Buy AGV helmet from Netherlands retailer?

[Twisties]

For AGV K6 Joan, $549 in the US vs $329 from Champion Helmets with a Netherlands address.  The retailer has good ratings.  I've tried on the helmet and know my size and that I like it.  My concerns are that if anything goes wrong with it will it be like Scott's experience, or will I be able to resolve things under warranty here in the US?  Anyone know?  Worth the risk?  I've never needed warranty service on a helmet, but Sharon needed a replacement visor mechanism once.  Not sure what it would have cost or if would have been obtainable w/o warranty.

 

Scott's Experience

[Rougarou]

Nice helmet, odd buy it with combination, I bring nothing to this table

 

[lkraus]

Schuberth North America also refuses to provide support for European helmets.  I think you would be in the same situation as Scott. Not the same question, but not encouraging: https://support.agv.co.uk/support/solutions/articles/5000634893-i-purchased-my-helmet-from-another-country-whilst-on-holiday-how-do-i-claim-warranty-

 

AGV does list various contact methods here: https://www.agv.com/us/en/agv/contact-us/contact-agv.html  Give them a call and ask.

 

European helmets meet ECE standards, U.S. helmets meet DOT standards, and both are labelled accordingly. Providing support in a region where the helmet is not approved for use may present a liability issue.

 

I would feel safe in an ECE helmet, am not impressed by a DOT sticker, and have never needed warranty service on a helmet, but I don't buy helmets from Europe.

 

[Hosstage]

I'll say it again, I buy local to keep them in business and to deal with any problems that might arise.

A $200+ savings is not small, but ya takes yer chances. How much does shipping cut into that savings, especially if you pay to ship it back? How long to wait for a replacement or resolution if warranty work is needed?

Even if it is a straight up refund, how much will shipping cost you?

[9Mary7]

Will they actually ship it to you?

I ordered an Arai from England 'cause they don't import the paint scheme that I wanted. The vendor called me the next day to tell me they cannot ship to the USA as Arai will cancel their vendor agreement.

I buy as local as I can afford.

[Scott9999]

6 hours ago, Twisties said:

Scott's Experience

There ya go again.  Blaming "Scott" for not being able to safely order cheap stuff from the E.U.. 😡

 

More seriously, I bought from Motocard.com.  Took 5 days to ship, from order to delivery.  The would service and support the LS2, if I shipped it back (and we never got far enough to find out if they'd pay for shipping).   I paid $200 for a $400 helmet, and $50 shipping (i.e. I think shipping is free over a certain threshold).  I'd buy from them again, regardless of the prior results or risks, given the discount.   In shopping on Motocard in the past, helmets that are not available to the USA say that in plain language, if I've registered as a USA customer (i.e. the above pull down menu selects customer origin and language). 

 

The helmet you chose on Champion is available and will ship to the USA within 3 days from Motocard.  I'd buy from either vendor, but have experience with Motocard.   They have a price match policy, so check shipping terms for both.  You should be able to get that helmet, unless it's flagged as "not deliverable to your country" (i.e. that's how it is on Motocard, and I'm sure Champion will do something similar if they can't ship AGV to the USA).

https://www.motocard.com/en/helmets/agv-agv_k6_joan_black_blue_yellow_012.aspx

 

🍻

 

<start rant>

I don't mind supporting local vendors, and in fact, I shop a local cyclegear store.  They don't carry the helmet(s) I'm interested in, usually don't have the gear I want in stock, I can order from them online at a higher price then other vendors, but how does that help support local business?  It's like saying, "I won't support Amazon or Walmart online, but I'll order from Lowes or Costco, because I can pick up the item at the store", days or weeks after Amazon or Walmart would have delivered it to my home, for a much lower price.  

 

Business need to compete, period.  The only time government intervention is appropriate is when foreign governments or business engage in predatory pricing (e.g., if a foreign country shipped gas to American to sell at $0.99 a gallon, for a year, until every American supplier was out of business, then repriced their product at $15.00 a gallon, as a sole source supplier).   I'll buy from a local supplier who has earned my business over an online outfit, every single time, as long as they're competitive.   Sell me that AGV helmet for $359 at my local shop down the street, and they get the business over Champion, maybe even at $399.  However, at $550+?   No way.   

</end rant>

[Twisties]

I generally figure a premium  of about 25% for local service is acceptable.  Yes, the helmet is available in the US.  I tried one on at a Denver retailer.  I bought $1200 worth of gear from them, so didn't feel I really needed to buy the helmet there, and I agree it's a huge difference in price.  I'm leaning towards doing it from the Netherlands.  Champion is free shipping, but if you return the shipping cost is deducted from your refund.

