Clowns oil change...

[King Herald]

I did oil changes on motor, gearbox and rear drive yesterday. I've done them many times before, so no problem....

 

First thing, I usually buy my 20/50 in 4 litre bottle/can, ( virtually 4 quarts) and pour most of it in before slowly adding it a bit at a time to get to the level mark.  4 litres is a touch too much. 

 

I did this yesterday, but noticed the whole sight glass was covered well before it should have been.

Then I realised my oil was in a 5 litre can. 

So, clean pan underneath, take out drain plug, drop some oil.... and drop the drain plug. So one finger over the drain hole and trying to find the drain plug with the other hand, oil everywhere. 

Finally got it sorted, start topping up the oil again. Run motor, leave on side stand for 10 minutes, while I clean up some of the mess I made, put on centre stand for ten, check oil, add a little. 

 

Go for a ride out, nasty vibration at 3600rpm, usually means oil level is too high. Stopped for a drink at a cafe with some friends, and check oil again, same procedure. It's right at the top of the sight glass...

 

Got to drain some more out today. 

 

I don't think I've ever made such a farce out of an oil change before in 50 years of wrenching on engines. 

Anybody have any idea why even just a 1/4" too much oil can cause the vibes? 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, King Herald said:

I did oil changes on motor, gearbox and rear drive yesterday. I've done them many times before, so no problem....

 

First thing, I usually buy my 20/50 in 4 litre bottle/can, ( virtually 4 quarts) and pour most of it in before slowly adding it a bit at a time to get to the level mark.  4 litres is a touch too much. 

 

I did this yesterday, but noticed the whole sight glass was covered well before it should have been.

Then I realised my oil was in a 5 litre can. 

So, clean pan underneath, take out drain plug, drop some oil.... and drop the drain plug. So one finger over the drain hole and trying to find the drain plug with the other hand, oil everywhere. 

Finally got it sorted, start topping up the oil again. Run motor, leave on side stand for 10 minutes, while I clean up some of the mess I made, put on centre stand for ten, check oil, add a little. 

 

Go for a ride out, nasty vibration at 3600rpm, usually means oil level is too high. Stopped for a drink at a cafe with some friends, and check oil again, same procedure. It's right at the top of the sight glass...

 

Got to drain some more out today. 

 

I don't think I've ever made such a farce out of an oil change before in 50 years of wrenching on engines. 

Anybody have any idea why even just a 1/4" too much oil can cause the vibes? 

Morning King Herald

 

Anybody have any idea why even just a 1/4" too much oil can cause the vibes? -- It shouldn't as even over-full it is still WAY below the spinning crankshaft & connecting rods. The crankshaft is pretty high in the crankcase. 

 

A high oil level does lower the internal crankcase air volume a little but at the top of (or just above top of) sight glass that is so little that I can't see it causing a vibration. 

 

Some have reported more 1100/1150 boxer engine vibration with a higher oil level but I haven't seen that myself. 

 

A couple of things come to mind if it is happening, one is the possibility that the cam chains are tracking in the higher oil therefore causing more engine load.  Or, my personal belief is that it is usually reported happening right after an oil change so that is when the new engine oil is the thickest as it hasn't sheared down yet.   

 

Or another possibility is that the normal 3600-4200 rpm boxer engine vibration (they ALL have that) is just more noticed & paid attention to after there is a reason to pay attention, like after a crankcase over-fill. Most riders just don't notice that basic boxer buzz until there is a reason to pay attention to it for some reason.  

 

 

 

 

[Hosstage]

2 hours ago, King Herald said:

I did oil changes on motor, gearbox and rear drive yesterday. I've done them many times before, so no problem....

 

First thing, I usually buy my 20/50 in 4 litre bottle/can, ( virtually 4 quarts) and pour most of it in before slowly adding it a bit at a time to get to the level mark.  4 litres is a touch too much. 

 

I did this yesterday, but noticed the whole sight glass was covered well before it should have been.

Then I realised my oil was in a 5 litre can. 

So, clean pan underneath, take out drain plug, drop some oil.... and drop the drain plug. So one finger over the drain hole and trying to find the drain plug with the other hand, oil everywhere. 

