96 r1100gs turns over but no spark

[Chausvik]

Hello, I recently removed tank to replace left hand switches. Gas gauge doesn’t work but low fuel light does so tried to access fuel level gauge to move around and see if it might fix itself. It did nothing and I’m okay keeping it topped off so put it back together. Noticed many wire insulations crumbling so replaces and protected what I could. Here’s where I’m at now. Fuel pump works, fuel line pressure good, charged battery turns over but nothing happens. Checked both plugs and no spark. Haven’t probed coil but it was all working prior to tank removal so I’m stumped. Checked fuses, no issue. Going to replace plugs and go from there, is there any reset needed I’m not aware of?  Any help appreciated.

[Michaelr11]

20 minutes ago, Chausvik said:

Hello, I recently removed tank to replace left hand switches. Gas gauge doesn’t work but low fuel light does so tried to access fuel level gauge to move around and see if it might fix itself. It did nothing and I’m okay keeping it topped off so put it back together. Noticed many wire insulations crumbling so replaces and protected what I could. Here’s where I’m at now. Fuel pump works, fuel line pressure good, charged battery turns over but nothing happens. Checked both plugs and no spark. Haven’t probed coil but it was all working prior to tank removal so I’m stumped. Checked fuses, no issue. Going to replace plugs and go from there, is there any reset needed I’m not aware of?  Any help appreciated.

 

Outer wire bundle sheath crumbling is common and has no impact.  Individual wire insulation crumbling is usually on the Hall Effect Sensor (HES) wire harness. The HES controls spark and fuel.  If your HES has never been replaced, or properly repaired, that is very likely your issue.  Every 1100 motor of your vintage had a bad HES wire harness, and it must be repaired or replaced.  Every one.

 

[Chausvik]

What and where is the HES?

[Chausvik]

Thanks for info, how hard is this job to do?  Looks like the failed piece goes to the front of the motor and the rest of the harness (probably needs to be replaced as well goes everywhere. Limited time before I move from oki to italy, I’m thinking pay a shop to do it.

[JMitchell]

Below is a link I found helpful in replacing the HES.  

 

I purchased mine new from:

 

https://www.beemerboneyard.com

 

 

[King Herald]

That definitely looks like a failed HES wiring, mine was nowhere near that bad.

 

When I replaced  my HES (40,000 miles ago) I simply placed it mid slot, and it ran perfectly, same as it always had. The furthest out you can get it is only about 3° forward or backward, I believe. 

 

Oddly enough, just yesterday I decided to check my timing after reading an article somewhere. I marked the flywheel with white paint to make the markings easier to see, but at idle I seem to be way off the 6° mark, advanced, though at high rpm I'm dead on the full advance mark.

 

My idle is a bit rough, needs balancing, but was just below 1000rpm, which I think is where the auto advance comes in. 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Quote

Oddly enough, just yesterday I decided to check my timing after reading an article somewhere. I marked the flywheel with white paint to make the markings easier to see, but at idle I seem to be way off the 6° mark, advanced, though at high rpm I'm dead on the full advance mark.

Morning  King Herald

 

Your curb idle must be well under 1000rpm to be at the base (engine running) 6° BTDC mark. Just a little over 1000 & it jumps up higher. The important one is the max advance. You need to be a little careful bumping the timing up more that a degree or two as a tank of low octane (maybe not even intentional just a screw up at the fueling station under ground tank fill, or at the fueling taker depot) then a high load-high speed ride at a low altitude in unfavorable weather conditions & you might find some piston alloy on your spark plugs.    

[Michaelr11]

Chausvik.  You have been pointed to video showing the procedure.  It’s not that difficult to do.  Mark the position of the original plate and put the replacement in the same spot. There’s a guy who rewires them beautifully with the proper wire, GSADDICT.  Getting the wiring through the frame is easier with the fuel tank removed, but probably could be done with it on, or slightly raised.  Once done, you should never have to worry about it again.

[Chausvik]

Thank you for the guidance. I was able to get a spark after performing the throttle routine so I’m hopeful that was the issue but I definitely need to to fix this HES issue. Where do you recommend purchasing this part?

