2019 Hiccup

[Rougarou]

Filling up yesterday, of course, I turn the bike off, fuel up, then go to start it.  Bike did a clunk, slow start sound, then nothing.  The reaction seemed to be similar to one of those hot Chevy starters where they don't wanna start when hot. 

 

Also, on the second attempt, I get a rear brake light out, seek service, or something like that.

 

So, I press the button to turn the bike off, give it a few seconds, then press it back on, after the screen pops on, bike starts as normal.  Started as normal this morning and afternoon rides.  No messages, no nothing.

 

I have had some times where I go to start it and it did a single turnover then stop.  Hit the start button again and starts fine.

 

Guesses

[Hosstage]

Check the battery cables, all ends.

Check voltage on the battery as long as you're at it.

 

Edited for spelling.

[Rougarou]

wil do

[MikeB60]

How old is the battery? Sounds like it's on the way out.

[Rougarou]

6 minutes ago, MikeB60 said:

How old is the battery? Sounds like it's on the way out.

 

original to the bike, got the bike October 2018, meh, could be.  Just odd that once I reset the bike, it cranked as normal.

[wbw6cos]

I had very similar issues on my 3 year old OEM battery on the RT.  When I went to fuel up, it did not want to start.  I waited about 10 minutes to give it a  chance to revive  itself, which worked. I replaced it with a cheap inexpensive amazon battery, which did not last long either; it still showed the symptoms as previous battery did.  I went ahead and installed a pigtail for the jump box.  Bought and installed a Yuasa, which arrived dry.  Added the juice and fully charged it.   So far, so good.

 

Yeah, all my cables were good, clean and tight.

[Hosstage]

Batteries are funny things. Seen a lot of tails chased when it couldn't possibly be the battery. Then it was the battery.

Rougarou, your symptoms present as loose cables first, then battery, then maybe starter, but doubtful, those are pretty robust.

Then?

[Hosstage]

Whoops, didn't meant quote myself, just edit.

[wbw6cos]

just hide it

[Hosstage]

Hidden

[chrisolson]

54 minutes ago, Hosstage said:

Forgot about that option. Thank you.

 

 

If its within 24 hours from the initial post ( as in this case) ... you can truly delete rather than hide ... 

 

but either way ...

 

 

 

[szurszewski]

That sounds like a dying AGM battery and the reset you got could be from low voltage. 

 

I'd bet a good doughnut that replacing the battery, and checking all the connections while you're doing that, will make this go away. Closing in on five years for the battery, even if it isn't failing now it's pretty likely it will soon. 

[dirtrider]

15 hours ago, Rougarou said:

Filling up yesterday, of course, I turn the bike off, fuel up, then go to start it.  Bike did a clunk, slow start sound, then nothing.  The reaction seemed to be similar to one of those hot Chevy starters where they don't wanna start when hot. 

 

Also, on the second attempt, I get a rear brake light out, seek service, or something like that.

 

So, I press the button to turn the bike off, give it a few seconds, then press it back on, after the screen pops on, bike starts as normal.  Started as normal this morning and afternoon rides.  No messages, no nothing.

 

I have had some times where I go to start it and it did a single turnover then stop.  Hit the start button again and starts fine.

 

Guesses

Morning Rougarou

 

Guesses are about all we can provide without some voltage drop tests during engine cranking & a good (thorough) battery load test.  

 

The way your problem suddenly appeared then went away sort of points to one or both compression releases not working correctly, possibly in conjunction with a somewhat low output battery. 

 

Even with a somewhat limited battery they will usually crank OK once the starter gets the crankshaft spinning. If a compression release is not working correctly then a weak battery just can't get it spinning far enough to get through the first compression stroke.   

 

If the problem happens again before you find the root of the problem then try putting the transmission in high gear, then bumping the motorcycle backward enough to rotate the engine backwards about a revolution. 

 

THEN, try starting it again, if that helps the starting then that engine reversal probably allowed the starter to give the crankshaft a running start before it hit high compression.   

 

Or let it sit for a while as that allows the compression from the first (failed starting try) to bleed off so the starter can then sometimes get it over the initial compression hump. 

 

 

 

 

[Rougarou]

Sorry, it's been some time now and I've still not metered the battery,...busy with the chicken coop and all but, here's the weird thing.  I've noticed that the bike only hiccups when I fill up.

 

So, I've made errand runs and ridden to work many times since I first posted and the only time that it'll play wonk-wonk then turn fully over is after a fill up, but not every fill up.

 

Did it again today.  Turn the bike off, two minutes filling the tank, press the on button, let it self check, then wonk-wonk-full crank up.

 

Could there be some sort of vapor issue along with a compression issue?  If it's those compression releases, what's the fix?

 

D.R., I'ma have to fill up again in three days, I'ma video the start up at the fuel farm and see if it does it again.  The fill up is at the end of a 50 mile commute home.