[Twisties]

7 hours ago, lkraus said:

Schuberth North America also refuses to provide support for European helmets.  I think you would be in the same situation as Scott. Not the same question, but not encouraging: https://support.agv.co.uk/support/solutions/articles/5000634893-i-purchased-my-helmet-from-another-country-whilst-on-holiday-how-do-i-claim-warranty-

 

AGV does list various contact methods here: https://www.agv.com/us/en/agv/contact-us/contact-agv.html  Give them a call and ask.

 

European helmets meet ECE standards, U.S. helmets meet DOT standards, and both are labelled accordingly. Providing support in a region where the helmet is not approved for use may present a liability issue.

 

I would feel safe in an ECE helmet, am not impressed by a DOT sticker, and have never needed warranty service on a helmet, but I don't buy helmets from Europe.

 

The helmet is both ece and DOT.  I only buy helmets that are the same in both markets because I rely on SHARP ratings.  Thanks for your thoughts and the contacts.

[szurszewski]

You’ll likely get a helmet with an ECE sticker and no DOT sticker. 
 

I would not be surprised if AGV refused to service a helmet with either the wrong sticker for your country or no sticker at all, but if you did need parts and the helmet model is available here you might get lucky and get them to ship you parts without putting their hands on the helmet. 
 

You maybe saw this in the thread you linked because I think I mentioned it there. I bought a pair of helmets from Motocard that are not a available in the US and one had a defect. I had to ship it back to Morocard in Spain - tried several other avenues first, but all were dead ends. Shipping to me was fast at purchase. Shipping back to Spain was slow and getting it back from Spain took months. Mostly in US customs.

[TSConver]

You are buying Grey market they can legally refuse service. 

[Scott9999]

8 hours ago, TSConver said:

You are buying Grey market they can legally refuse service. 

It ain't gray market where he's buying it.

 

So, hypothetical:  A guy takes a trip to Europe.  Decides to buy a helmet and rent a bike.  Comes back home, leaves the bike, but takes his personal gear home.

OMG!!  He's got an evil gray market helmet!! 🙄

 

However, the camera, cell phone, computer, or other personal equipment he ALSO bought on that trip, are considered "legit" by their manufacturers, who will honor the terms of their warranty.  

 

A manufacturer can do anything it wants, that's good for it's business.  It can warranty a product for a lifetime, or for 10 days.  I don't care, because I don't run those companies.  If I buy their products, however, and they have a published warranty WHICH DOES NOT stipulate geographic restrictions, then they should honor their warranty.

 

"Gray Market" is buying from merchant who is unauthorized, i.e. not a legitimate dealer.   Twisties is buying from LEGITIMATE dealers, licensed by contract to sell the manufacturer's product.   We all make choices.  I choose to buy from reputable manufacturers who honor their warranties, and give benefit-of-doubt to their customers.  You may choose to buy overpriced items from local dealers (or maybe, you ARE a USA dealer), because presumably, those local dealers will run interference for you with the manufacturer, who doesn't like to provide warranty service.  Or, in fact, ANY OTHER service, as in the case of LS2.  If you need LS2 technical support, their USA "dealer" network will send you a video promoting their products.  Otherwise, there's no one "there" to take your service request.

 

There is a difference, you know it, and I know it, and it's got bunk to do with "Gray Market" purchases.   Again, buy from who you want, but IMHO, if you hear that a manufacturer refuses to provide technical support or honor their warranty for a item purchased from their dealer, you ought to find another source.

[szurszewski]

6 hours ago, Scott9999 said:

It ain't gray market where he's buying it.

 

So, hypothetical:  A guy takes a trip to Europe.  Decides to buy a helmet and rent a bike.  Comes back home, leaves the bike, but takes his personal gear home.

OMG!!  He's got an evil gray market helmet!! 🙄

 

However, the camera, cell phone, computer, or other personal equipment he ALSO bought on that trip, are considered "legit" by their manufacturers, who will honor the terms of their warranty.  

 

 

You're close but not quite. If he bought it for use in the Netherlands, then it wouldn't be grey market, but I would be willing to bet much monies that the retailer is authorized to sell to customers in their market, and not authorized to sell to a consumer for use in a foreign country (or at least outside the EU). That's what makes it grey market - buying a product  for use in a market where the seller is not authorized by the manufacturer. If I go to Japan and buy some Nikon body that's not sold in the US, or one with a serial number that designates as for sale to the Japanese domestic market, I would not expect an authorized Nikon repair facility in the US to provide warranty repair for that camera. They might be willing to service/repair it at MY cost, but maybe not even that - depending on what Nikon's rules are. 

