TPMS Problem Non-BMW

[Rinkydink]

I drive a ‘13 Toyota Tundra. I have an odd TPMS problem that has me flummoxed. It illuminates every time I drive on the freeway for longer than say 10-15 minutes. It won’t extinguish until I exit and come to a complete stop. If I don’t drive the freeway it stays off. Back on the freeway, right back on and stays on. All tires including spare are at correct pressures. Tires are 3+ years old with no recent flats, rotation etc. This has got to be something simple that I am just not getting. At 10 years old I figure one of my sensors or it’s battery is crapping out. Diagnosing which one is my dilemma.

 

If in wrong section admins please move accordingly. TIA

[szurszewski]

Our '11 Rav4 had a sensor fail this summer while we were on a roadtrip. Not quite exactly the same symptoms but pretty close. It would work sometimes and not others - thought I figured it out when I found one tire had a sort of slow leak, but nope - not that sensor. Replaced the sensor and it's been fine since. If you can get it to a shop when the light is on they should be able to scan each sensor/wheel independently to see which one is faulty. (We paid $60 total at an independent shop - sensor alone from Toyota is, IIRC, more than that.)

 

ETA: when I was googling this while Laura was driving this summer, I found that the typical life of sensors in Toyotas of that vintage is about ten years...so you and I may both be in for repeats of this situation soon. Had I been at home I would have just bought a whole set and replaced them all, but I didn't want to mess with it on the road (though if I'd know before hand it was only going to be $60 each I probably would have them do them all).

[Skywagon]

Rinkydink..most likely a sensor.  If you have a Discount Tire Store near you, go in and they will scan them.  It's likely they can identify it.  I had very similar thing happen on wifes Lexus (Toyota in disguise).  The left front battery was dying.  I had them change all 4 and recalibrate.  Seems like it was about $150 for all....but I could be off.  Her TPMS would come on below 30 but at highway speeds it would trigger alarm.  Pisses me off the Lexus only has one signal and you can't look at each tire pressure and sensor...  I've owned 4 Tahoes since 2000 and each tire is independently displayed any time I want to see it.  If you are short on things to do and feel like you want to work yourself to death, you could use your spare and rotate through them until you find the culprit or just go to the tire store.

[Rinkydink]

Thanks guys. I really wish they would all just go south and have no TPMS. I’ll just have to change them all at once if I want to fix them. That or some electrical tape over the light. 

[lkraus]

Could be a weak battery or a poor connection within a sensor that works until it has spun at a high speed for a while and breaks the connection, then reconnects when centrifugal force drops. An OBDII scan tool could probably identify which sensor is bad, but perhaps not which wheel it is on. A good tire shop could probably do a road test with their scan tool and identify the faulty sensor.

 

I went through the TPMS hassle a couple weeks ago on our 2011 Camry when the dash showed a solid light, indicating a failure to communicate. My OBDII reader could show me the identifying numbers of the four original sensors, a pressure range (high, low) and that one of them was not producing any signal, but it did not show which wheel.  Our compact spare does not have a sensor.  I could have moved wheels out of range one at a time until I identified the faulty one, but I'd still have to replace at least that one sensor. Eleven years is a pretty good battery life, so it was probably time to replace them all.

 

Dealer wanted $90 per sensor plus ~$95 labor to replace and program new sensors. This car uses sensors that require a scan tool to match them to the ECU. ( I understand that newer cars can recognize new sensors without programming, just change them one at a time and drive a short distance.)  I have a HF tire changer so I considered replacing the sensors myself.  Name brand sensors seem to run about $45 each, off-brands run the same for a whole set, but their reviews aren't great. A decent scan tool for the programming runs about $200-250, and it can also identify which sensor is not working. My other car is newer, and if I can get even 5-6 years out of new sensors on this car, I would never use the tool again, so I elected to have all four sensors replaced at a local tire shop.

 

I've had outstanding service from Discount Tire at shops from Portland, OR to Norfolk, VA and points in between, so I went online, bought the sensors ($60 each, installed) and made an appointment for that afternoon. I was scheduled for 4:15 pm, arrived at 4:05, and was leaving the lot at 4:25.  Yes, I hooked up the OBDII scanner again, they really did change all four sensors.