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, Rougarou said:

Sorry, it's been some time now and I've still not metered the battery,...busy with the chicken coop and all but, here's the weird thing.  I've noticed that the bike only hiccups when I fill up.

 

So, I've made errand runs and ridden to work many times since I first posted and the only time that it'll play wonk-wonk then turn fully over is after a fill up, but not every fill up.

 

Did it again today.  Turn the bike off, two minutes filling the tank, press the on button, let it self check, then wonk-wonk-full crank up.

 

Could there be some sort of vapor issue along with a compression issue?  If it's those compression releases, what's the fix?

 

D.R., I'ma have to fill up again in three days, I'ma video the start up at the fuel farm and see if it does it again.  The fill up is at the end of a 50 mile commute home.

Morning Rougarou

 

If you can get it to act up repeatably then you can put a voltmeter on the battery posts then ride it until it acts up, THEN see what your cranking voltage is during the no-start event. 

 

I can't imagine that anything done during the actual fill-up would effect starting other than the short time between hot engine shutdown & hot engine restart. 

 

You will probably need to start with a good (reliable) battery load test just to eliminate any battery issue. 

 

Verify that both battery cables are tight on the battery posts.

 

You might end up having to do (hot engine) voltage drop tests on the starting circuit battery cables. 

 

I really don't know what to tell you on the compression releases but if you can't find a smoking gun in the electricals side you are probably going to have to somehow verify those are working. 

 

If you can get it to the point that it acts up cold then it will much easier to find as you can work on it at home while cold.  This hot thing really limits your window for troubleshooting. 

 

What happens if: after you get home from a ride, you turn it off for the same time that it takes to fill the tank, THEN try to restart it? 

[Rougarou]

Thanks much D.R.

 

To your last question, I've actually done that on a couple of occasions.  After the fill up, I rode home (about five minute run), parked the bike, turned it off, took my gear off, then gave her a re-start and it fired right up.

 

I've ridden it fully to work (50 mile commute) and de-geared and same thing, bike fires right up.

 

I've not had any issues other than the fuel farm starts.

 

Hopefully, I can crack the battery area open and get some numbers this evening.

 

Battery is original, bike bought in Octoberish 2019, so only four years of use.  I've no other issues with power, bike does not sit on a tender during it's "week off" and starts just fine on it's "week on".

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, Rougarou said:

Thanks much D.R.

 

To your last question, I've actually done that on a couple of occasions.  After the fill up, I rode home (about five minute run), parked the bike, turned it off, took my gear off, then gave her a re-start and it fired right up.

 

I've ridden it fully to work (50 mile commute) and de-geared and same thing, bike fires right up.

 

I've not had any issues other than the fuel farm starts.

 

Hopefully, I can crack the battery area open and get some numbers this evening.

 

Battery is original, bike bought in Octoberish 2019, so only four years of use.  I've no other issues with power, bike does not sit on a tender during it's "week off" and starts just fine on it's "week on".

Afternoon Rougarou

 

Any difference in how you park the bike at the fuel stop vs home,  like side stand vs center stand, etc? 

[Rougarou]

3 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Rougarou

 

Any difference in how you park the bike at the fuel stop vs home,  like side stand vs center stand, etc? 

 

Ya, I'm sitting on the bike while filling up, but the bike goes on the sidestand at the house/work,......I kinda can't sit on it all the time

[dirtrider]

21 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

 

Ya, I'm sitting on the bike while filling up, but the bike goes on the sidestand at the house/work,......I kinda can't sit on it all the time

Afternoon Rougarou

 

Maybe as a quick test try to duplicate that same upright time when you get home. 

[Rougarou]

Did the sit on test when I got home, bike started fine

 

12.96 volts sittin drops to 9.8 when starting

[dirtrider]

24 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

Did the sit on test when I got home, bike started fine

 

12.96 volts sittin drops to 9.8 when starting

Evening Rougarou

 

Those numbers look OK, but it is also starting OK. You really to somehow catch it when it won't start. 

[Rougarou]

30 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Evening Rougarou

 

Those numbers look OK, but it is also starting OK. You really to somehow catch it when it won't start. 

 

Yep, replicate the issue is going to be the actual issue

 

Thanks much

[Rougarou]

Here's a "hmmmm".  This fuel farm that I fill up at has a slight decline.  So, with my short self, I ride up, leave the bike in first and roll back to take the slack outta it and hold the bike in gear while off.

 

The last two fill ups, I tippy-toed holding the bike in place in neutral.

 

Neither time did the bike falter in starting.

 

Could that slight roll back turn the pistons ever so much that it makes for a more difficult start?

 

Replicating at the house, bike is on flat ground so no need to back the bike up in first to hold it.

 

I dunno

 

Oh, and I do the same with the RT, hold it in first, slight back up and there's no issues starting that bike