Starting/Battery issue?

[Hadabadachada]

Hello.

just purchased a used R1200R from 2013

 

from the dealer, I felt like the battery wasn’t quite right. Push the starter button, display goes blank, takes a second or so then comes back and actually cranks. Feels weak.  I’m no expert on these bikes, or anything for that matter.

They had it green on charge all night. 
even turned around and went back to have dealer test it because it felt weak starting at the gas station.

they put it on the machine ran whatever test and it checked out good. Okay fine, whatever you say.

 

feels weak tho! 
stopped at batteries plus, had them test it, they said it tests good, and has like 300 some cranking amps on their machine. 
they say the machine tests a cranking load but not a full load, whatever that means. Sounds like diaper talk.

 

dealer didn’t know how old the battery was but seemed pretty confident it was new. Sure looks newish.

 

but it just doesn’t feel right. 
 

Sounds like a bad battery though right? With the display going blank then coming back and starting….

but then again, it’s a new bike to me, maybe this is normal, like ducatis have that weird delayed start thing.
 

im thinking of just going and buying a new battery, even tho the dealer should pay for it or replace it. They are just 40 miles away and won’t open till Tuesday. 
 

Is this a normal starting sequence ??

[6speedTi]

Check with your dealer to verify if the switch blocks were replaced under a recall campaign.  Next check your ground cable from the battery to the other end. Corrosion,  security and condition.  That's all that comes to mind now. You said the battery tested good so you've eliminated the battery for now. 

[dirtrider]

12 hours ago, Hadabadachada said:

Hello.

just purchased a used R1200R from 2013

 

from the dealer, I felt like the battery wasn’t quite right. Push the starter button, display goes blank, takes a second or so then comes back and actually cranks. Feels weak.  I’m no expert on these bikes, or anything for that matter.

They had it green on charge all night. 
even turned around and went back to have dealer test it because it felt weak starting at the gas station.

they put it on the machine ran whatever test and it checked out good. Okay fine, whatever you say.

 

feels weak tho! 
stopped at batteries plus, had them test it, they said it tests good, and has like 300 some cranking amps on their machine. 
they say the machine tests a cranking load but not a full load, whatever that means. Sounds like diaper talk.

 

dealer didn’t know how old the battery was but seemed pretty confident it was new. Sure looks newish.

 

but it just doesn’t feel right. 
 

Sounds like a bad battery though right? With the display going blank then coming back and starting….

but then again, it’s a new bike to me, maybe this is normal, like ducatis have that weird delayed start thing.
 

im thinking of just going and buying a new battery, even tho the dealer should pay for it or replace it. They are just 40 miles away and won’t open till Tuesday. 
 

Is this a normal starting sequence ??

Morning Hadabadachada

 

A number of possibilities on this one__

 

The dash shutting down is a clue if we can use it.

 

The first thing that you need to verify is actual cranking battery voltage,  so if you have a DC voltmeter put that on 20v scale, then put it across your battery posts (on the posts themselves not the cables). Then push the start button, what does the voltage drop-to when the dash shuts down? What is the voltage once it starts cranking?

 

If the voltage seems normal (above 10.5v) for both the above,  then next, with meter on a low (20V) DC scale do a voltage drop test on both the large battery cable between the (+) battery post & the starter solenoid big stud.

 

Then do another voltage drop test between the battery (-) post & the starter housing.

 

The voltage drop tests will show you if you have high resistance in the high/amp side of the starting system.

 

Once the above is verified then we can look into any problems that it shows, or OK that side then move on to other areas of the electrical system.

 

 

[Hadabadachada]

I need to order a Haynes or something. New bike.

 

so I only noticed the screen go blank that one time after a ride, 5 minute break restart attempt. Haven’t noticed it go blank since that once. 
I had been riding the bike all day practically when that happened that’s why it was weird.

hooked up the volt meter last night when bike was still warm, and again this morning on a cold start. 
voltage is in the high 12, low 13. On the crank it drops to around 10.6 ish. And running it’s in the mid to upper 13 range.

