1997 R1100 RS 52K clackety clack

[ush1000]

Morning all,

 

My first post on this forum, from the UK been riding my whole life (64 yrs) now have my first oilhead. Also have a 1988 K100 which I love.

Bought the R cheapish needs a bit of TLC. Main thing is the clackety clack noise coming from the right (as you sit on the bike) side of the engine. No other symptoms, bike revs and rides ok. Thought initially it was valve clearances so adjusted those. More likely to be cam chain? I have just removed the cam chain tensioner which looks to be in good condition, I will replace the spring anyway just in case its compressed a little over time. Would be nice to get some feedback thanks. I have a BMW 1 series car with a cam chain made out of liquorice, hope the bikes are better ha ha

 

 

[King Herald]

The cam chain rattle is usually left side, which can be cured by fitting the updated tensioner. I've not heard of it happening on the right side, but I have heard of the plastic cam tensioner blades breaking and causing havoc occasionally. I've not delved inside my motor yet so not sure what the process is to inspect the tensioner blades. 

[dirtrider]

29 minutes ago, ush1000 said:

Morning all,

 

My first post on this forum, from the UK been riding my whole life (64 yrs) now have my first oilhead. Also have a 1988 K100 which I love.

Bought the R cheapish needs a bit of TLC. Main thing is the clackety clack noise coming from the right (as you sit on the bike) side of the engine. No other symptoms, bike revs and rides ok. Thought initially it was valve clearances so adjusted those. More likely to be cam chain? I have just removed the cam chain tensioner which looks to be in good condition, I will replace the spring anyway just in case its compressed a little over time. Would be nice to get some feedback thanks. I have a BMW 1 series car with a cam chain made out of liquorice, hope the bikes are better ha ha

 

 

Morning  ush1000

 

Diagnosing engine noises over the internet is very difficult but with enough info & feedback it is possible. 

 

It could be coming from the cam chain, I have seen a few make noise due to cam chain/sprocket wear so the R/H side tensioner can't quite keep it tight.  So you might try shimming the R/H cam chain tensioner spring with a small spacing washer (I have done this on a few & it did help).

 

You could also have a damaged chain tensioner plastic chain guide, not likely unless someone has worked in that area & broken it but it does happen (usually a broken guide outer tip).

 

You could also be dealing with excess rocker arm side movement so you might check the rocker arm side movement on the rocker shaft. If a lot of movement then re-set to just above minimum.

 

I have also found a  few older 1100 engines with worn elephants feet on the rocker arms allowing some noise as the valve lash closes up as the valve starts to lift. 

 

Then you can have some early 1100 engines that the 2 piece push rods collapse (telescope) but if that happened you should have found a large gap when you adjusted the valve lash. 

 

If all the valve gear is OK then you could have something like a clacking piston pin or even some piston slap (something like this takes a well experienced mechanic to isolate the noise & be able to differentiate the piston noise from valve noise).   

 

You might start your search by shimming the R/H side tensioner spring then re-evaluate. 

 

Then check the rocker arm side play & if a lot of movement loosen the assembly then close up the rocker side play gap.

 

If you still have the noise then buy a cheap mechanics stethoscope so you can listen to different areas on the R/H side to try to pinpoint what is causing the noise. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Michaelr11]

3 hours ago, ush1000 said:

Main thing is the clackety clack noise coming from the right (as you sit on the bike) side of the engine. No other symptoms, bike revs and rides ok. Thought initially it was valve clearances so adjusted those. More likely to be cam chain? I have just removed the cam chain tensioner which looks to be in good condition, I will replace the spring anyway just in case its compressed a little over time. Would be nice to get some feedback thanks.

 

 You've gotten good advice so far.  One item, not mentioned yet is the oilhead push rods.  It doesn't happen that often, but sometimes the tips of the original push rods get loose and they contribute to engine rattle.  Revised push rods can be used to replace them.  Not saying this is your issue, but it should be on the list of possibilities.

 

 

[ush1000]

Thanks, will try the shimmed tensioner first off!!!

[ush1000]

Ok that didnt really help. Someone has suggested worn cam buckets? and maybe pushrods as mentioned above. Ill investigate buckets first

[dirtrider]

23 minutes ago, ush1000 said:

Ok that didnt really help. Someone has suggested worn cam buckets? and maybe pushrods as mentioned above. Ill investigate buckets first

Morning  ush1000

 

On the pushrod issue, your 1997 should have the later pushrods but even if it has the multi-piece pushrods, as I mentioned in my post above, you should have caught that when did your valve adjustment.  Did any of valves have a lot of clearance when you adjusted them. The loose ends by themselves seldom cause the clacking, it is constant movement of the loose end in the tube that allows the end to telescope into the softer pushrod tube therefore increasing valve lash on that valve.