 

The same is true for phones and all sort of other stuff. Motorcycles even! ;)

 

 

To be clear, I'm not saying Jan shouldn't buy the helmet if he thinks it's a good deal; just to be aware that he may end up in your boat if he needs AGV to fix a defect. 

 

Personally, I'd probably do it again to get a helmet I can't get here, but just to save money it would have to be a lot of money. Like, enough that if the helmet totally failed right away I'd not be too concerned about the lost dollars. 

 

 

[TSConver]

20 hours ago, Scott9999 said:

It ain't gray market where he's buying it.

 

So, hypothetical:  A guy takes a trip to Europe.  Decides to buy a helmet and rent a bike.  Comes back home, leaves the bike, but takes his personal gear home.

OMG!!  He's got an evil gray market helmet!! 🙄

 

However, the camera, cell phone, computer, or other personal equipment he ALSO bought on that trip, are considered "legit" by their manufacturers, who will honor the terms of their warranty.  

 

A manufacturer can do anything it wants, that's good for it's business.  It can warranty a product for a lifetime, or for 10 days.  I don't care, because I don't run those companies.  If I buy their products, however, and they have a published warranty WHICH DOES NOT stipulate geographic restrictions, then they should honor their warranty.

 

"Gray Market" is buying from merchant who is unauthorized, i.e. not a legitimate dealer.   Twisties is buying from LEGITIMATE dealers, licensed by contract to sell the manufacturer's product.   We all make choices.  I choose to buy from reputable manufacturers who honor their warranties, and give benefit-of-doubt to their customers.  You may choose to buy overpriced items from local dealers (or maybe, you ARE a USA dealer), because presumably, those local dealers will run interference for you with the manufacturer, who doesn't like to provide warranty service.  Or, in fact, ANY OTHER service, as in the case of LS2.  If you need LS2 technical support, their USA "dealer" network will send you a video promoting their products.  Otherwise, there's no one "there" to take your service request.

 

There is a difference, you know it, and I know it, and it's got bunk to do with "Gray Market" purchases.   Again, buy from who you want, but IMHO, if you hear that a manufacturer refuses to provide technical support or honor their warranty for a item purchased from their dealer, you ought to find another source.

 

100% wrong.

 

Grey market is when a shop sells an item outside its agreed to distribution area.  Applies to camera as well as helmets and most everything.  If you buy a Nikon camera from a European seller who legally can sell in his country but is not authorized to sell to the US and then you have an issue with it Nikon will not honor the warranty, canon is the same.  Helmet manufacturers just like any other manufacturer have deals with distributors and distributors have deals with retailers that limit what they can sell and where.  Often involves things like MAP or protection from other retailers overlapping your sales area.

 

A grey market or dark market (sometimes confused with the similar term "parallel market")^[1][2] is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels that are not authorized by the original manufacturer or trade mark proprietor. Grey market products (grey goods) are products traded outside the authorized manufacturer's channel.

[Scott9999]

1 hour ago, TSConver said:

 

100% wrong.

 

Grey market is when a shop sells an item outside its agreed to distribution area.  Applies to camera as well as helmets and most everything.  If you buy a Nikon camera from a European seller who legally can sell in his country but is not authorized to sell to the US and then you have an issue with it Nikon will not honor the warranty, canon is the same.  Helmet manufacturers just like any other manufacturer have deals with distributors and distributors have deals with retailers that limit what they can sell and where.  Often involves things like MAP or protection from other retailers overlapping your sales area.

 

A grey market or dark market (sometimes confused with the similar term "parallel market")^[1][2] is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels that are not authorized by the original manufacturer or trade mark proprietor. Grey market products (grey goods) are products traded outside the authorized manufacturer's channel.

SOoo, after you buy your Nikon camera from Walmart online, and it fails, you go to your local Walmart and ask their "technicians" in the Garden center to fix it?   Or, you call Walmart's overseas customer service center, and ask them?   I could certainly be wrong, but I believe you contact Nikon directly to solve your problem with their camera.  Not so, with LS2.  Now, if you bought your Nikon camera new, at half price, from a swap meet, you would probably have a problem with your gray market purchase.

 

I suppose "gray market" is a subjective concept.  Warranties and customer service, less so, because it's the consumer who determines if the company they dealt with has fidelity.  (True, warranties may be a legal contract, but not so "customer service", but customers vote with their feet before they hire lawyers to enforce a warranty.)

