Electricity Weight?

[Sonor]

Can anyone direct me to a table or equation that states how much weight an electric cable gains with power running through it verses no power? My belief is that since electrons have mass, they must have weight. I realize it would change pending the size of the cable but I am curious. 

[lkraus]

An electron leaves one end of the cable as another comes into the other end.  The cable weight does not change.

 

One electron weighs 9.1093837015 × 10⁻³¹ kg

 

I was inclined to think that the Bard was full of it when stating that higher heat causes weight gain, but energy and mass are equivalent in a relativistic sense.  The mass change is essentially theoretical on a human scale.

[Sonor]

Thank you guys - I really appreciate the help on this one. (good thing I didn't bet on it )

[WRP]

Not a theorist or physics prof here, just an old electrician. I was once told electrical flow was more like a 'Newton's Cradle' than water engorging and flowing thru a hose. No gain of mass, just transference of energy. fwiw

[Rougarou]

 

[ESokoloff]

Geez if it were true my Zero motorcycle would weigh zero lb with a zero % of charge

[Paul De]

I agree with no change in mass as the energy applied is transmitted by a wire.  Electrons themselves move slow and not far, but can move energy.  You don’t specify, but I’ll assume it is AC electricity and then at best the electrons wiggle back and forth.  The energy actually doesn’t even travel in the wire, but in the area around the wire, by electromagnetic  transmission.  

If you think about it the wire that is connected to a house isn’t even continuous back to the generator as there are a number of gaps in the many transformer windings along the way and it is induction that gets the energy to the end user.

 

[ESokoloff]

5 hours ago, Paul De said:

The energy actually doesn’t even travel in the wire, but in the area around the wire, by electromagnetic  transmission.  

Ummmm, Its my understanding that the EMF (Electromagnetic Force) is as of a result of electrons flowing (current) on the SURFACE of the conductor (wire). 
Right hand rule

 

 

[RogerC60]

There is an EMF associated with DC current as well. If I remember my Fields class correctly, the depth of the current (i.e., the movement of electrons) in a wire depends on the frequency of the current. At DC (0 Hz), the current is evenly distributed through the cross-sectional area of the wire. At microwave frequencies, the current exists only in a very thin band at the surface of the conductor. That's why they can make waveguide from pretty much any old metal and just electroplate the inner surface with a very thin conductive layer.

[Paul De]

4 hours ago, ESokoloff said:

Ummmm, Its my understanding that the EMF (Electromagnetic Force) is as of a result of electrons flowing (current) on the SURFACE of the conductor (wire). 
Right hand rule

 

 

If that is true then how do the electrons of the aluminum or copper wire jump the gaps from the primary to secondary windings of the several step up and step down transformers between the source and end user of electrical power.  There is no actual continuous connection between power plant and home.  Only induction makes it all work.

 

While electrons may be shared in a matrix of copper or aluminum nuclei,  an individual electron’s “travel” is very slow and limited to a centimeter or so.

 

I had an interesting experience with this on my recent pole barn upgrade project.  I had two branch circuits where the only practical way get both branches to their asignwd outlets was to run the two brach wires parallel in close proximity for about 20 feet.  When one of the branches was energized and the other not, I was able to measure inductive  voltage, sometimes called  ghost voltage, of around 10 millivolts in the non-energized branch.  
 

Thanks to Nikola Tesla’s genius we are able to transmit large amounts of electrical power across hundreds and thousands of miles efficiently by adopting the A/C format…much to Edison’s  chagrin.

[ESokoloff]

I take issue with

“The energy actually doesn’t even travel in the wire, but in the area around the wire, by electromagnetic  transmission”

Again, it’s my understanding that electrons flow on the “skin” of the conductor but it sounds like your confusing this with EMF. “area around the wire, by electromagnetic  transmission.”

 

EMF is directly proportional to current.

No current, no EMF.

 

“When one of the branches was energized and the other not, I was able to measure inductive  voltage, sometimes called  ghost voltage, of around 10 millivolts in the non-energized branch.”

If you measure the voltage of the dead branch when the live branch carries no load (0 amps of current) I’m guessing you’ll find 0 volts. 
The higher the amp draw (current) on the active branch, the higher it’s EMF thus the greater induction of energy into the de-energized branch resulting in a higher induced voltage. 
 

 

[ESokoloff]

37 minutes ago, Paul De said:

Thanks to Nikola Tesla’s genius we are able to transmit large amounts of electrical power across hundreds and thousands of miles efficiently by adopting the A/C format…much to Edison’s  chagrin.

You’ll find THIS interesting 

[Paul De]

There is truth in both points from what I read here.  Best I can figure is one begets the other, I am going on the assumption is that the energy is already applied and how is that energy propagated when individual electrons themselves don't move fast or far.  For sure if the electrons share energy and maybe should not be considered as discreet particles in the transmission of electricity.  This is a pretty good explanation, it seems both a shared net movement (vibration) of the metals electron cloud is needed to create the current, which if I read this right the energy is then propagated by the EMF.  FWI worth physics wasn't my best subject and it was 40 years ago when I had my butt in that lecture hall, so I wouldn't bet the farm on what I know about electricity....haha, I barely know enough the shut off the breaker before installing a new light fixture

 

https://van.physics.illinois.edu/ask/listing/3341

 

 

[Paul De]

13 minutes ago, ESokoloff said:

You’ll find THIS interesting 

I've heard something about this, but it was in the context of connecting a number of mini community grids, not as a major supply source.  Seems poor old Edison needed some high tech inverter technology to beat out Tesla and Westinghouse

[ESokoloff]

Per the above link, an advantage of DC is that DC penetrates the entire conductor whereas AC only utilizes the skin and this causes power loss due to heat. 

 

 

Mercury arc-valves made this possible & are very interesting.