2004 R1150RT engine cut out while riding and will not start

[Keith S]

Other then replacing the final drive and the abs module I've had no problems with this bike in 125K km.

The engine cut out like the kill switch had been turned on which it wasn't.

The in gear and side stand switches seem to work fine.

 

Ive read a few posts here on this topic and have done the following

-after multiple start attempts there is no raw gas smell from the exhaust.

-pulled fuse #5 for 30 mins and no start

-bought a Noid light and got flashing on both injectors while turning over.

-have spark on both upper spark plugs

-with first stop of the key I can hear the normal clicking and a short whine from the abs module.

 

I read that you should be able to hear the fuel pump cycle when you turn the key. I've never really paid attention to identify all the startup sounds but I can not hear any noise or whine from the fuel tank with the key turned on just the abs module.

Would it make sense to pull out the fuel pump/filter and check hoses etc?

How do you test the fuel pump relay?

 

Thanks folks

Keith

[RogerC60]

Check fuse 6 (fuel pump). This fuse failed on my '03 RT and caused the same problem you are describing. If it's not a bad fuse, try swapping the horn relay and fuel pump relay. (But first be sure your horn works, meaning that relay is good.) You need to hear the fuel pump prime when you turn in the key.

[Keith S]

Metered fuse 6 and good. Metered a new fuse and tried it with the same result. I swapped relay 5 and 6, the horn still worked and same result no start or fuel pump noise.

Excellent ideas thanks!

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, Keith S said:

Other then replacing the final drive and the abs module I've had no problems with this bike in 125K km.

The engine cut out like the kill switch had been turned on which it wasn't.

The in gear and side stand switches seem to work fine.

 

Ive read a few posts here on this topic and have done the following

-after multiple start attempts there is no raw gas smell from the exhaust.

-pulled fuse #5 for 30 mins and no start

-bought a Noid light and got flashing on both injectors while turning over.

-have spark on both upper spark plugs

-with first stop of the key I can hear the normal clicking and a short whine from the abs module.

 

I read that you should be able to hear the fuel pump cycle when you turn the key. I've never really paid attention to identify all the startup sounds but I can not hear any noise or whine from the fuel tank with the key turned on just the abs module.

Would it make sense to pull out the fuel pump/filter and check hoses etc?

How do you test the fuel pump relay?

 

Thanks folks

Keith

Morning Keith

 

-bought a Noid light and got flashing on both injectors while turning over.-- This already tested a number of things for you. If the NOID light was flashing while cranking then your fuse #6 is OK & the fuel pump relay is working OK. If a blown fuse #6 or a failed fuel pump relay then your NOID light would not be able to flash.

 

You flashing NOID light shows injector command but your lack of fuel smell on the spark plugs shows no fuel being sprayed. 

 

Probably the next (logical)  place to look is to verify the fuel line quick disconnects as FULLY snapped together. The quick disconnects have internal  valves that shut the fuel flow off until FULLY snapped together. 

 

If the QD's are OK then next move would be to open the fuel filler cap, then put an ear to the opening, then listen closely as you turn the key to on (do not start). You need to hear the fuel pump quickly run (it only runs for about 2 seconds at key on) so listen quickly. To re-do the pump run test turn the key to off, then wait a while before retesting.

 

If you hear the pump run (or even if you don't) then next you need to do a fuel return hose fuel flow test. 

 

To do that, unplug the fuel return hose quick disconnect, then on the return hose coming from the REAR point the quick disconnect into a container, then hold the internal check valve open with something. Then have someone turn the key on for you. If the pump is working & the tank internal hoses are OK  you should get a pencil sixed stream of fuel out of that rear return hose for about 2 seconds. The upper hose is the fuel return hose.

 

If no fuel flow but the pump runs for 2 seconds at key-on then suspect a split, or a hole, in the in-tank "U" shaped high pressure hose. Or an internal hose has come loose from it's connection. 

 

Does your dash RID fuel gauge look like it is working  & is somewhat accurate (yes/no), if not reading correctly then that can tell us something. If it doesn't seem to read then make sure the fuel tank pump wire pigtail is fully plugged into the main wire harness. 