[King Herald]

19 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning  King Herald

 

Your curb idle must be well under 1000rpm to be at the base (engine running) 6° BTDC mark. Just a little over 1000 & it jumps up higher. The important one is the max advance. You need to be a little careful bumping the timing up more that a degree or two as a tank of low octane (maybe not even intentional just a screw up at the fueling station under ground tank fill, or at the fueling taker depot) then a high load-high speed ride at a low altitude in unfavorable weather conditions & you might find some piston alloy on your spark plugs.    

Morning DR,

I shall leave it well alone then as it appears to be spot on at higher rpm. It's probably okay at idle too, if I were to balance the TBs better so the idle was smoother and a bit lower. That's something that definitely needs doing anyway. 

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, Chausvik said:

Thank you for the guidance. I was able to get a spark after performing the throttle routine so I’m hopeful that was the issue but I definitely need to to fix this HES issue. Where do you recommend purchasing this part?

Morning Chausvik

 

That was just coincidence as the throttle routine (TPS relearn) has nothing to do with the HES working. If you had a NO SPARK issue then that is a separate problem unrelated to the throttle routine (TPS relearn).

[Chausvik]

Good copy, and thank you. Where would you recommend I purchase this item?

[dirtrider]

25 minutes ago, Chausvik said:

Good copy, and thank you. Where would you recommend I purchase this item?

Morning

 

Good question, If buying new then probably from BMW, but that is very expensive & unneeded. 

 

I typically re-wire my own but I have the necessary supplies, tools,  &  know-how to do that. 

 

My best suggestion is to E-Mail    Gsaddict__            arbcon@sunshinecoast.ca          __ as he does a very good professional job of re-wiring your existing HES (will be much better than new). 

 

He is Canada so there are some special requirements to send it to him but it is easy & he will tell you exactly how to send it in to him. 

 

Or if you want new (aftermarket) then BeemerBoneyard     https://www.beemerboneyard.com/12112306137edl.html    

 

If you decide to go with BeemerBoneyard then tell them you are a member of this (BMWSporttouring) web site as they typically give a discount to members of this website. 

 

Or here___       https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/searchresults.asp?Search=hes+sensor&Submit=

 

[Chausvik]

Awesome, thank you again, due to timeline I will purchase directly. 
very respectfully,

chris

[Chausvik]

Okay, I am stumped. I followed the steps down to replacing the HES utilizing a purchased sensor and I can’t get a light to show when when to lock it in and put everything together. Flywhel OT, new HES, if sensor was s bad, I marked previous one, can I align and fire it up?

any help appreciated

[Jim Moore]

Put it in the center and let 'er rip.

[dirtrider]

3 hours ago, Chausvik said:

Okay, I am stumped. I followed the steps down to replacing the HES utilizing a purchased sensor and I can’t get a light to show when when to lock it in and put everything together. Flywhel OT, new HES, if sensor was s bad, I marked previous one, can I align and fire it up?

any help appreciated

Morning  Chausvik

 

If you marked the position of the original to the front cover then just use those marks to line up the new one.  

[Chausvik]

I lined up the HES, put everything back together, did the throttle reset, and am back in the position of engine turning over w no actual ignition. I did get one positive cough but nothing else. I’m out of ideas, is there something I’m missing? 

[dirtrider]

7 hours ago, Chausvik said:

I lined up the HES, put everything back together, did the throttle reset, and am back in the position of engine turning over w no actual ignition. I did get one positive cough but nothing else. I’m out of ideas, is there something I’m missing? 

Morning  Chausvik

 

 

First, have you tried holding the twist grip at about 1/8 to 1/4 open while trying to start it? 

 

Can you hear the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds at key-on?

 

Have you checked for spark during engine cranking? If no spark then we will address that.

 

If no spark then try removing the #5 fuse for about 10 minutes then re-install. Then try starting (all those old old HES problems might have locked the Motronic out, a fuse removal will re-set that). On your 1100 Ma 2.2 there is no need to do a throttle reset (TPS re-learn)

 

You might have to check for the injectors spraying while cranking. Or install a NOID light in one of the injector connectors to check for injector triggering.

 

You might have to check for fuel return hose flow if nothing else shows a problem. 