 

I may have to take some things off to check the starter solenoid, hence the need for a manual. Was going to rip apart the bike and give a good look and clean my next free day. 

 

battery does seem good. I wonder if it’s a connection somewhere, or maybe the bike is coming out of its rest and just needs to stretch out. We will see what happens today, I’ll be using it here and there. 
 

was hoping to get a break from tinkering on bikes getting something a little newer LOL

just the way it goes for me.

[dirtrider]

38 minutes ago, Hadabadachada said:

I need to order a Haynes or something. New bike.

 

so I only noticed the screen go blank that one time after a ride, 5 minute break restart attempt. Haven’t noticed it go blank since that once. 
I had been riding the bike all day practically when that happened that’s why it was weird.

hooked up the volt meter last night when bike was still warm, and again this morning on a cold start. 
voltage is in the high 12, low 13. On the crank it drops to around 10.6 ish. And running it’s in the mid to upper 13 range.

 

I may have to take some things off to check the starter solenoid, hence the need for a manual. Was going to rip apart the bike and give a good look and clean my next free day. 

 

battery does seem good. I wonder if it’s a connection somewhere, or maybe the bike is coming out of its rest and just needs to stretch out. We will see what happens today, I’ll be using it here and there. 
 

was hoping to get a break from tinkering on bikes getting something a little newer LOL

just the way it goes for me.

Afternoon Hadabadachada

 

OK, that 10.6v cranking is OK, but it is cranking OK with no dash cut-out. You really need to catch the battery cranking voltage when the problem IS HAPPENING. 

[Hadabadachada]

So one thing I noticed after several start ups today, sometimes it starts more “normal” like, others it kinda struggles. 
 

one of the times it was struggling so I released the button, tried again and it wound right up. 

it needs a good proper cleaning..

 

It probably has something to do with the corrosion on the bike. A little rusty on some parts. 

I’ve seen a number of bikes that live close to the water and I’m told it was a dentist who traded it in to get a new bike. I’m guessing it stayed by the water in a condo garage and wasn’t used too much. 
 

so I’m wondering if maybe there’s some corrosion in the starter or a connector or a relay or something.
 

probably take it back to them this week and let them trouble shoot it. 
they probably hardly ever started it and it just feels like the battery needs charged.

so they charge it. It’s charged. 330 cranking amps according to the tests yesterday. 
 

wonder if these bikes can be push started, bump started if need be.

[bruce2000ltc]

Checkout this YouTube video by Tinderboxarts.  Painter, the author, has a great collection of videos for the camhead.

 

 

[lkraus]

On 4/2/2023 at 4:21 PM, Hadabadachada said:

wonder if these bikes can be push started, bump started if need be.

Maybe, theoretically, if there is enough battery charge available to power the fuel pump, injectors, and computers.  You might try it before you need to do it. 

 

That video explains the issues with bump starting pretty well. I would add that using an even higher gear for the start will improve the chances for success and reduce the speed needed.

 

I could not manage a push start when my battery failed suddenly at a fuel stop. I had lights, could hear the pump, but everything died when I hit the starter button, clock reset, etc. Even using 6th gear for the best mechanical advantage,  the rear wheel skidded before the engine turned over. I might have had better luck if I had tried to back up first to develop some momentum before the first compression stroke.  Having a second person to help would also be a good idea, it's a lot of weight to control while running alongside.

[Hadabadachada]

https://youtu.be/8NnGfLhwSlM

 

here’s about the worst one yet other than the initial reason for this post. 
 

Screen never died here but you can hear in the video the electric noises when it stops spinning but continues to get power. I couldn’t hear it under my helmet. 

then it cranks right up.

 

 

id say time for a new starter, bugger.

[Hadabadachada]

So I’ve been researching r1200r batteries, well, what the internet says anyway. 