[roadscholar]

11 hours ago, Rinkydink said:

That or some electrical tape over the light. 

 

My girlfriend has a ‘13 Venza, the TPMS light has been on for a couple months, I told to her to just put tape over the light, she didn’t think it was that funny.

 

Sounds like there’s enough of them for a recall : )

 

As far as identifying which tire, the ‘08 Boxster does but ‘08 Benz (ML320) doesn’t. 

[szurszewski]

13 hours ago, Skywagon said:

Pisses me off the Lexus only has one signal and you can't look at each tire pressure and sensor...  I've owned 4 Tahoes since 2000 and each tire is independently displayed any time I want to see it. 

 

My parents have two Toyotas-  the older one, a 2008 Highlander, will show independent tire pressures for each tire, including the spare, but it doesn't know where each tire is so it's not super helpful. Suprised the Lexus doesn't do that - but maybe they decided it was more than people wanted to know. 

 

Can the Tahoe tell you which position each tire/wheel is in?

[Skywagon]

Yes my Tahoe can tell you which tire and the pressure of each tire anytime you want it.  I usually look at the pressures when I've been running a while.  This morning I aired to 38psi all around with a gauge.  I had a 200 mile highway trip on blacktop.  After a while the were reading 42 on two and 41 on two.

[Red]

TPM is the bane of my existence. 

Bought a 2013 Nissan Altima new in Dec 2012.  Because my Nissan dealer is 130 miles away I bought new set of snow tyres and rims a week after car purchase at a discount tyre place.  Nissan wanted $130 each for sensors so put in discount tyre TPM's.  The tyre place TPM's were about $40.  The shop probably put in the wrong ones.  They never have worked from day one.  The shop said 'it's the law we have to put in TPMs'.  I said fine, you've put in TPM's.  I don't give a shit if they work or not.  Long as you're happy, I'm happy.  I live with the stinking warning light.

Bought a new 2016 Toyota tundra in Dec of 2015.  Went to the same discount tyre joint and got a new set of rims, snow tyres, and TPMs.  They worked flawlessly until fall of 2021.  Couldn't get the warning light to go out.  I just chalked it up to small town (under 3,000) tyre shop.  Same thing this fall.  Error light on.  It'd be nice to know if it's the TPMs or tire shop operator error.

Can the diagnostic equipment determine if the TPMs are functioning as opposed to tyre shop equipment/operator error?  With the Nissan, I get it that the TPMs are never going to work.  I own that decision.  With the Toyota, the TPMs worked for 5 years, then didn't.  How the he!! do you tell if it's shop error or TPM failure?

[GWeldin]

My 2011 Tacoma had similar issues at the nine year mark.  The local Discount Tire shop quickly scanned it and determined it was indeed the sensor.  I had all 4 replaced since the batteries were near the end of life anyhow.  A year later though 2 of the Discount Tire sensors (generic brand) had to be replaced under warranty when they failed.  Discount Tire would only use their brand sensor.  Most tire shops would be happy to do a quick scan, even places like Auto Zone may be able to rent the tool or scan it for free.  My Tacoma did not indicate the actual pressure or what tire was acting up if the light on the dash lit up.  So if the light came on unexpectedly and the tires were good there was no way to indicate which tire sensor was bad.

 

Funny thing about older Toyota trucks is that since I live in Maine, I had an extra set of OEM rims with snow tires but NO sensors.  I'd swap the snow tires and rims over and knowing I will have no TPMS for the months the winter tires are on.  I left my summer tires (with the sensors) in the garage in close proximity to the truck.  In the winter, when starting my truck, the system would recognize the sensors since they were near enough to be read by the truck---so the TPMS light would not illuminate on the dash indicating there was an issue.  It is not until I was 15 miles away before the truck realized there were no tire sensors and started to flash.  After three minutes of flashing (indicating there may be a problem) the light went solid.  So it took some 20 minutes before the system detected an issue, as in 4 missing sensors.  Conversely, I got a new pickup this summer and bought an extra set of OEM rims and winter tires---but this time with sensors.  My Sierra instantly recognized the winter set with no programming needed.  Technology, love it or hate it.