 

You folks can insist that products bought from "authorized dealers" outside your hometown, state, or country are "gray market", and I'll continue to maintain that you are wrong.  Maybe even 100% wrong.  Ultimately, manufacturers set their own limits and rules, (e.g. Paypal's recent about face, regarding levying $2500 fines on people with thoughts they dislike), and I as a consumer can tell them to "Go to h**".

[Hosstage]

Twisties, did you get the helmet, gray, black, or red market be damned?

[Twisties]

 

7 minutes ago, Hosstage said:

Twisties, did you get the helmet, gray, black, or red market be damned?

 

Ha!  Well that's the funny thing!  I tried to.  My CC Co threw a fraud alert and denied it.  I cleared all that up and they said go for it.  When I tried to buy it again the retailer's website gave a blank page where you complete the transaction.  I've emailed them for assistance.  Since then, I noticed at another retailer, that the K6 doesn't seem to have a UV protective visor, whereas the K3 SV I currently wear does. However, then I checked AGV's site and they don't specify that either helmet has a UV protective visor....  So I've emailed AGV for clarification of that, too.  Sunscreen irritates my skin, so I need a UV protective visor, although I suppose there might be an aftermarket film I could put on.  In any event, it's all on hold now.

[Hosstage]

Good luck, hope it works out!

[Twisties]

On 10/7/2022 at 11:58 PM, szurszewski said:

You’ll likely get a helmet with an ECE sticker and no DOT sticker. 

 

I've had two prior AGV helmets and they have had both.  

[szurszewski]

2 hours ago, Twisties said:

 

I've had two prior AGV helmets and they have had both.  

 

That's handy :) 

 

Jeremiah's current helmet is an AGV - but it's late and I'm too tired and lazy to go check now; maybe I'll remember when I get home from work later this week. 

[Rougarou]

12 hours ago, Twisties said:

 

I've had two prior AGV helmets and they have had both.  

 

But were they purchased Stateside?

 

 

 

My next iteration of head protectors will likely come from the EU (cause I'm cheep like that).  I'm not concerned about pink markets or warranty work as there is a micro-slim chance that I'll need any warranty work and if I did, meh, I'd deal with it at that time.

 

My only concern would be the DOT on the back,......and that's a minor, minor concern as I'd really have to piss of the LEO that pulls me over to have them check my DOT sticker for compliance.

 

Other sites that I've read, people have purchased helmets from the EU and they "have not" come with the DOT sticker.

[Hosstage]

 DOT sticker problem solved

 

 

 

[Twisties]

FWIW, on my AGV K3 SV the DOT and ECE approvals are in the paint job.  The retailer says I am clear to reorder.  Just waiting on AGV to respond to my inquiry on the UV protection in the visor. As well, I've never actually had anyone check.  Just not worried about it so long as I know it's a good helmet.

[Rougarou]

41 minutes ago, Hosstage said:

 DOT sticker problem solved

 

 

 

 

 

Sorta,....I think the new "dot approved" come with the helmet type within the sticker and some other gibberish

[Twisties]

AGV Chat response:

 

Quote

All warranty is handled directly through the point of purchase. Also, if you purchase a helmet from a EU dealer, it will come with a ECE sticker and not a DOT. (FYI)

 

[chrisolson]

So, in other words,   AGV has authorized that dealer  to sell EU spec AGV products but not US spec AGV products and further, that you can't take it to a US dealer for warranty claims .

 

Doesn't mean that US residents can't buy from them,  but the product you get will only comply with what the manufacture has authorized them to sell .... EU /ECE  approved products not DOT .

 

 

[TSConver]

1 hour ago, chrisolson said:

So, in other words,   AGV has authorized that dealer  to sell EU spec AGV products but not US spec AGV products and further, that you can't take it to a US dealer for warranty claims .

 

Doesn't mean that US residents can't buy from them,  but the product you get will only comply with what the manufacture has authorized them to sell .... EU /ECE  approved products not DOT .

 

 

 

Yep hence Grey Market

[Hosstage]

Is it grey or gray? So confusing.

[Rougarou]

20 hours ago, Hosstage said:

Is it grey or gray? So confusing.

 

You need to honour the colour.

[Hosstage]

Stoopid Canadiens...

[Twisties]

Well, done gone and done it.  From the NL, with the iridium blue visor.  Figured the DOT is just not an issue.  Odds of having a problem with the helmet seem small.  The seller was very responsive when I contacted him, responding promptly to several emails.

[Twisties]

Forgot to mention, AGV told me all of their visors are 100% UVa, UVb and UVc protective.  Also, the iridium blue visor is optically correct gray to look through from the inside.  Their iridium gold visor has some color effects, but is the exception.  AGV have excellent responsive chat service during open hours.