Question about keys.

[009jim]

hi guys, You've all been very helpful on my previvous queries. Thanks heaps. I have another question about keys.

 

Bike is 2012 RT. My top box came off at speed and got banged up. Insurance is going to replace it. I have been told they want my keys so they can set the new lock cyclinder on the new box to match my keys. But I don't want that. I want a separate key (i.e. a different key) for the new box.

 

Can I buy another key (either new, or 2nd hand) and give it to the repairer?

[dirtrider]

7 hours ago, 009jim said:

hi guys, You've all been very helpful on my previvous queries. Thanks heaps. I have another question about keys.

 

Bike is 2012 RT. My top box came off at speed and got banged up. Insurance is going to replace it. I have been told they want my keys so they can set the new lock cyclinder on the new box to match my keys. But I don't want that. I want a separate key (i.e. a different key) for the new box.

 

Can I buy another key (either new, or 2nd hand) and give it to the repairer?

Morning 009jim

 

They can re-key it to any any key that will PROPERLY fit the lock cylinder. So you can buy another key, possibly E-Bay, or??

 

Or have your key duplicated (it won't have the anti-theft pellet in it) but have the duplication skip one key notch, or try asking the BMW dealer that you are buying the case from as a lot of BMW dealers have miscellaneous  keys laying around. 

[Hosstage]

I have to ask: why?

[szurszewski]

1 hour ago, Hosstage said:

I have to ask: why?

So when they valet park the bike, they can keep the good stuff in the top box. 

[dirtrider]

10 minutes ago, szurszewski said:

So when they valet park the bike, they can keep the good stuff in the top box. 

Morning szurszewski

 

Nobody that I ride with would allow ANYONE to valet park their BMW motorcycle. 

[Hosstage]

I think he was being a little sarcastic. 😉

[szurszewski]

13 hours ago, Hosstage said:

I think he was being a little sarcastic. 😉

which is the absolute least sarcastic I can be - even getting down to a little takes a concerted effort. 

[szurszewski]

14 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning szurszewski

 

Nobody that I ride with would allow ANYONE to valet park their BMW motorcycle. 

While I was kidding, I must say that means your friends are missing out on the opportunity to give someone else an unexpectedly amazing day. 
 

While I certainly wouldn’t let just anyone ride one of my bikes - or drive one of my cars - when I have occasion to give someone who seems competent and expresses interest in a vehicle it’s not unheard of for me to say, wanna take it for a spin?

 

Now, I don’t mean someone coming up and saying hey man, let me ride your bike. That’s not happening. But if someone who happened to be riding something else starts talking to me about my bike and says how much they like, well. 
 

Happens more often with my wife’s car though - pretty plane Jane 90s bmw convertible, but I get a compliment almost every time I drive it, and sometimes in the right situation I get to say, well - can you drive a stick?

 

I mean, if they aren’t going to kill themselves or someone else…

 

Hasn’t anyone ever done that for you? I’ll never forget the time a guy whose son was dating my wife’s friend (which is to say, some guy I don’t know) was showing us his showroom new looking mustang gt500. I said something like, I bet it sounds amazing and he said - sure does, do you wanna try it out? 

[Skywagon]

I never valet anymore. I mean never even if supposedly required I refuse and say you can ride with me, but not giving you my keys. I’ve had two bad experiences and won’t let that happen again. 
 

My dentist bought a new high end Tesla. I asked if it was fast. She said here, go drive it for an hour or so. Brand new. I thanked her and passed. 

[Hosstage]

I don't frequent places nice enough for a valet too often. Wouldn't have a problem letting them park the Camry.

I've let many friends ride my bikes over the years, some with not much riding experience. Strangers not so much. Others let me ride their bike early on in my riding career, and I thank them for that. My friends and I still swap bikes occasionally. My brother just bought a hell of a hotrod Harley, can't wait to get that on the road.

After telling me many times to drive it, I finally took my son-in-law's Audi RS5 for a ride. Yeah, I can't own one, I will go to jail.

 

Got way off topic about trunk keys, sorry about that.

[009jim]

On 4/28/2023 at 9:50 PM, Hosstage said:

I have to ask: why?

Two reasons:-

(a) If I ever want to ship the bike things can be locked in the top box and not be accessible.

(b) I don't want to leave the key to my motorcycle with some smash repair place. They have my address. Easy way to have it stolen. 

[009jim]

On 4/28/2023 at 9:00 PM, dirtrider said:

They can re-key it to any any key that will PROPERLY fit the lock cylinder. So you can buy another key, possibly E-Bay, or??