[Rinkydink]

A lot of us are old enough to remember motorcycles without temp gauges, gas gauges, and gear indicators. I don’t know how we all survived. How many times were you on the freeway and tried to shift to that one more non existent higher gear?😎

[szurszewski]

6 hours ago, Red said:

The shop said 'it's the law we have to put in TPMs'.  I said fine, you've put in TPM's.  I don't give a shit if they work or not.  Long as you're happy, I'm happy.  I live with the stinking warning light.

It, uh, really doesn’t sound like you’re happy though. 
 

15 minutes ago, Rinkydink said:

How many times were you on the freeway and tried to shift to that one more non existent higher gear?😎

I rented a Harely for the weekend one time and spent the first day wondering why it was revving so high at freeway speeds…because I was having the opposite mental problem: it didn’t occurs to me that there WAS a sixth gear.

[Lowndes]

 Here is a happier note on TPMS!! 

 

After having several punctures on my bikes and having three riders in my group go down (two directly in front of me, no injuries) for no other reason than tire pressures, I started looking into aftermarket TPMS.  None of my old bikes came with TPMS, so they had to be aftermarket.  

 

The first one I tried was the FOBO system that uses your cell phone as the display for the tire temps and pressures and externally Schrader-stem mounted sensors.  Found out the cell phone is NOT the best way to display, but had a lively discussion with several techs at FOBO on the tire temp readings.  I had a concern that a sensor twerling in the breeze, maybe not quite as rapidly as Dennis Andress's knees, but still twerling, at one point in each rotation going twice as fast as the bike's velocity and 180° later doing zero velocity (ground speed).  So how could a temp sensor mounted in this considerable breeze give an accurate measurment of the air in the tire and therefore tire temperature, I asked FOBO.  Not getting any reasonable answers I decided to mount a sensor inside the tire on the other end of the Schrader stem.  They said it was impossible and the signal couldn't penetrate the tire or wheel but I did it anyway and it worked just fine, BUT, it doesn't make much difference (unless there is a puncture) as the temp is directly related to pressure and vice versa.  I'm sure you remember Gay Lussac's Law from physics class, V1/T1= V2/T2 in Kelvins.

 

Anyway, while discussing all of my findings with the head tech at FOBO, I learned that there are two different sensors and telementry systems used in TPMS systems, the 433MHz and the Bluetooth.  According to FOBO the automotive systems are 433MHz with much longer reading and reporting intervals to lengthen battery life (which could be the reason for a 15 mile travel time before the first reading).  Here's what they said in part:

 

On the whole; your discussion is enlightening and boundering on a catch-22 situation. While I understand that tire temperature is key, but a 433MHz system compromises many aspect as well. The scanning period is long, and you will not get real time data anyway. The 433 MHz sensors are the cheapest in the market, and temp and pressure accuracies are not desirable. Fobo sensors are from GE/sold to Amphenol, and pressure accuracy is +- 0.4psi, and temp accuracy is +- 1 degC.  In short, the Fobo system provides a better overall monitoring of these aspects, eventhough its mounted externally. Getting constant and real update is key to our mission for users. (for your information, the price for the Bluetooth sensor is approx 4X higher than the 433MHz sensor)

 

I hope you see my clarification.

