2003 650 CS scarver switch issue

[Blake8098]

I’m sure I’m in the wrong thread for this bike but it’s new to me and I don’t know the wethead hexhead etc stuff for it so if you can point me in the right direction, please do. However, while I’m here I’ll ask. When I turn the key off and pull the key. I’m in the right key position by the way. The light behind the hazard lights switch stays on and will drain the battery. If I turn the hazards on then off (with the key pulled out) it will go off so that has been working for me for the moment but I would like to fix. It acts like it just needs to drain a capacitor or something. If anyone has run into this problem I’d love to know how they solved it. 
 

thanks. 

[dirtrider]

16 hours ago, Blake8098 said:

I’m sure I’m in the wrong thread for this bike but it’s new to me and I don’t know the wethead hexhead etc stuff for it so if you can point me in the right direction, please do. However, while I’m here I’ll ask. When I turn the key off and pull the key. I’m in the right key position by the way. The light behind the hazard lights switch stays on and will drain the battery. If I turn the hazards on then off (with the key pulled out) it will go off so that has been working for me for the moment but I would like to fix. It acts like it just needs to drain a capacitor or something. If anyone has run into this problem I’d love to know how they solved it. 
 

thanks. 

Morning  Blake8098

 

This probably belongs in Non R/K bikes forum but it will be OK here.

 

You have a difficult issue to troubleshoot over the internet, first problem is there are a number of different versions of the  650CS, different country versions, & even a version without hazard flashers. So the first thing that needs to be done is figure out what country your 650CS was built for?  

 

ABS or no ABS? 

 

But even knowing the above it is going to take person that is very familiar with the electrics on your particular 650CS motorcycle (I haven't worked on one of those for many years now) or a tec (or person) with your motorcycle in-hand  & a very good understanding of odd-ball motorcycle electrical issues. 

 

I could probably find the issue with your motorcycle in front of me, but over the internet it will be somewhat difficult to even very difficult, plus it will require an electrical savvy person on the other side of the internet connection.

 

Your 650 CS has a number of isolation diodes in the turn signal circuits so verifying that one of those is not shorted would probably be my first step (I can't help you with locations of those as it has been years since I have worked with the old 650CS & even then I had no reason to pay attention to their location).  

 

Your problem isn't a capacitor issue as that type of failure would not run the battery down. 

 

It sounds more like a relay or  shorted diode & even then, the key-on then-back-off turning the light off, doesn't exactly point to a shorted diode.

 

I might be of some help to you IF you can provide more in depth  information on your problem (lot more information), when it started, history of the motorcycle, country motorcycle was built for, ABS or no ABS, etc  but with those isolation diodes in the system & my limited background with the 650CS it isn't going to easy or quick.  

 

If you are working on this yourself then definitely start by verifying the isolation diodes are not shorted (I believe there are 3 of them). If someone else is working on this motorcycle for you then suggest that they start by verifying the isolation diodes are not shorted.  

 

Added: This might help us a little___ Will your hazards come on (or try to come on) with the key-OFF by just using the hazard switch with key-off. The answer to this might help us narrow it down a little better.    

[szurszewski]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

It sounds more like a relay or  shorted diode & even then, the key-on then-back-off turning the light off, doesn't exactly point to a shorted diode.

In case it makes a difference, I believe the OP is saying that, after removing the key and the hazard switch is illuminated, he can solve that by turning the hazards on then off - without having to reinsert the key at any point. 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, szurszewski said:

In case it makes a difference, I believe the OP is saying that, after removing the key and the hazard switch is illuminated, he can solve that by turning the hazards on then off - without having to reinsert the key at any point. 

Morning szurszewski

 

I did initially read that correctly but but by the time I got to posting that sentence I didn't write it correctly. My mind was preoccupied on this as I kept trying to think back to remember that old 650 diode isolation system & how it actually functioned.  

 

It shouldn't (but might) make a difference, it is good that you brought it up. Actually it got me thinking on this problem some more so I added an additional question to my first post. 

[Blake8098]

Just bought the bike a week ago. Got it home and it sat for a few days. When I went to start it it was dead. Couldn’t get the old battery to charge so I put a new one in. After putting in the new one and starting it to run I turned the key off and took it out. Then I noticed that the bulb behind the hazard switch was still illuminated. With the key still out. I flipped the switch on and the lights blinked. I then flipped it off and the bulb was out. After that point I could not turn the hazards on again until the key was back in. 
 

im not sure how to tell what country etc

[dirtrider]

13 hours ago, Blake8098 said:

Just bought the bike a week ago. Got it home and it sat for a few days. When I went to start it it was dead. Couldn’t get the old battery to charge so I put a new one in. After putting in the new one and starting it to run I turned the key off and took it out. Then I noticed that the bulb behind the hazard switch was still illuminated. With the key still out. I flipped the switch on and the lights blinked. I then flipped it off and the bulb was out. After that point I could not turn the hazards on again until the key was back in. 
 

im not sure how to tell what country etc

Morning Blake8098

 

I you want to PM (message me) though this site you can send me your VIN & I will look the info up for your motorcycle as far a country & lighting. (for now we can probably live without it)  as your motorcycle DOES have hazard flashers, & they need the key ON to start the hazard flashing sequence, then you can turn the key to off & they should remain flashing until you turn the hazard switch to off.  

 

Your 650 CS has a very strange outlier hazard system ("really complex" for a simple hazard system), my guess is that is because the 650 CS  originally had no hazard system for some countries & BMW had to  add that system later for import to countries like the USA, Canada, etc).

 

In any case your hazard system uses an isolation diode in each side turn signal circuit (I'm pretty sure these are not your problem), it also uses an isolation diode between the (key-ON) 12v B+  & the flasher unit (this is so the hazards can stay on once the key is turned off but it can't then back-feed the ignition switch accessory circuit once key is turned off.  (this diode could possibly be your problem if shorted)

 

Your motorcycle also has a very confusing (complicated) double (cross-feeding) set of relays for the hazard system. These relays are initially energized from your hazard switch, once initiated they then feed the 12v back into the turn signal flasher unit.

 

So my guess is that one or both of these relays could be the root of your issue, or a wiring issue at or feeding these relays, or that flasher unit isolation diode could be the issue, or even a problem within the hazard switch itself. 

 

Most riders never use their hazard system so you might try removing the  (Hazard warning relay) to see if your problem goes away. If that helps then see if your turn signals still work OK (they should). If that doesn't help then next remove the (Flashing signal relay), then see if that stops your issue. Then again make sure that your turn signals still work. (removing relays then observing function is a BIG first step in diagnosing your hazard issue). 

 

If removing both the relays above doesn't put your hazard switch light out then that sort of points to the issue possibly inside the hazard switch itself. 

 

The above is a little much for most non-electrical-savvy riders  but if you print the above out then give that printout to whoever you get to work on the motorcycle it can save them a lot of time & probably save you a fair amount of money as it sort of cuts to the chase on where to start looking for your problem. My guess is there are not many tecs still around that remember working on that old 650 CS turn signal system. 

 

Or,  if you don't need, or plan on using your hazard flashers then possibly the relay removal will solve your switch light-staying-on problem, you just won't have hazard lights available.