 

a lot of the forum posts I’ve found mention that the manual or whatever they are looking at, for this bike, recommends a 14Ah battery. 
 

the parts diagrams show a part number for a 12Ah battery, which is the one that’s in my bike. 
 

so it seems a 12Ah battery is what the parts list has, so I don’t know where people find it’s recommended a 14Ah battery.

 

I’ve also seen where people say they have put in a 16Ah battery.

 

so I’m getting kinda serious about going to the battery store and blowing the money. 
On either a 14 or maybe a 16 

which I assume has more CCA which in hopes, would turn the engine easier.

 

what battery do you folks use on your 1200R camhead?
 

[6speedTi]

I have a Odyssey battery. 

PC680. 

https://www.odysseybatteries.com/odyssey/pc680.html

[9Mary7]

Yuasa....... always worked great for me.

[dirtrider]

On 4/10/2023 at 3:47 PM, Hadabadachada said:

So I’ve been researching r1200r batteries, well, what the internet says anyway. 

 

a lot of the forum posts I’ve found mention that the manual or whatever they are looking at, for this bike, recommends a 14Ah battery. 
 

the parts diagrams show a part number for a 12Ah battery, which is the one that’s in my bike. 
 

so it seems a 12Ah battery is what the parts list has, so I don’t know where people find it’s recommended a 14Ah battery.

 

I’ve also seen where people say they have put in a 16Ah battery.

 

so I’m getting kinda serious about going to the battery store and blowing the money. 
On either a 14 or maybe a 16 

which I assume has more CCA which in hopes, would turn the engine easier.

 

what battery do you folks use on your 1200R camhead?
 

Afternoon  Hadabadachada

 

The 12/14/16 amp hour only makes a real difference if you intend to leave your parking lights on longer. It also depends on the pull-down voltage that the amp hour rating was taken at.  

 

The thing that is really important to you as far as a STARTING battery goes is CCA (Cold Cranking Amps), that is really how a STARTING battery should be rated, not in amp hours as amp hours is more of a continuous low draw rating (like for a power supply or something like an electric trolling motor). 

 

The amp hour rating can give you some idea on the battery storage capacity but that depends on if all the batteries being compared are  pulled down to the same voltage at end of the rating test. (it does you no good if the amp hour rating goes down to 8 volts as your motorcycle has no use for the 11.5 to 8 volt part of that rating.  

 

If your motorcycle is started &  used in mostly warm weather then starting CCA is not a big deal but if you start it at below 20°f then the CCA rating IS a big deal. 

 

There are also some very good dual rating type batteries (like the Odyssey) as those are primarily a non starting type battery but they do have an excellent cold cranking ability.   

[Hadabadachada]

I guess I was under the impression that the 14 or 16 Ah battery would have more cranking amps being a “bigger” battery. 
sounds like it really wouldn’t matter to me anyway being down in Miami. 
 

 

[dirtrider]

10 minutes ago, Hadabadachada said:

I guess I was under the impression that the 14 or 16 Ah battery would have more cranking amps being a “bigger” battery. 
sounds like it really wouldn’t matter to me anyway being down in Miami. 
 

 

Afternoon  Hadabadachada

 

It CAN but doesn't necessarily mean it does. The battery can only be so large & still fit properly in your motorcycle, they can squeeze in slightly larger plates but not a lot & still stay properly secured & insulated inside the case. 

 

Using amp hour rating is a very old & inaccurate way of rating a vehicle starting battery. That is the reason that CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) is now used as a way more accurate way of rating a starting battery. 

 

 

[Hadabadachada]

Totally agree Ah doesn’t tell much unless you’re running a trolling motor on your boat or something. 
 

I tried hooking up my R1100S battery which is the odyssey for that bike. 
 

got the same slow/labored starting on the 1200R, I think it says it has 170CCA, tho that seems irrelevant to me since it’s 79 degrees out.
so I’m assuming i have more of a starter issue. Still need to do the voltage checks you recommended.