 

Or have your key duplicated (it won't have the anti-theft pellet in it) but have the duplication skip one key notch, or try asking the BMW dealer that you are buying the case from as a lot of BMW dealers have miscellaneous  keys laying around. 

These are good comments.

I'd like to just buy a random key from somebody whose bike was wrecked.

[dirtrider]

5 hours ago, 009jim said:

Two reasons:-

(a) If I ever want to ship the bike things can be locked in the top box and not be accessible.

(b) I don't want to leave the key to my motorcycle with some smash repair place. They have my address. Easy way to have it stolen. 

Morning  009jim

 

(b) I don't want to leave the key to my motorcycle with some smash repair place. They have my address. Easy way to have it stolen. -- This is not not an issue on the newer BMW motorcycles with the anti-theft pellet in the key. They can easily duplicate the key itself but that specific anti-theft key pellet can not be reproduced. To get a new (replacement) key with a new anti-theft pellet they would have to take your title along with your identification to a BMW dealer & have them special order a new key with a new pellet then program that into your motorcycle.

 

If they want your motorcycle that bad they will  just show up at your place with a van, or pickup truck, or trailer, with 4 large guys then toss it on the trailer or in the truck & drive away.       

[szurszewski]

9 hours ago, 009jim said:

Two reasons:-

(a) If I ever want to ship the bike things can be locked in the top box and not be accessible.

(b) I don't want to leave the key to my motorcycle with some smash repair place. They have my address. Easy way to have it stolen. 

 

 

If you want a separate key, no reason for me to dissuade you, so I'm not trying to, but I am curious about your reasons. The first one I understand, but I don't understand the second one. And by that I mean, literally, I don't understand what you're saying - who are you worried about having the key to your bike but not worried about having a key to the top box? Some sort of autobody repair shop?

[009jim]

On 4/30/2023 at 9:32 PM, dirtrider said:

If they want your motorcycle that bad they will  just show up at your place with a van, or pickup truck, or trailer, with 4 large guys then toss it on the trailer or in the truck & drive away.     

That won't be possible at my place because of several limitations. 

[009jim]

On 5/1/2023 at 1:50 AM, szurszewski said:

who are you worried about having the key to your bike but not worried about having a key to the top box? Some sort of autobody repair shop?

(a) I don't want the smash repair shop having a key to my bike. Risk = loss of bike.

(b) I am not worried about the smash repair shop having a random key and matching the new top box to the random key. Risk = loss of contents of top box.

 

[Hosstage]

Time to get a new repair shop if you're worried about them stealing your stuff or your bike.

[009jim]

1 hour ago, Hosstage said:

Time to get a new repair shop if you're worried about them stealing your stuff or your bike.

The repair shop is the requirement from my insurance, so I cannot change.

Can you tell me where I can buy a random key?

[dirtrider]

9 hours ago, 009jim said:

(a) I don't want the smash repair shop having a key to my bike. Risk = loss of bike.

(b) I am not worried about the smash repair shop having a random key and matching the new top box to the random key. Risk = loss of contents of top box.

 

Morning 009jim

 

I don't want the smash repair shop having a key to my bike. Risk = loss of bike.-- I don't understand this, I don't know of any repair shops that will accept a motorcycle for crash work without having a working key to go with it.  Without a key they can't verify the fork locks works, can't power it up to verify braking system functions properly, or headlight/brake light works, or verify no system electrical damage.  

 

But even if you leave your working key with them they can't duplicate a working key as they can't duplicate a matching anti-theft pellet that is in YOUR key.  They can duplicate the key itself but not a key that will start the motorcycle. 

 

 

 

 

[Hosstage]

8 hours ago, 009jim said:

The repair shop is the requirement from my insurance, so I cannot change.

Can you tell me where I can buy a random key?

I'm sorry, no, I cannot help you with finding a random key.

I'm still having a little trouble figuring out exactly what problem you are trying to solve, but I wish you luck in finding a key and accomplishing your goals. As dr says, the shop will need your key to properly repair and test your motorcycle. Even a simple oil change requires a key to start the bike to test for pressure.

[John Ranalletta]

Perhaps, I don't understand the quandry, but, if you had a separate key for the case prior to the accident, wouldn't you still have that key?  If so, re-key the new case lock enabling the existing key.  

[Hosstage]

8 minutes ago, John Ranalletta said:

Perhaps, I don't understand the quandry, but, if you had a separate key for the case prior to the accident, wouldn't you still have that key?  If so, re-key the new case lock enabling the existing key.  

John, he has the original key that matches trunk and ignition, he is looking for a new key to use with the trunk that is different than than the ignition key, and having the trunk tumbler matched to that new key.