Finally got it sorted, start topping up the oil again. Run motor, leave on side stand for 10 minutes, while I clean up some of the mess I made, put on centre stand for ten, check oil, add a little. 

 

Go for a ride out, nasty vibration at 3600rpm, usually means oil level is too high. Stopped for a drink at a cafe with some friends, and check oil again, same procedure. It's right at the top of the sight glass...

 

Got to drain some more out today. 

 

I don't think I've ever made such a farce out of an oil change before in 50 years of wrenching on engines. 

Anybody have any idea why even just a 1/4" too much oil can cause the vibes? 

Oh yes, I've made a mess of a simple oil change. Mad at myself and laughing at my ineptness all at the same time. Of course this was going to be a quick change just before a trip. At least I didn't strip the drain plug.

The other was just a quick top off of oil before meeting up with friends, the bottle slips out of my hands and oil goes everywhere. 20 minutes of clean up for something that should have taken one minute.

[King Herald]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

Morning King Herald

 

Anybody have any idea why even just a 1/4" too much oil can cause the vibes? -- It shouldn't as even over-full it is still WAY below the spinning crankshaft & connecting rods. The crankshaft is pretty high in the crankcase. 

 

A high oil level does lower the internal crankcase air volume a little but at the top of (or just above top of) sight glass that is so little that I can't see it causing a vibration. 

 

Some have reported more 1100/1150 boxer engine vibration with a higher oil level but I haven't seen that myself. 

 

A couple of things come to mind if it is happening, one is the possibility that the cam chains are tracking in the higher oil therefore causing more engine load.  Or, my personal belief is that it is usually reported happening right after an oil change so that is when the new engine oil is the thickest as it hasn't sheared down yet.   

 

Or another possibility is that the normal 3600-4200 rpm boxer engine vibration (they ALL have that) is just more noticed & paid attention to after there is a reason to pay attention, like after a crankcase over-fill. Most riders just don't notice that basic boxer buzz until there is a reason to pay attention to it for some reason.  

 

 

 

 

Morning DR,

I seriously find it hard to believe such a tiny amount of oil could cause the vibes, but I've topped it up a little high several times over the years and not even thought about it once riding, until I get out of town and the rpm rises to 3500, then I'll realise I've done it again....

 

I asked this same question on a U.K. forum and several other people came up with the same response. 

 

The reduced air volume theory is all I can think of myself, but it sounds totally implausible. 

 

I've just been and drained it down to the correct level, time to test ride, once the rain stops. 

[King Herald]

40 minutes ago, Hosstage said:

Oh yes, I've made a mess of a simple oil change. Mad at myself and laughing at my ineptness all at the same time. Of course this was going to be a quick change just before a trip. At least I didn't strip the drain plug.

The other was just a quick top off of oil before meeting up with friends, the bottle slips out of my hands and oil goes everywhere. 20 minutes of clean up for something that should have taken one minute.

 

I once managed a completely mess free oil change, proudly put all the tools away, then went to pour the dirty oil tray contents into a can, for disposal, and managed to knock the can over whilst balancing a funnel in it, and also drop the full oil tray in the process.

 

It's surprising how big a puddle 4 quarts of oil makes on a concrete floor. 

[Hosstage]

It makes one hell of a mess, that's for sure.

Not that I would know.......

[RK Ryder]

It has been my practice to only add 3.25 ltres at an oil change, take it for ride, return home, let the bike sit for five minutes, check the level and add as necessary. Taking into account that between the top and bottom, of the sight glass is 12 ounces, adding the correct amount is easy to calculate.

 

The reason I low fill is because whenever I put the recommended 3.75 litres in, the sight glass, in my case, always shows an over fill. 

[Miguel!]

R1100RT here. I add exactly 4 quarts (not liters) when changing oil with a fresh filter. After running for a few minutes, I put it on the center stand and I let the oil settle. The level invariably settles in the middle of the site glass, just where I want it. 

 

I have a 1 liter Motel bottle with a flexible spout that makes it easy to the oil get into the filler tube. It is marked on one side with ounces so I refill it four times to 32 ounces. I've never spilt any on the engine or the floor. It's a bit of a PITA but I've never found a funnel that works well.  