 

If the clacking noise didn't quiet down right after your valve adjustment then probably not related to a pushrod issue.  

 

I doubt the lifters (cam bucket) are your issue but it is slightly possible. 

 

Check out your chain guide tips using a bright light.

 

Also, check the rocker arms for excessive side play movement with some lash on all the valves on that side. (can't be properly checked with load on the rocker arms)

 

Use a long screwdriver or rod with one end on that side fuel injector & the other end to your ear.  In some cases the fuel injector can make a pretty solid noise when it triggers.

 

You might also try shorting out the sparkplug on the problem side as a test. That can change the piston load due to cylinder firing & sometimes help define a piston pin or piston slap noise from a valve noise (you need to increase the throttle when you do so you maintain about the same RPM) 

 

Are you SURE that it is the R/H side? There is chain on the front of the engine that can rattle (sometimes difficult to define or pin down & in some cases even more difficult to remove that chain noise)

 

[ush1000]

Thanks for detailed reply with lots of threads to explore. I must admit to a limited mechanical skill level, thought I was into valve adjustment then head off into the hills! I have an experienced BMW mechanic about 30 mins away, he has agreed to have a listen and offer advice. Just possible the left cylinder cam tensioner upgrade may help, also some BMW guys prefer to use 20_50 engine oil rather than recommended 10_40.

 

Anyway, enough to keep me out of mischief for awhile. Cheers

[Michaelr11]

11 hours ago, ush1000 said:

also some BMW guys prefer to use 20_50 engine oil rather than recommended 10_40.

 

Recommended by who?   20w50 is the standard recommendation, unless you are running in an extremely cold environment.

[ush1000]

My local man is some kind of bike whisperer, took him less than 30 secs to identify my problem. Worn throttle body. He put his hand under the body and applied pressure in just the right place and hey presto the noise disappeared. I believe someone suggested that may be the cause earlier. Thanks for your help guys

[dirtrider]

45 minutes ago, ush1000 said:

My local man is some kind of bike whisperer, took him less than 30 secs to identify my problem. Worn throttle body. He put his hand under the body and applied pressure in just the right place and hey presto the noise disappeared. I believe someone suggested that may be the cause earlier. Thanks for your help guys

Morning ush1000

 

The R/H throttle body rattle is pretty common on the older 1100 BMW boxer bikes. 

 

That is usually pretty easy to tell as the clacking noise usually goes away as soon as the throttle is opened a little. 

[dmsantam]

On 10/19/2022 at 2:09 AM, dirtrider said:

Morning ush1000

 

The R/H throttle body rattle is pretty common on the older 1100 BMW boxer bikes. 

 

That is usually pretty easy to tell as the clacking noise usually goes away as soon as the throttle is opened a little. 

old thread, but I found it trying to see if this right side throttle body clacking is common, sounds like it is. anything to worry about? it seems like the return spring is weak or something and it clacks at idle. I can firmly press it and it will stop. any throttle applied and it stops. cheers

[dirtrider]

27 minutes ago, dmsantam said:

old thread, but I found it trying to see if this right side throttle body clacking is common, sounds like it is. anything to worry about? it seems like the return spring is weak or something and it clacks at idle. I can firmly press it and it will stop. any throttle applied and it stops. cheers

Morning dmsantam

 

The clacking is usually caused by a couple of issues. 

 

First, is a slightly tight throttle cable as a tight cable will take stop lever tension off of the throttle stop screw therefore allowing the throttle lever to rattle on the throttle stop screw at idle.

 

Second, is worn throttle shaft bushings and/or a worn throttle shaft. On older 1100/1150 motorcycles the throttle shaft &  bushing wear can be pretty bad.

 

The L/H side usually isn't as bad as the TPS sensor keeps more tension on that side. 

[dmsantam]

thanks DR. I replaced the throttle cable, and synched the throttle bodies. with the cable seated on the stop on the right side, it still clacks. I did have to sacrifice the synchronisation slightly to ensure the cable wasn't off the stop. I have the early 1100 without the splitter box.

 

 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, dmsantam said:

thanks DR. I replaced the throttle cable, and synched the throttle bodies. with the cable seated on the stop on the right side, it still clacks. I did have to sacrifice the synchronisation slightly to ensure the cable wasn't off the stop. I have the early 1100 without the splitter box.

 

 

Afternoon  dmsantam

 

Then you probably have worn throttle shafts & bushings. Most old 1100 bikes eventually wear the throttle shafts & bushings. 

