Adaptive Cruise Control question - group riding

[T-88]

Hi, folks:

 

I used to hang out here when I had my beloved ‘14 R1200RT, but am now on a (ack!) Gold Wing forum.

 

I have a BMW ACC question:  Does the BMW R1250RT owner’s manual ADVISE AGAINST USING ACC WHEN RIDING IN A MOTORCYCLE GROUP?

 

The reason I ask this bizarre (to me) question is a member on my Wing forum just posted an excerpt from his KTM 1290 manual, showing the operator should not use ACC in group riding.

 

Is there the same advisory for BMW’s ACC?  Seems weird to me.

 

(I did a quick search on the forum and found nothing on this topic.)

 

Tim

 

 

[Hosstage]

I would agree with that advice. Things happen much too quickly to be complacent using ACC, or even cruise in general. Maybe ACC if spread out on a very open two-lane and on a long distance run, depending on the size of the group. In traffic, not for me.

In fact, when riding in traffic or on a group ride that starts to tighten up a bit, I always run a gear short. Where 5th gear might be the right gear based on speed, I run 4th gear based on control.

[60Aviator]

Bunch of warnings in the owner's manual but not one for motorcycle groups.

[wbw6cos]

I seem to recall reading a review, somewhere, about the ACC not seeing the bike in front.  Staggered formation may be a reason.  

[szurszewski]

30 minutes ago, wbw6cos said:

I seem to recall reading a review, somewhere, about the ACC not seeing the bike in front.  Staggered formation may be a reason.  

 

That would be my _guess_ - but not necessarily just because of staggered formation, but maybe because the ACC isn't as good at seeing bikes as it is at seeing cars. Or they're just erring toward safety knowing that group riding is often done too tightly with riders that make unexpected speed changes. I don't really like to ride in groups anyway - partly because of what others might do, but also because it puts more pressure on me than I like to make sure I'm not causing problems - and maybe for that reason I can't imagine wanting to use ACC in such a situation. 

[Daveyator]

As I said in a previous post, the beam seems to have a fairly narrow field of view. Would make sense to not use it trying to follow another motorcycle.

[T-88]

I’ll respectfully beg to differ.

 

I would try it on a group ride to determine for myself whether the BMW ACC has any limitations.

 

So, there’s nobody here with a new RT fitted with ACC and has used in in a group ride??

 

I find the narrow field of view a puzzling hypothesis.  My ‘18 Audi A4 has ACC, and it safely and effectively can follow a motorcycle.

 

I’m still curious to hear from RT owners who have used their ACC in group ride situations.

 

Tim

[wbw6cos]

It is possible, that in a group ride, the ACC will function when a rider in front will enter in the "beam."  The way bikes move in turns, I am guessing that the bike in front will cross that beam while on his line.  The ACC may interpret that crossing and react accordingly. 

 

But seriously, who uses the cruise control in a group ride?   I use it on occasion on some straights to allow the wrist to get some relief, but low and behold, Chris will end up getting a few more seconds (a lot!) ahead, so I gotta keep up and need to roll on the throttle.  So it doesn't stay on for long.  

 

Some feedback with folks on the bikes with ACC in use on a group ride would help this hijacking of a thread (by me.)  

[T-88]

I’m not here to debate the pros and cons of the use of ACC in group rides or otherwise.

 

I can tell you where I live in Alberta, it’s essentially 4-1/2 hours’ more or less 4-lane divided highway to anything resembling a corner.  I ride with friends who own RTs and GS/GSAs, all of which are equipped with CC and there are plenty of instances when traveling with this group, cruising speed varies.

 

Again, nobody on this forum has an R1250RT with ACC who can comment on it’s real world functionality in group riding?
 

Tim

[9Mary7]

2 hours ago, T-88 said:

nobody on this forum has an R1250RT with ACC who can comment on it’s real world functionality in group riding

Correct.

[T-88]

Looks like this forum has changed a lot since I resided here (2014-2019) when there were lots of folks discussing the ins and outs of their new bikes.

 

Thanks again.

 

Tim

 

 

[Hosstage]

Well, it's only been a few hours since you posted your question, it might take a while for those with new bikes with ACC to chime in with their experience.

How long has ACC been offered on new bikes? How many people on this forum own one of those new bikes? How many of them ride in groups? How many of those have tried ACC when riding in those groups?

Give it a few days before you condemn a whole forum that has some really knowledgeable members that are willing to share. 

[Hati]

10 hours ago, T-88 said:

Again, nobody on this forum has an R1250RT with ACC who can comment on it’s real world functionality in group riding?

 

Some of us have to work and/or are in a different time zone :P 

 

I have an RT with ACC and yes, have used in in group rides. It works. Hell it even picks up bicycles which is a real pain because it is usually a considerable speed difference so the bike will brake quite hard.

 

As far as cars are concerned, no issues. I, personally, had no issues in group rides either, but the one group I occasionally ride with is mostly people who have got aggression out of their system so it's never a race. Spirited, yes, racy, never. The beam is narrow. so bike to the left in front can drop out in a left hander (riding on the left mind) but generally is not an issue. The ACC is an aid , not an attention replacement device.

 

11 hours ago, wbw6cos said:

But seriously, who uses the cruise control in a group ride?

