Cardo Subscription Plan

[Skywagon]

Not sure if this has been covered or not.    I know there was a thread on cars.  Looks like Cardo going to at least partial subscription service.

 

Cardo Issues Explanation Of Plan For Packtalk Custom - Adventure Rider (advrider.com)

[RandyShields]

7 hours ago, Skywagon said:

Looks like Cardo going to at least partial subscription service.

I can't help but think that this will be a colossal failure for Cardo -- as it should be.

[wbw6cos]

From the article, I get the feeling they are having regerts based on feedback they have experienced.   

 

We will see if sales dictate the direction they choose. 

[strataj]

I was talking with Bob's BMW yesterday, this practice seems to be growing. You don't own anything, you lease/rent it.  He mention that Honda is offering a heated seat option that you pay for by subscription.  Klim offers a subscription to Air Bag Vests, missing a payment when you needed it would suck.  I hate it and won't support it in any way. 

[MachineJoe]

The Bean Counters at Cardo will not pass this. They will, like other companies continue to massage it until it's more palatable.

[lkraus]

99.9% of the time I ride alone.  The communicator is used mainly for GPS instructions and music.  I've answered maybe four phone calls in the ten years I've used a Sena.  I've used the intercom a dozen times with a passenger. The basic, non-subscription, functions on the Cardo Custom would handle all that, plus allow for mesh communications if I did join up with a group.

 

 

 

I think the Custom will cost about $80-130 less than a comparable Cardo Edge or Sena 50S.  That would cover many months of fees for the rare (so far, zero) times I might want to use the extra features in the future. If I needed all the bells and features, all the time, the Edge is still an option.  

It would be nice if Cardo also offered a one-time upgrade option ($Edge price -$Custom price) for those who tried out the extra features and decided they wanted them available all the time.

 

If Cardo was charging monthly fees while still charging full price for an Edge, I could understand all the fuss. But they are offering a less expensive option that is still very useful PLUS can be upgraded temporarily on an as-needed basis.

 

[Lowndes]

48 minutes ago, lkraus said:

99.9% of the time I ride alone.  The communicator is used mainly for GPS instructions and music.  I've answered maybe four phone calls in the ten years I've used a Sena.  I've used the intercom a dozen times with a passenger. The basic, non-subscription, functions on the Cardo Custom would handle all that, plus allow for mesh communications if I did join up with a group.

 

I agree with Larry.  I ride alone maybe 50%, very seldom use the phone mode, never music.  I don't use the GPS audio if I can figure out how to turn it off.  My last two remaining brain cells get confused with too much going on while trying to stay upright on my side of the road.

 

Another angle to consider here:  ALL of the "features" in the gold and platinum packages are built into each unit at the factory.  They are simply turned ON/OFF by a signal from HQ.  You have already paid for the hardware and software AND the ability to turn it ON/OFF when you buy the unit.  From what I see there is nothing in these "features" that is run thru HQ where they would actively manage the feature other than turning it ON/OFF.  It's not like an ISP or cell phone service that has to actively monitor and continuously provide "features" from FROM HQ and that are not from my hardware/software.  

 

Bottom line (for me): it's just a money grab, a new revenue stream for Cardo for minimal effort/expendature.

 

We've already paid for the hardware and software and are required to continuously pay even more to have a few "features" turned ON and OFF.  

[Skywagon]

Personally think it sucks...I do understand Larry's point of view, but suspect once you subscribe it will be forever as I would forget to unsubscribe.  What's next?  Cruise control, power brakes, radio, speedometer, electric seats, windows up and down....  I suspect you won't know about the program until you have bought your unit and then will be a bit annoyed.  I doubt if you walk into cyclegear and put one on the counter it would ever be discussed.  I hate leasing anything so I don't.  

[BamaJohn]

seems more and more that a lot of the stuff we "need" are not mandatory....like a $2000 cell phone or Ala Carte cars, trucks, and bikes.  just sayin'

[Hosstage]

My son-in-law says his aunt on Long Island still leases her land line phone from the phone company, an old school Bell Telephone (Western Electric probably) that is hardwired in the hallway where it's been for the last 70 years. 