 

@RK Ryder: A knowledgeable oilhead site member who  helped me with some phone support just after getting my bike,  told me the volume  of oil between the bottom and top of the sight glass is 8 ounces. I don't really know what the right answer is but I try to keep my oil level in the center of the site glass. I check the level after most every ride and add a bit to bring it up to center on the sight glass if necessary. That way I know my oil level is always correct the next time I get on the bike.

[dirtrider]

7 hours ago, Miguel! said:

R1100RT here. I add exactly 4 quarts (not liters) when changing oil with a fresh filter. After running for a few minutes, I put it on the center stand and I let the oil settle. The level invariably settles in the middle of the site glass, just where I want it. 

 

I have a 1 liter Motel bottle with a flexible spout that makes it easy to the oil get into the filler tube. It is marked on one side with ounces so I refill it four times to 32 ounces. I've never spilt any on the engine or the floor. It's a bit of a PITA but I've never found a funnel that works well.  

 

@RK Ryder: A knowledgeable oilhead site member who  helped me with some phone support just after getting my bike,  told me the volume  of oil between the bottom and top of the sight glass is 8 ounces. I don't really know what the right answer is but I try to keep my oil level in the center of the site glass. I check the level after most every ride and add a bit to bring it up to center on the sight glass if necessary. That way I know my oil level is always correct the next time I get on the bike.

Morning ___

 

On the BMW 1100/1150 I try to drain the oil oil overnight if time allows (this can make a difference on re-fill amount). After an all night drain & with a new filter I just dump in 4 quarts, put the cap on then ride for about 2000 miles or so, then I check the level in the sight glass 10 minutes after a ride (hot engine), no side stand first other then using it to dismount the motorcycle. BMW cautions that due to the alloy engine case expansion the engine should be hot at oil level checking time. Running in place probably doesn't achieve that temperature. 

 

The BMW 1100 manual says .5 liters (16.9 ounces) top of sight glass to bottom but I haven't ever verified that, I have seen about 8 ounces  bottom of sight glass to center of dot. 

 

 

 

 

[JamesW]

I used to own an '04 R1150RT and as I remember it had a thermostat used with the oil cooler and to do a complete oil change I had to go for a ride and warm up the oil so that the thermostat is open to allow oil to flow from the cooler.  Then I would return home and immediately put the bike on the side stand for 15 minutes to allow the oil in the cooler to drain through the open thermostat to the crank case then go to the center stand and drain the oil.  This would result in always getting the 4 quarts of used oil completely removed and refilled with always the same quantity of oil that being very close to 4 quarts with only about a half inch remaining in the 4th quart container.  Not necessary to do this procedure on my '93 R1100RS because it doesn't have an oil thermostat.  Simple is always better, imo.

 

Simple like my new Speidel wrist watch ($15) that only gives me the time of day,  NO whistles and bells!  That's why there are callendars.

[The Fabricator]

High oil level causing oil mist to accumulate in air filter housing, contaminating air filter causing rich running?

[dirtrider]

4 hours ago, The Fabricator said:

High oil level causing oil mist to accumulate in air filter housing, contaminating air filter causing rich running?

Afternoon  Fabricator

 

I guess I don't understand either of those.

 

With an operational o2 sensor they don't run any richer with or without a contaminated air filter element as the o2 sensor feedback just trims the fueling back to normal. But even if it did somehow run richer that makes the BMW 2 cylinder boxer engines run better & smoother not worse.  

 

On the high oil level causing oil mist?  That one I don't understand either unless WAY/WAY overfilled enough that the crankshaft counter weights or the connecting rods are contacting the high oil (way over the top of sight glass). But even if it did then how is that mist getting into the air filter element as the 1100/1150 crankcase  vents through a timed crankshaft passage then up through a labyrinth so any mist in the crankcase would not still be a mist after it enters the vent system, then into the  air box lower chamber.

 

But even if it did that would settle out in the lower air box chamber & not into the air filter element. 

 

I have drained motor oil from plenty of BMW 1100/1150 lower air box's (using the drain valve)  & not a one had an oil fouled air filter element that would cause rich running. 

 

Can you explain why the riders that have noticed the high oil level vibration issue have that vibration go back to a normal vibration when they let a little oil out & lower the oil level back to center of sight glass?