 

 

<image003.jpg>

James Lim

Chief Executive Officer

 

Salutica Allied Solutions Sdn. Bhd.(206341-H)

A Subsidiary of Salutica Berhad

 

3 Jalan Zarib 6

Kawasan Perindustrian Zarib

31500 Lahat Ipoh Perak Malaysia

Direct Line : +605320 6828

Fax : +6053222029  Mobile : +60162335670

visit our website https://www.salutica.com

 

Enough of that stuff.  Bottom line:

 

I standardized on the TMPS systems that have stem mounted sensors and stand-alone displays for all my cars and bikes.  The displays are typically solar charged and have a vibration sensor that turns on the display whenever the bike or car is in motion.  I've never had a problem with the sensors falling off, being stolen, or breaking rubber valve stems on any vehicle.  The sensor batteries last about 18 months on average, are cheap, and are very simple to replace.  The pressure/temp update interval is seconds, not minutes, which is important on bikes especially.  The display shows the (absolute, not gage) pressure (PSI or BAR), temperature (°F or °C) of EACH tire, the battery status and time of day.  Also, you can set Hi and Lo temp and pressure alarms for each individual tire.  All this and the price of the entire kit, display and sensors, is less that the cost of ONE OEM sensor alone, usually $35-$50.  These units have saved me from several potential "learning experiences", cars and bikes.

 

Two wheels:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B8M6PTWY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Four wheels:

https://www.amazon.com/Pressure-Monitoring-Wireless-External-Temperature/dp/B09MYFWRB2/ref=sr_1_4?crid=25VZVMSV45N1N&keywords=tpms&qid=1670167284&s=industrial&sprefix=tpms%2Cindustrial%2C91&sr=1-4

 

[Red]

16 hours ago, szurszewski said:

It, uh, really doesn’t sound like you’re happy though. 
 

I rented a Harely for the weekend one time and spent the first day wondering why it was revving so high at freeway speeds…because I was having the opposite mental problem: it didn’t occurs to me that there WAS a sixth gear.

I'm OK with the Nissan TPM's not working.  I made a conscious decision not to pay Nissan essentially the cost of a tire just for their stinking OEM TPM's.  My Toyota truck on the other hand, I bought TPM's.  They worked for a few years.  Now the outfit who installed them can't get them to work.  No one has said they are malfunctioning.  Their machine is not 'talking' to the truck which talks to the TPM's.  So for that, I am not a happy camper.

[Rougarou]

[wbw6cos]

Is that one of dem old school tire pressure monitors?

[taylor1]

I think it's rectal thermometer  

[Lowndes]

On 12/3/2022 at 6:54 PM, Skywagon said:

Yes my Tahoe can tell you which tire and the pressure of each tire anytime you want it.  I usually look at the pressures when I've been running a while.  This morning I aired to 38psi all around with a gauge.  I had a 200 mile highway trip on blacktop.  After a while the were reading 42 on two and 41 on two.

 

On the bikes I'll notice a pound or two difference if the sun goes behind a cloud.  If you park it for lunch and the front wheel is in the sun (the rear is usually shaded by side cases), it will be up 3-5 lbs.  Overall, the tire pressures fluctuate continuously and can vary 10 psi during the day.  Getting real fussy about having exactly the right pressure in your tires is like trying to sharpen a rubber knife blade.

[Skywagon]

7 minutes ago, Lowndes said:

Getting real fussy about having exactly the right pressure in your tires is like trying to sharpen a rubber knife blade

Totally agree. I can usually tell when the bike needs air without looking. It gets kind of mushy. On my cars I can tell too… they don’t rattle as much:)

I use to crew for a formula ford guy in Ca.  The general rule was if the tire pressure goes up more than 10% from cold to hot, add some air. That is kind of my metric on the bike. 

[syntorz]

I also hate TPMS in my cars. Seems like there is always one sensor out or soon to be. But find it comforting on my K bike.

Rental car, northern Minnesota business trip in February. It's freaking cold, like -15 daytime temps. The FWD rental drives like sh¹t, and TPMS shows something like

44   22
25   32

It's 400 miles to home. So let's fix the handling and satisfy my OCD by setting pressures closer to spec before getting out of dodge. Deflate LF a bit, add to RF and LR. RR is good. The machine nor I have a gauge, its getting dark, so just go by seat of pants to get it....better.

So I feed the air machine with quarters and go about it quickly in -25 wind chill. Get back to warmth in the car, and now the dash shows something like

50   17
25   40

Damn rental office moved tires around and didn't bother to reset the TPMS. Not to mention didn't set the pressures correctly anyway. They got an earful upon return.