[Keith S]

•  

6 hours ago, dirtrider said:

• Morning Keith
•  
• -bought a Noid light and got flashing on both injectors while turning over.-- This already tested a number of things for you. If the NOID light was flashing while cranking then your fuse #6 is OK & the fuel pump relay is working OK. If a blown fuse #6 or a failed fuel pump relay then your NOID light would not be able to flash.
•  
• You flashing NOID light shows injector command but your lack of fuel smell on the spark plugs shows no fuel being sprayed. 
•  
• Probably the next (logical)  place to look is to verify the fuel line quick disconnects as FULLY snapped together. The quick disconnects have internal  valves that shut the fuel flow off until FULLY snapped together. 
•  
• If the QD's are OK then next move would be to open the fuel filler cap, then put an ear to the opening, then listen closely as you turn the key to on (do not start). You need to hear the fuel pump quickly run (it only runs for about 2 seconds at key on) so listen quickly. To re-do the pump run test turn the key to off, then wait a while before retesting.
•  
• If you hear the pump run (or even if you don't) then next you need to do a fuel return hose fuel flow test. 
•  
• To do that, unplug the fuel return hose quick disconnect, then on the return hose coming from the REAR point the quick disconnect into a container, then hold the internal check valve open with something. Then have someone turn the key on for you. If the pump is working & the tank internal hoses are OK  you should get a pencil sixed stream of fuel out of that rear return hose for about 2 seconds. The upper hose is the fuel return hose.
•  
• If no fuel flow but the pump runs for 2 seconds at key-on then suspect a split, or a hole, in the in-tank "U" shaped high pressure hose. Or an internal hose has come loose from it's connection. 
•  
• Does your dash RID fuel gauge look like it is working  & is somewhat accurate (yes/no), if not reading correctly then that can tell us something. If it doesn't seem to read then make sure the fuel tank pump wire pigtail is fully plugged into the main wire harness. 

-fuel line quick disconnects as FULLY snapped together   YES

-You need to hear the fuel pump quickly run   NO

-do a fuel return hose fuel flow test, The upper hose is the fuel return hose  NO FUEL FLOW

-Does your dash RID fuel gauge look like it is working   YES and the tachometer is not acting up

I checked voltage on the male prong side of the tank pig tail going from left (brown) to right

Key ON but not start

Brown 0v (ground?)

Green 12.5 volt short pulse (really happy to see that)

Brown/white stripe (thin) 7.8v constant

Blue/white stripe (thin) 12.5v constant

I guess it looks like the problem is from the female side of the tank pigtail to the fuel pump (inclusive)?

Recommendations for replacement pump (assembly?), hose and clamps  would be greatly appreciated. I have the ability to re-plumb the tubing and also make a stainless steel "U" tube.

Your help here is GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!

Keith

 

[dirtrider]

Quote

 

-fuel line quick disconnects as FULLY snapped together   YES

-You need to hear the fuel pump quickly run   NO

-do a fuel return hose fuel flow test, The upper hose is the fuel return hose  NO FUEL FLOW

-Does your dash RID fuel gauge look like it is working   YES and the tachometer is not acting up

I checked voltage on the male prong side of the tank pig tail going from left (brown) to right

Key ON but not start

Brown 0v (ground?)

Green 12.5 volt short pulse (really happy to see that)

Brown/white stripe (thin) 7.8v constant

Blue/white stripe (thin) 12.5v constant

I guess it looks like the problem is from the female side of the tank pigtail to the fuel pump (inclusive)?

Recommendations for replacement pump (assembly?), hose and clamps  would be greatly appreciated. I have the ability to re-plumb the tubing and also make a stainless steel "U" tube.

Your help here is GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!

 

Afternoon Keith

 

Sounds like you need to remove the fuel tank & take look (or measure). Might be a pump problem, or a pump pass-through plate problem (I have seen the 12v B+ have an open due to solder degradation), or a broken wire, or??? 

 

I have a private source for the pumps so I haven't bought a pump from a vendor company in a long time. Some have bought the new pump  parts from Euromotoelectic (good prices) but lately I have heard rumblings of some quality issues. 

 

Another alternative is  BeemerBoneyard, they stand behind their parts & are also helpful in parts selection. If you mention that you are a member of this (BMWsporttouring.com) website they usually offer a discount. 

 

On the hoses/clamps, personally I just use the BMW R-10 rated high pressure submersible "U" hose & OEM clamps. But I haven't installed a pump/hoses in a while now so there are some new offerings of convoluted plastic that some have been using. These seem to work OK but I haven't seen or heard of any long term usage feedback so I can't comment on their long term reliability.