 

Additional--- Was the HES timing cup properly glued onto the pulley prior to pulley reinstallation? If that timing cup is not glued on the pulley in then it is ever so easy to get the timing cup to not stay lined up properly at pulley re-installation.  You can check this with a timing light to see if the spark is happening at or around TDC during engine cranking. Either pointing the timing light through the timing hole, or removing a spark plug, then using a chopstick or pencil in through the spark plug hole to determine piston TDC, once the piston is at TDC then put a paint mark on the front pulley in line with something on the front cover so your timing light flash  can tell you if the spark is occurring when those marks are close to lining up.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chausvik]

Dirt rider, that was a lot to check but I will start from the top. I did try different throttle positions while turning over the motor and other than a quicker rotation w throttle pulled still no change.  I didn’t pull the fuse this time around so will try this first. Also, I will check spark again. Last spark issue fixed itself after throttle pull.  The fuel pump is starting up, before changing HES I checked fuel line pressure and it’s there. I didn’t check injectors, how do I do that (I can look on YouTube)? The motor truly sounds and feels like there is no fuel in the cylinder regardless of pump and pressure.

I will start w fuse 5, then fuel return and then injectors. I didn’t glue anything when  changing HES, hope it’s not that. If nothing works I will get a timing light and follow your steps.  
thank you for the help.

 

chris

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Chausvik said:

Dirt rider, that was a lot to check but I will start from the top. I did try different throttle positions while turning over the motor and other than a quicker rotation w throttle pulled still no change.  I didn’t pull the fuse this time around so will try this first. Also, I will check spark again. Last spark issue fixed itself after throttle pull.  The fuel pump is starting up, before changing HES I checked fuel line pressure and it’s there. I didn’t check injectors, how do I do that (I can look on YouTube)? The motor truly sounds and feels like there is no fuel in the cylinder regardless of pump and pressure.

I will start w fuse 5, then fuel return and then injectors. I didn’t glue anything when  changing HES, hope it’s not that. If nothing works I will get a timing light and follow your steps.  
thank you for the help.

 

chris

Morning Chris

 

Make sure that your side stand is UP.

 

You can probably do a quick (ignition timing close check)  by turning the key to on, then turning the front pulley CCW (Counter Clock Wise on the 1100 ) while listening for the fuel pump to trigger on. It should trigger on very close to TDC. It will also probably trigger again at 180° from TDC.

 

You can easily check for injector commanded pulse (but not actual fuel spray) by plugging a NOID light into one of injector connectors. Most auto parts stores carry cheap NOID lights, you just need to find the one that fits your injector connector.  

 

To check the injectors (actually you only need to check one side) you can remove one of the injectors, then with the fuel line & wires hooked to the injector point it into container then crank the engine over using the starter looking for injector spray. Caution: be very careful of fire as that injector spray can be very flamable.   

[Chausvik]

Dirt rider, just checked injectors and no spray. Fuel pump works and pushed fuel through line. Should I spend the time cleaning the injectors since they are out or move on since we know it was working before? Maybe clean them to see if they will open w power.

 

chris

[dirtrider]

23 minutes ago, Chausvik said:

Dirt rider, just checked injectors and no spray. Fuel pump works and pushed fuel through line. Should I spend the time cleaning the injectors since they are out or move on since we know it was working before? Maybe clean them to see if they will open w power.

 

chris

Morning  chris

 

It never hurts to clean older injectors but dirty injectors doesn't sound like your problem. 

 

Fuel pump works and pushed fuel through line.-- What line is it pushing fuel through? You need to see fuel coming out of the fuel return line coming from the rear. Just having low pressure, or no pressure, fuel flowing out of a line is usually not enough to start the engine.

 

You should also stick a NOID light in one of the injector connectors then crank the engine over with the starter to see IF the fueling computer is commanding an injection pulse. 

 

With no fuel coming out of the injectors during engine cranking that usually means that either not enough fuel flow at enough pressure to spray through the injectors, OR  the fueling computer is not properly triggering the injectors. 

 

 

[Chausvik]

I will find a noid light to see if electricity is going to injector connections. Fuel is running through the lines from the fuel pump everytime it’s activated (both lines). I felt slight pressure but no spray when I was testing the injectors and will do a proper flush.