Now that is fighting the growth of technology!

[terryofperry]

I've contacted Cardo and received a reply. My comment was lengthy as was the reply, I won't post it here. I was told to rest assured, all other products will continue to be available for riders wishing to purchase those products. If that is the case, I'm fine, if not, I will look elsewhere.

 

Terry

[Rougarou]

5 hours ago, Hosstage said:

My son-in-law says his aunt on Long Island still leases her land line phone from the phone company, an old school Bell Telephone (Western Electric probably) that is hardwired in the hallway where it's been for the last 70 years. 

Now that is fighting the growth of technology!

 

How often does that go down?

 

At work, they swapped to VoIPs,.....so, ya, when you actually need to make a call,........networks down  Ever since the swap to VoIPs, scam calls and telemarketers galore.  When we were on standard copper, none of our individual desk phones were "public".  If I called you, it wouldn't even say my company name.  Now, if I call you, my desk number appears.

 

Coincidence, I dunno, but I do have six lines in the building that are still POTS and not a scam or telemarketer rings those,.....hmmmm.

 

Oh, to keep it on topic, it stoopid what Cardo wants to do.

[RTinNC]

Interesting for sure!   Like Lowndes noted I use my Sena for communication with other bikes and THAT is all.  Never pair to my phone as I don't need any more distractions.  If I want music I will ride the RT and listen to the audio.  BUT ... subscription seems to be the wave of the future with car and motorcycle manufactures already providing subscription service for certain accessories.  This seems to be coming whether we like it or not and from the manufacturer perspective and pocketbook it makes sense.  I just hate it. 

[9Mary7]

10 hours ago, RTinNC said:

manufacturers already providing subscription service for certain accessories.

Your wording suggests a consumer demand......... I don't think there is any.

[RTinNC]

8 minutes ago, 9Mary7 said:

Your wording suggests a consumer demand......... I don't think there is any.

Agree ... no customer demand but the manufacturers are still moving forward.  Kind of like electric vehicles ... we may not want them but they seem to be moving forward. 

BMW autos not have subscriptions for select "electronic" options ... heated steering wheel, lane departure, etc.  When you think about it from the manufacturers perspective it makes sense.  They built the cars all the same and then simply turn on or off the features you subscribe to.  I believe it was Ducati who was doing something similar ... giving you 90 days of ownership to use the features free and then after 90 days you have the option of buying the feature.   The world is moving to the subscription design and if you think about it it means cash flow forever for the seller.  No ... I don't believe there is a demand but it seems customer demand may not matter.  Let's hope it fails. 

[EdM]

I disagree with requiring a subscription fee to keep a feature of a product active. A subscription is only justified if the company is providing some sort of service for that fee. Is Cardo doing something in the background that justifies paying eternally for those features? I doubt it other than software updates which have always been provided. Buy the version you want and own it outright, even if it is an upgrade option to activate the premium features, but no ongoing ransom to keep them available.

[9Mary7]

6 hours ago, RTinNC said:

 I believe it was Ducati who was doing something similar

It's KTM......

[RTinNC]

33 minutes ago, 9Mary7 said:

It's KTM......

YES !!  Thank you!   I knew it was a European brand.  

[wbw6cos]

Well Ducati does have their name in CARDO.    Comes in red.  Go figure.  

[9Mary7]

I saw that the other day....... I'm sure the red paint costs extra

[wbw6cos]

I am thinking about how to disassemble my Black to make it Mars Red Metallic.  

[Skywagon]

4 hours ago, 9Mary7 said:

I'm sure the red paint costs extra

It’s a monthly fee. If you stop paying it turns into a green Ural 

[Lowndes]

12 hours ago, wbw6cos said:

I am thinking about how to disassemble my Black to make it Mars Red Metallic.  

Five T7 screws in the back plate.  EZPZ.