 

With ACC, everybody who has ever tried it. Because it works and it is THAT good. You should try it one day, but not for 5 minutes, but an hour or more. Watch yourself change your mind then ;)

[Hosstage]

When the ACC activates the brakes, as mentioned a hard brake due to a bicycle (which sounds dangerous, especially to those riding behind), does the brake light come on?

[wbw6cos]

Yes. The brake light will activate. 

[9Mary7]

[T-88]

10 hours ago, Hosstage said:

Well, it's only been a few hours since you posted your question, it might take a while for those with new bikes with ACC to chime in with their experience.

How long has ACC been offered on new bikes? How many people on this forum own one of those new bikes? How many of them ride in groups? How many of those have tried ACC when riding in those groups?

Give it a few days before you condemn a whole forum that has some really knowledgeable members that are willing to share. 

Thanks for your reply.  

Hey, I mistakenly thought this forum was like the days when I was a member here (and like my Gold Wing forum now) where everyone is retired and they have no lives, so they spend 24/7 on the forum when not riding.  Lol.  I didn’t mean to sound like I was condemning the forum.  Apologies.

 

I guess I’m wrongly assuming this forum is similar to my Wing forum. There is a regular influx of new members eager to publicly share their discoveries on their new Wings, such as those who’ve bought DCT transmissions for the first time. I would have thought there’d be at least a few people who had RTs with ACC who would similarly be eager to share their observations on this new technology.

 

I’ll keep checking back.

 

As a follow up, I posted a similar query on the Advrider forum. A fellow responded to my question, saying he rented a new R1250RT, went on a 2,000 mile tour in which he followed his friend on a GSA for 95-percent of the time, and the BMW ACC worked without issue.

 

Thanks again.

 

Tim

 

 

[strataj]

I have a 22R1250RT with ACC.  I like it.  It doesn't work when riding true staggered. I ride more towards the center of the lane when riding staggered, you can see an image so you know it's picking up the bike.  Like any time you MUST keep focused on the road/ride, we have all heard stories about Tesla.  Riding is a group the ACC will keep the same distance between bikes, to me that's great because the regular CC would need to be disengaged or speed up too often for me so I didn't use it.  

[EdM]

I don't ride in groups much but do ride with my wife on her bike frequently. In the past with my GT, I use the CC when I'm in the lead, but not when following her. My new RT has this feature and I was wondering if it would function to keep pace when following her. Of course, rider awareness and attention are always paramount when following another vehicle or motorcycle. I'm in Alberta too, so will be waiting a few more weeks (months) to be able to test it out.

[szurszewski]

1 hour ago, T-88 said:

There is a regular influx of new members

 

Joined in 2014? Here that makes YOU the influx of new members. I still feel like a newb here, and I joined a couple of years before you... ;)

 

 

[Hati]

9 hours ago, Hosstage said:

hard brake due to a bicycle (which sounds dangerous, especially to those riding behind)

 

Define your term for "hard braking". I have done emergency braking training on my RT so I can assure you it's not emergency breaking level hard. 

My definition of hard is more like twice the engine braking performance, probably using the word "abrupt" would be better than "hard".

 

It's a dangerous thing to form opinions based on what you imagine is happening, opposed to trying it first hand and THEN make up your mind. You can grossly mislead yourself like that.

[Hati]

6 hours ago, T-88 said:

I would have thought there’d be at least a few people who had RTs with ACC who would similarly be eager to share their observations on this new technology.

 

I have my '21 for nearly 2 years now. Shared my experience many times. Gets a bit old  repeating yourself when a little forums search would bring up what I (and many others) have said over the last year or so, or heaven forbid, look up other forums as well ;)

[T-88]

44 minutes ago, Hati said:

 

I have my '21 for nearly 2 years now. Shared my experience many times. Gets a bit old  repeating yourself when a little forums search would bring up what I (and many others) have said over the last year or so, or heaven forbid, look up other forums as well ;)

Yup. I said I did a search in my original post, but thanks for the reminder. 
 

Here’s a screen shot of the results of that search.

 

Tim

 

 

[Hosstage]

35 minutes ago, Hati said:

 

Define your term for "hard braking". I have done emergency braking training on my RT so I can assure you it's not emergency breaking level hard. 

My definition of hard is more like twice the engine braking performance, probably using the word "abrupt" would be better than "hard".

 

It's a dangerous thing to form opinions based on what you imagine is happening, opposed to trying it first hand and THEN make up your mind. You can grossly mislead yourself like that.

I think it might be semantics and we are talking the same thing, I was just using your term of "brake quite hard". The difference being that the action was done by the motorcycle, rather than you, perhaps catching you off guard, perhaps not, and also catching the rider behind you off guard as they (and you) didn't see a hazard that would have warranted an abrupt brake. I'm sure the rider behind you was paying attention and had no issues. No harm, no foul.

I am glad to hear that the system works well for you and that you feel comfortable using it. 

I have used it in the car, it works well usually, but it is not smooth in certain situations, what I would also call "abrupt" braking incidences, so I go to regular cruise or no cruise and know what to expect.

[Hati]

8 hours ago, T-88 said:

I said I did a search in my original post, but thanks for the reminder. 

 

It wasn't a directed dig at you, I just told you how I feel after having shared my experience a good number of times. Have to say the 1250 section is more active on the other forum so perhaps I posted all that there and none here.

[T-88]

Thanks for all the replies and insightful comments, folks.  My questions about ACC have been fully answered.

 

I will now retreat back to the confines of my Gold Wing forum and the geriatric crew there.  

 

Tim