[John Ranalletta]

5 minutes ago, Hosstage said:

John, he has the original key that matches trunk and ignition, he is looking for a new key to use with the trunk that is different than than the ignition key, and having the trunk tumbler matched to that new key.

Oh.  I assumed he was trying to recreate a condition that existed prior to the case get off.

 

I bought a top case from @Boxflyer I will try to rekey.  This might be helpful.  Dunno.

[szurszewski]

I'm guessing the BIKE is not going to the "smash shop" (new term for me!), but just the topbox is for paint maybe. The concern is that if the smash shop had a key that would work with the bike, and the info on where the bike lived they could drive to his house with the key and steal the bike. But that's just a guess. 

 

Personally I think that's very unlikely to happen and I wouldn't worry about it, but that doesn't help the OP at all, and if he's worried about it that's his business. Not knowing where he lives, I can't say this isn't a common occurrence there.

 

@009jim I know insurance laws vary a lot by state - a shame your state allows your insurer to mandate a body shop. I live in WA and work in OR (dealing a lot with cars - our small company has purchased five new ones this year already). Neither state will allow this - the insurer can RECOMMEND a shop, but you are free to choose. Of course, that's assuming you're in the US - I don't know where in the world you are. 

 

I don't know how hard it is to get the lock cylinder out of the RT topbox, but if you can do that, you can just rearrange the wafers in the cylinder yourself once you have the topbox back - or pay your dealer to do it (presuming you trust them with the keys to your bike). Can this topbox be delivered to you unlocked and, ideally, with the cylinder already removed (the smash shop would have to take it out to rekey it, so...)?

[Hosstage]

It makes more sense to me if the trunk is the only piece at the shop, them I can understand the desire for a different key. It does make things more complicated  for use on the road, needing two keys.

[009jim]

On 5/2/2023 at 9:06 PM, dirtrider said:

I don't know of any repair shops that will accept a motorcycle for crash work without having a working key to go with it.

I'm quite sure this will make sense if you read my original inquiry. There is no motorcycle getting crash work. There was no crash.

[009jim]

On 5/2/2023 at 10:23 PM, Hosstage said:

John, he has the original key that matches trunk and ignition, he is looking for a new key to use with the trunk that is different than than the ignition key, and having the trunk tumbler matched to that new key.

This is correct 100%.

 

[Hosstage]

I understand now that you are just having the trunk repaired, removed from the bike, the bike will not be at the shop. I also understand why you might want a different key due to fear of bike theft. But as dr pointed out, it would be very difficult for the shop to make a copy of your ignition key, and having two different keys sure makes it more complicated when out on the road. It also seems to be complicating the repair for you.

Also, is an 11 year old bike that prone to theft?

Not sure why you have trust issues with the shop, and I don't know where you are located, but in the US the insurance companies cannot dictate which shop you must use. They can recommend a shop, and question a higher bid, but no mandatory shop. 

Good luck in however it works out.

[dirtrider]

Morning 009jim

 

If all you need is a key to leave at the shop that will open the box but not start your motorcycle that is easy IF you have a store that can cut you a new key. (probably depends of your country & location) 

 

Just buy a key blank without the anti-theft pellet (about all you will be able to buy anyhow) then have that cut to match your original key.   

 

This will allow your stock key to work in that top box once you get it painted, it will also allow the new cut key blank to open your top box at the paint shop,  but that new cut key blank can NOT start your motorcycle as it has no anti-theft pellet. (best of all solutions) 

[009jim]

On 5/5/2023 at 10:04 PM, Hosstage said:

Not sure why you have trust issues with the shop,

I have trust issues with everybody. As a general rule, the way I shop is that I hand over cash when the seller hands over the produce. I never allow any business owner to get into a position of control over me as a result of them having something of mine and me not having any leverage on them. They already told me they want the old case so they can match the paint. I don't like it. Once they have my old case, and my new case, and my key, they have a lot of power. What if I express disatisfaction with the final product? They will say "Oh well you will just have to leave everything here and we'll see if we can fix that". Yeah sure. No way I am getting into that position. I like to have the option to walk away if it's not done properly. It's happened to me many times before.

[szurszewski]

That sounds really stressful - I hope this transaction works out well for you.

[Tri750]

Sheesh 

I have a couple of extra sidecut keys.. 

I’ll sell you one .
text me 559-288-1490 

tri750@hotmail.com 

[PDX Mike]

I'm probably missing something very basic here, but can't you just deliver the top box unlocked? I leave my top box unlocked most of the time so I don't need the key to open or close it.