Does that lowering the oil level back to center of sight glass mysteriously clean the air filter element?  

  

 

[The Fabricator]

Oh right, the oxygen sensor! Fuel injection! Computer compensates. [I know that. Just forgot it.]

Oil in air box not high enough to contaminate filter.  Well, ok.  Was not sure on that.

Vibration from high oil level?  Have not experienced that on my 1150.  I do know it starts vibrating more over 3500 rpm's.  I generally keep mine at 3500 where  it is very smooth. And the fuel consumption is still acceptable.

Have I over filled?  Probably.  It took a while to figure out the oil level routine.

It could be psychosomatic.  Related to 'over-fill phobia'.  It vibrates more than normal.  Shouldn't have over filled it!

I do know riding with out ear plugs induces in me significant anxiety related to engine clatter and 'side of the road stranding/expensive repair' dread.

I deal with that by ear plugs.

So far, so good.

[Hosstage]

After riding a while with earplugs, don't listen to the motor idle, high anxiety will set in quickly as the motor sounds like it has no oil pressure, clicking, ticking, and clattering!

[King Herald]

12 hours ago, Hosstage said:

After riding a while with earplugs, don't listen to the motor idle, high anxiety will set in quickly as the motor sounds like it has no oil pressure, clicking, ticking, and clattering!

 

I definitively concur with that. Mind you, one time I popped out for a short 2 mile ride sans ear plugs, and noticed my front brake was making an awful, loud, high pitched squeal when applied. I'd never noticed that wearing plugs for every ride. I'm sure passers-by had though whenever I was riding in built up areas......

 

 

[The Fabricator]

On 5/11/2023 at 2:24 PM, Hosstage said:

After riding a while with earplugs, don't listen to the motor idle, high anxiety will set in quickly as the motor sounds like it has no oil pressure, clicking, ticking, and clattering!

EXACTLY!   

I don't need a pile-on for my high anxiety regarding age related degeneration, wife strife, and community disintegration.

 

On 5/12/2023 at 2:28 AM, King Herald said:

 

I definitively concur with that. Mind you, one time I popped out for a short 2 mile ride sans ear plugs, and noticed my front brake was making an awful, loud, high pitched squeal when applied. I'd never noticed that wearing plugs for every ride. I'm sure passers-by had though whenever I was riding in built up areas......

My wife has commented the brakes squeal.  Fortunately, the ear plugs block her out and my tinnitus blocks the squeal.

A win-win.

[gmcjetpilot]

I never did that but I COULD.... Ha ha. I just changed all the juices and filters after bike sat for years. So I had to go slow and read and think about it. I did it in a batch, draining all fluids first, filter removal. I was so paranoid I would start the engine I tapped over the the ignition. Then I put all the drains back and filter, then I torqued them Then I did the fills (see note below).

 

NOTE Beemer Bone Yard sells a service kit which I bought. It was great, came with all new crush washers, filters, lubricants, O-ring, spark plugs....

 

Engine Oil Jug is  the exact oil capacity 3.75L (4 Qt), the Spec w/ filter change. I held back a little and sure enough after running it was right to top of sight window after initial start and run. If I put the whole jug in it would have been over filled. So the engine took a tad less than spec or jug package had a tad more oil?

 

Transmission and Final drive gear lube is Liqui Moly 75-90 synthetic, which now comes in 1.0L (1.06 qt) or one liter. That is the exact spec for transmission capacity. However after drain and refill it was a bit under the fill level (bottom of fill hole. Not a lot lower but not full full.  I did not lose a drop.  I did let it  drain overnight. I doubt that did it. The small difference i I doubt is critical, but I am going to correct it.

 

Rear Rear Drive Beemer Bone Yard provides a smaller bottle they self package with the proper amount 0.23L (0.24qt), so you don't have to buy 2 Liters. Apparently Liqui Moly had a larger bottle that could do Trans and Final Drive... Again like the transmission the final is almost fills to bottom of fill port but a tad low.  To Beemer Bone Yard they are sending me a little more. It is very likely it would make zero difference. It is not a fill by a volume thing but a visual thing to bottom of fill hole.