 

Some have also made their own metal U tube with rubber R-10 connector hoses. I have reservations on doing this unless you have a way of putting barbs or a slight (non cutting) expanded area on the ends to prevent high pressure hose blow-off if the system deadheads. 

 

 

[Keith S]

Afternoon D.R.

Thanks for the help and I'll update you guys with what I find since I'm sure there are people using this info for their own breakdown trouble shooting.

Into the fuel tank maze I go.....

Keith

[Keith S]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Keith

 

Sounds like you need to remove the fuel tank & take look (or measure). Might be a pump problem, or a pump pass-through plate problem (I have seen the 12v B+ have an open due to solder degradation), or a broken wire, or??? 

 

I have a private source for the pumps so I haven't bought a pump from a vendor company in a long time. Some have bought the new pump  parts from Euromotoelectic (good prices) but lately I have heard rumblings of some quality issues. 

 

Another alternative is  BeemerBoneyard, they stand behind their parts & are also helpful in parts selection. If you mention that you are a member of this (BMWsporttouring.com) website they usually offer a discount. 

 

On the hoses/clamps, personally I just use the BMW R-10 rated high pressure submersible "U" hose & OEM clamps. But I haven't installed a pump/hoses in a while now so there are some new offerings of convoluted plastic that some have been using. These seem to work OK but I haven't seen or heard of any long term usage feedback so I can't comment on their long term reliability.

 

Some have also made their own metal U tube with rubber R-10 connector hoses. I have reservations on doing this unless you have a way of putting barbs or a slight (non cutting) expanded area on the ends to prevent high pressure hose blow-off if the system deadheads. 

 

 

Hey DR

Well I got the pump assembly out and I put positive 12v directly on the pump stud with the green wire and the negative 12v on the stud with the brown wire and nothing.

I switched to polarity just to see and again nothing

I metered between the two studs and got an open circuit.

All hoses including the U were in good shape but I noticed I used the wrong style of hose clamp and there was surface deterioration of the hose under the clamp.

Living in Canada shipping from the states can get brutal so I'm going to order the complete kit from BeemerBoneyard to keep it simple.

Do you recommend getting the submersible wire kit as an upgrade?

Was looking at the metal tank hose quick disconnects they sell, thoughts?

Again I''ll follow up once I install the parts etc

Thanks again!

Keith

 

[dirtrider]

30 minutes ago, Keith S said:

Hey DR

Well I got the pump assembly out and I put positive 12v directly on the pump stud with the green wire and the negative 12v on the stud with the brown wire and nothing.

I switched to polarity just to see and again nothing

I metered between the two studs and got an open circuit.

All hoses including the U were in good shape but I noticed I used the wrong style of hose clamp and there was surface deterioration of the hose under the clamp.

Living in Canada shipping from the states can get brutal so I'm going to order the complete kit from BeemerBoneyard to keep it simple.

Do you recommend getting the submersible wire kit as an upgrade?

Was looking at the metal tank hose quick disconnects they sell, thoughts?

Again I''ll follow up once I install the parts etc

Evening Keith

 

Do you recommend getting the submersible wire kit as an upgrade?--- Probably a very good idea, I have access to special fuel submersible wire (a bit stiffer then OEM BMW submersible wire but very high quality) so I haven't used any of those wire kits.  

 

Was looking at the metal tank hose quick disconnects they sell, thoughts?--- Yes, the OEM plastic quick disconnects are prone to cracking then leaking so quality metal QD's are usually a good upgrade.

 

When you get your new pump be very careful to not run it open air (nothing flowing through it) as those pumps are both fuel cooled & the bearings are fuel lubricated. If you want to do a very quick power-on test then spray a little WD-40 in before the quick spin-up test.

[Skywagon]

Keith...when I had my 2005 RT I bought the metal quick disconnects from beemerboneyard.  They were very well made.  One of my plastic ones cracked when I was 250 miles from home.  It was the only time my oilhead left me stranded.  Otherwise it was an amazing bike.

[Keith S]

1 hour ago, Skywagon said:

Keith...when I had my 2005 RT I bought the metal quick disconnects from beemerboneyard.  They were very well made.  One of my plastic ones cracked when I was 250 miles from home.  It was the only time my oilhead left me stranded.  Otherwise it was an amazing bike.

Hey Skywagon

Thanks for the info and yes I'm going to order them. I decided to just get the fuel pump instead of the kit to save a few bucks.

Keith