 

Careful cause the battery is stuck to the back plate and the very short leads are soldered to the MB that is screwed to the front plare with two more T7 screws.  If your battery is getting old,  won't hold much charge, or is beginning to swell, I found a source for replacement batteries (with no monthly fees).

 

 

 

It would be easy to mask off the matt area around the "button board" on the face and spray it Mars Red to match.

 

 

[BamaJohn]

McGiver stuff right there.......Was your battery not holding a charge, or why did you decide to dig into the inner sanctum Lowndes?  

[Lowndes]

 

 

Good morning, John!!  To see what was in there!!

 

And, of course, William asked how to disassemble it.  

 

It doesn't qualify as McGuiver stuff, just screwdriver stuff.  The magic is on the MB.  You just have to be careful to not let the smoke out of anything on the MB.

 

I'd already taken mine apart before to get the numbers for the battery.  Randy had said his was getting weak and I have two of the original Packtalk Scala Rider units with the original batteries that are 6-7 years old (but are updated with the same firmware as the Black and, BTW, are interchangable/identical to the Black, that I carry as backup for myself and anyone else in the group).  Two new batteries are on the way.  Stand by for more!!

 

OEM battery in the Scala Rider:

 

 

 

 

 

[RTinNC]

WOW ... In addition to my new Sena 50 I have a 8 or 10 year old Sena 10s whose battery still lasts a good 12+ hour day.   Are battery issues that common on the Card units? 

[Lowndes]

Good Morning, Ed!!

 

Battery issues are common on everything.

 

 

Lowndes

 

 

Actually it depends on a lot of variables and the luck of the draw.  Some are dead out of the box.  Over time the L-ion batteries will lose their ability to hold a charge, i.e. the Cardo  "Low Battery" warning will sound sooner and sooner.  Google says "300 to 500 charge cycles" for L-ion, but low or high temps will degrade it faster.  So, only ride when its between 72° and 74°F and it will last "longer".  Hope this helps!!

 

 

Lowndes

[RTinNC]

4 minutes ago, Lowndes said:

Good Morning, Ed!!

 

Battery issues are common on everything.

 

 

Lowndes

 

 

Actually it depends on a lot of variables and the luck of the draw.  Some are deadout of the box.  Over time the L-ion batteries will lose their ability to hold a charge, i.e. the Cardo  "Low Battery" warning will sound sooner and sooner.  Google says "300 to 500 charge cycles" for L-ion, but low or high temps will degrade it faster.  So, only ride when its between 72° and 74°F and it will last "longer".  Hope this helps!!

 

 

Lowndes

 

Thanks!   My experience with L-ion batteries has been very good and maybe I was just lucky.  I am only aware of one of my riding buddies who has had any issues with the Sena units except for the built in units which just seem to have a much shorter run time.   Also,  maybe my usage is just different.  I do use my Sena every time I ride with a buddy (which is about 75% of the time)  and use only to converse.  But in most all cases the battery lasts all day and as noted most are 8 or more years old and going strong.  I guess I figure after that long I have gotten my use out of the unit and just simply buying a new updated version would be reasonable.   I have the new 50 along with my aging 10s and really enjoy the ease of the mesh. 

[9Mary7]

52 minutes ago, RTinNC said:

I have the new 50 along

Thanks for the info as I'm getting ready to upgrade my 10 year old Sena 10c....

[RTinNC]

32 minutes ago, 9Mary7 said:

Thanks for the info as I'm getting ready to upgrade my 10 year old Sena 10c....

I loved my very old 10s but the new 50 with mesh is so easy to pair I really like it.  Hope you find the same. 

[Skywagon]

I replaced the battery in my SENA a couple years ago. It would only hold for a couple hours riding. SENA said non-replaceable, must buy a new unit. Liar liar pants on fire. Bought a battery and with a 3 minute solder job good as new…. Actually better as found more Mah battery for ~$7-8 if I remember correctly. 