 

You can buy new throttle shafts & bushings. The rebuild parts & TB rebuild how-to is in the link below.

 

https://www.beemerboneyard.com/dcatatbkit.html

 

You can buy direct from DanCata  if you can find his new web site.  He recently obtained a new web site & I don't have that info. 

[Danny01]

This accessory might stop the clatter from the RH throttle body. Bit pricey though.

https://www.motorworks.co.uk/ticker-killer-fua00110-1.html

[Michaelr11]

18 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

You can buy direct from DanCata  if you can find his new web site.  He recently obtained a new web site & I don't have that info. 

https://www.spankraft.com/shop/

 

Dan Cata’s new website.

 

[dirtrider]

6 minutes ago, Michaelr11 said:

https://www.spankraft.com/shop/

 

Dan Cara’s new website.

 

Morning Michael 

 

Thanks for the new website info. 

 

It looks like more expensive directly from Dan as (Beemer Boneyard) usually gives a discount to members of this site (bmwsporttouring.com) if you mention being a member during ordering. 

[dmsantam]

9 hours ago, Danny01 said:

This accessory might stop the clatter from the RH throttle body. Bit pricey though.

https://www.motorworks.co.uk/ticker-killer-fua00110-1.html

Thanks for the link. This is also available locally to me. But I think that i'll just rebuild the throttle body to remove the wear, and that in theory should remove any air leaks as a results of the wear at the same time. 

[dmsantam]

https://www.motobins.co.uk/ item number ZZ13854 seems to be the best value source for the rebuild kits. 82 British pounds ($103 US) for the pair, and cheaper shipping than the US to Australia. 

[dirtrider]

12 minutes ago, dmsantam said:

Thanks for the link. This is also available locally to me. But I think that i'll just rebuild the throttle body to remove the wear, and that in theory should remove any air leaks as a results of the wear at the same time. 

Evening dmsantam

 

You need to understand how that one works, most of similar types (there are/were a few different versions) but most just put a side load on the throttle shaft so over time that wears the side of the throttle plate, or worse, the throttle body bore.  

 

If you find a lot of wear on the R/H side you should probably also do the L/H side. The left usually doesn't wear as bad but they can get some pretty good wear on them (the TPS just covers the clacking up) 

[dmsantam]

3 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Evening dmsantam

 

You need to understand how that one works, most of similar types (there are/were a few different versions) but most just put a side load on the throttle shaft so over time that wears the side of the throttle plate, or worse, the throttle body bore.  

 

If you find a lot of wear on the R/H side you should probably also do the L/H side. The left usually doesn't wear as bad but they can get some pretty good wear on them (the TPS just covers the clacking up) 

 

That's a worry. I will avoid this and just rebuild. I ordered rebuild kit for both sides. just need to wait a week or so for it to arrive from the UK. cheers. 

[dmsantam]

I rebuilt both the throttle bodies with the Dan Cata kit. There wasn't a lot of wear in the shafts, certainly nothing like some of the pics I've seen. Nonetheless, the clacking is cured, and all is well. 

[King Herald]

This popped up on Facebook a week ago, immediately after I had been googling the worn throttle body issue. An interesting alternative.  Its in Italian, but has subtitles. 

 

 

[Opposed to Everything]

Does the sound go away when you rev it?  I have an R90S that made noise on the left side and found that the rocker arm side play was to much.  Fixed the problem.

[dirtrider]

7 hours ago, Opposed to Everything said:

Does the sound go away when you rev it?  I have an R90S that made noise on the left side and found that the rocker arm side play was to much.  Fixed the problem.

Morning Opposed to Everything

 

Yes, a clacking throttle body noise usually goes way as soon as the throttle is opened (once the TB throttle shaft/pulley lifts off of the idle stop screw)

 

The best way to tell if the throttle body is causing the clacking  (that you have a worn shaft or bushing) is to just touch the throttle shaft pulley with your hand with a warm engine idling. If the clacking stops then most likely you have a worn throttle shaft or throttle shaft bushings. 

 

Once in a while, if a throttle cable is just little too tight, at hot cub idle then the tight side can clack at hot curb idle even with OK throttle shaft & bushings.   But placing your hand on the throttle shaft pulley will usually quiet it down. You can also touch the throttle cable at the TB exit to see if that is tight (no slack).

 

You can sometime eliminate, or change the clacking noise, by just putting the choke on as that slightly lifts the throttle cam off of the base idle screw.  If that changes or eliminates the noise then using your hand on the TB pulley is usually a good verification. 

[dmsantam]

Here is an example of the clacking caused by the worn throttle body shaft.