are independent and BMW has no authority.  What a cop out.

2- I got time to look at side stand.

Cranked the while while on center stand in neutral.

Put in gear- died

In neutral, I moved the side stand all over the place while up and down.  Did not stop motor.

 

So, does this leave the stand switch out of the picture?

 

I would say they are lying to an extent. In order to sell BMW products they are under contract as a franchisee. Contracts have provisions dealers have to abide by. It's not like the just setup a dealership and BMW sends them motorcycles just because they want to sell them with no strings attached. 

[JamesW]

Ten years isn't really that long to keep a car or motorcycle imo but what's my opinion worth?  Answer: Not much.  Maybe with my opinion and 2 bucks I can get a cup of coffee.  The youngest piece of rolling stock I got is my '10 FJR and mighty hard to find a dealer that has ever worked on one but I will say the shop manual is fantastic especially compared to BMW manuals.  The local Yamaha dealer at least told me, without my asking, that they have never had one in their shop when I ordered the shop manual about 7 years ago.  They also said that should I ever need their help they would be required as a Yamaha dealer to assist me.  I thought that was pretty decent and up front of them.  BMW could maybe take lessons but why should they since they aren't doing too bad making a buck these days.  Sad!

[Ponch]

33 minutes ago, JamesW said:

Ten years isn't really that long to keep a car or motorcycle imo but what's my opinion worth?  Answer: Not much.  Maybe with my opinion and 2 bucks I can get a cup of coffee.  The youngest piece of rolling stock I got is my '10 FJR and mighty hard to find a dealer that has ever worked on one but I will say the shop manual is fantastic especially compared to BMW manuals.  The local Yamaha dealer at least told me, without my asking, that they have never had one in their shop when I ordered the shop manual about 7 years ago.  They also said that should I ever need their help they would be required as a Yamaha dealer to assist me.  I thought that was pretty decent and up front of them.  BMW could maybe take lessons but why should they since they aren't doing too bad making a buck these days.  Sad!

That and 2.75 will get you a ride on the subway. 

[DR Major]

Not in gear, does not stop motor with kickstand down or up.

With clutch pulled in the motor will not crank except in neutral.
 
Motor running in gear clutch pulled in, kickstand down, does not shut it off.

 

Motor running clutch pulled in while in gear, if kickstand goes down motor stops.

 

Will not start in gear with the clutch pulled in.

 

If running in gear, full, clutch in kickstand, going down, will stop motor.

 

On side note:  What does shorting out the switch wires do to bike's functions?

 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, DR Major said:

Not in gear, does not stop motor with kickstand down or up.

With clutch pulled in the motor will not crank except in neutral.
 
Motor running in gear clutch pulled in, kickstand down, does not shut it off.

 

Motor running clutch pulled in while in gear, if kickstand goes down motor stops.

 

Will not start in gear with the clutch pulled in.

 

If running in gear, full, clutch in kickstand, going down, will stop motor.

 

On side note:  What does shorting out the switch wires do to bike's functions?

 

Afternoon DR Major

 

Not in gear, does not stop motor with kickstand down or up.--- Normal & correct

With clutch pulled in the motor will not crank except in neutral.--- THIS, points to a bad or misadjusted clutch switch. As long as side stand is UP.
 
Motor running in gear clutch pulled in, kickstand down, does not shut it off.--- This points to the side stand switch not working as it should shut off.

 

Motor running clutch pulled in while in gear, if kickstand goes down motor stops.--- Normal, but this doesn't agree with the sentence just above this one.

 

Will not start in gear with the clutch pulled in.--- Points to bad or misadjusted clutch switch.

 

If running in gear, full, clutch in kickstand, going down, will stop motor.--- Normal

 

On side note:  What does shorting out the switch wires do to bike's functions?--- Makes the computer system think the side stand is up  so should crank & start in gear with clutch in or out. 

 

How about your original concern of engine stalling when putting transmission into gear with side stand up?  Is that still happening?  

[DR Major]

YES. if motor is running and kickstand goes down, = motor quits

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, DR Major said:

YES. if motor is running and kickstand goes down, = motor quits

Afternoon DR Major

 

The one that you really need work with is side stand UP, trans in gear, don't move the stand much just very/very slight wiggles & movements. 

 

I think you have 2 issues, one is likely the side stand switch (but verify) & the other sounds like your new clutch switch is not always acting right (but again verify)>  

[DR Major]

Motor in gear/running on center stand, side stand up.

Moved side stand in/out/up/down but not enough to kill motor.  If stand moved down, motor dies.

 

So, it seems the clutch switch is to blame....I will work on it's adjustment.

Is there a "pin" inside the switch housing that the switch rides on?

I have not see it, but need to light it up better.?

[dirtrider]

3 hours ago, DR Major said:

Motor in gear/running on center stand, side stand up.

Moved side stand in/out/up/down but not enough to kill motor.  If stand moved down, motor dies.

 

So, it seems the clutch switch is to blame....I will work on it's adjustment.

Is there a "pin" inside the switch housing that the switch rides on?

I have not see it, but need to light it up better.?

Afternoon David

 

The clutch switch is one of your problems but that effects engine starting while in gear but that shouldn't be the reason that the engine stalls when putting the trans INTO gear from neutral.   

 

You will have to use a strong light to look in the lever pocket while moving the lever to see exactly how the clutch switch contacts the lever.