[Bernie]

On 3/19/2023 at 7:50 AM, wbw6cos said:

I am thinking about how to disassemble my Black to make it Mars Red Metallic.  

No need to disassemble the unit. Just get your wife’s lipstick and paint it. Just don’t have it touch your shirt collar. 🤣

[Bernie]

By the way Bob’s BMW has the Cardo Edge on sale and if you are a AMA member you can also receive a discount. Just saying!

[Skywagon]

9Mary7… don’t buy the 20s EVO. It works ok but the volume is significantly less than the 10. A known problem. I have all the updates, have tried all recommended settings, etc and the volume still sucks. Near the top of the volume it distorts as well. 

[RTinNC]

Yes ... if you are upgrading go for the 50 with Mesh technology.  You will thank me later. :-) 

[wbw6cos]

1 hour ago, Bernie said:

No need to disassemble the unit. Just get your wife’s lipstick and paint it. Just don’t have it touch your shirt collar. 🤣

 

 

Won't match as it is mostly pink.   Besides, I could get beat up on the playground if I show up with it colored like that.  

[Bernie]

16 minutes ago, wbw6cos said:

 

 

Won't match as it is mostly pink.   Besides, I could get beat up on the playground if I show up with it colored like that.  

I thought you would use the lipstick from your girl friend. You think she really would notice????

As for your riding buds, don't worry about their comments, you can't hear them on the intercom anyway. Remember you don't have that "subscription"!

[Lowndes]

Bernie said:

"I thought you would use the lipstick from your girl friend. You think she really would notice????"

 

NO - BUT HIS WIFE WOULD!!

 

Just telling for a friend.

 

Best use the wife's.  I'd rather get beat up on the playground than in the kitchen.  On the playground there's no drawer full of steak knikes.

[Lowndes]

Batteries arrived today.  They even say for Crdo Scala Rider.  And NO subscription fee.

 

Pretty, but there's work to do.

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like to splice in a connector on the old leads if there's any room.  Not interested in soldering on the MB so I'll just use the old battery leads.

 

 

More later.

[Skywagon]

Lowndes....on my SENA I wanted connectors too, but no room.  I just cut the wires on the mother board about halfway down and did a quick solder.  I stagger the cut so they aren't next to each other.  Then I dab a little bit of liquid electrical tape.

[Rougarou]

17 hours ago, Skywagon said:

9Mary7… don’t buy the 20s EVO. It works ok but the volume is significantly less than the 10. A known problem. I have all the updates, have tried all recommended settings, etc and the volume still sucks. Near the top of the volume it distorts as well. 

 

Ya, the music volume sucks, but when you answer a phone call, it'll rattle the helmet,......just odd.  

[Lowndes]

11 hours ago, Skywagon said:

...  I just cut the wires on the mother board about halfway down and did a quick solder.  I stagger the cut so they aren't next to each other.  Then I dab a little bit of liquid electrical tape.

 

David - I just found this vid on replacing the battery and resealing the Cardo case.  Excellent video quality, soldering skills, and methods.  Made it look easy.  Resealing looked a little messy with RTV.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpOXFPdhbto&t=935s

 

The problem I've encountered with splicing and adding connectors is the solder joints in the wires are very stiff.   Some solder flows out between the copper strands plus the extra insulation and you have to plan ahead so one of these splices doesn't end up where you need to put a U-bend in the wires.  I'm thinking an aluminum jig to hold the two wires steady and act as a heatsink to prevent the solder travel.  Your liquid tape would be ideal insulation, much more flexible than spagetti or tape.

[EdM]

I've replaced the batteries in all three Sena units we have, a pair of 20Ss and a 10S. The batteries came from Amazon and were cheap and have better life than the originals did even new. No soldering or splicing required as the battery simply plugs in with a connector to the board. It's an easy ten minute job to change them once you know how to open it up. 

[RTinNC]

WOW ... good to know.  Hope the 50 is as easy to replace!    My ten year old 10s still lasts a good 12 hour day but nice to know it's an easy change.