Interesting vibration

[Hadabadachada]

2004 R1100S 

 

im riding back from PA, I’m 800 miles in, and at my last couple fuel stops, as I’m slowing down, maybe 30-40 mph or so, I get this weird cyclic kinda vibration. It’s slower than the wheel rotates, so I’d assume slower than anything in the engine spins, kinda feels like maybe gears or something, like a, one one thousand, two one thousand type of vibe. And it’ll speed up when I speed up, just easier to notice at slower speeds. 
can’t hear anything, no weird noises. 
I tried to wobble the rear wheel on the center stand to see if anything moves, everything seems tight. 
can’t think of anything I did to make it happen. Been riding all week, hundreds of miles, 1000+ to get up here, now riding home im noticing this.

 

kinda hard to describe 

reminds me of a fishing reel with bad gears, turning the handle, at certain points of rotation there’s a vibration/roughness.

 

hoping I make it the last 400 miles home with no issues. 
 

just curious to see what kinda wild guesses I can get on here.

[dirtrider]

3 hours ago, Hadabadachada said:

2004 R1100S 

 

im riding back from PA, I’m 800 miles in, and at my last couple fuel stops, as I’m slowing down, maybe 30-40 mph or so, I get this weird cyclic kinda vibration. It’s slower than the wheel rotates, so I’d assume slower than anything in the engine spins, kinda feels like maybe gears or something, like a, one one thousand, two one thousand type of vibe. And it’ll speed up when I speed up, just easier to notice at slower speeds. 
can’t hear anything, no weird noises. 
I tried to wobble the rear wheel on the center stand to see if anything moves, everything seems tight. 
can’t think of anything I did to make it happen. Been riding all week, hundreds of miles, 1000+ to get up here, now riding home im noticing this.

 

kinda hard to describe 

reminds me of a fishing reel with bad gears, turning the handle, at certain points of rotation there’s a vibration/roughness.

 

hoping I make it the last 400 miles home with no issues. 
 

just curious to see what kinda wild guesses I can get on here.

Evening  Hadabadachada

 

Sounds like possibly a spline issue starting to show up. Pretty difficult to diagnose without feeling it or more info. 

 

The wheels are about the slowest rotating objects on your motorcycle while riding so if the vibration is slower than wheel rotating speed then it sounds more like something that isn't continuous.

 

Next time it happens pull the clutch lever in & coast, is the noise is still there while coasting then it probably isn't in the clutch, splines, or engine. 

 

The driveshaft & transmission spin a lot faster than wheel speed so unless there is something intermittent but repeatable then it's not in that area. 

 

Even the transmission splines are rotating much faster than wheel speed but they can slip a spline then lock back up every so many rotations so possible but definitely not a smoking gun type thing.   

 

 

[King Herald]

Give your front brake discs a wiggle, see if they are loose on the bobbins, that's all I can really think of, though it's a wild shot.

 

The only real vibration I've felt on my '97 1100r was when I overfilled with oil a tiny amount, but that was definitely engine speed vibes round 3500. 

[Mattlo]

Hi

 

I had a peculiar vibration on my R100GSPD. Could feel it through the seat. Turned out the driveshaft joint at the final drive side grenaded.   Needle bearings in pieces.  

[Hadabadachada]

 

3 hours ago, Mattlo said:

Hi

 

I had a peculiar vibration on my R100GSPD. Could feel it through the seat. Turned out the driveshaft joint at the final drive side grenaded.   Needle bearings in pieces.  

I think that is it. I gotta rip it down tomorrow.

I replaced the notched bearings with the nushings over a year ago, I think they may have gone. 
 

im so happy I just made it home right now. 1200 miles PA to Miami. 19 hours. I didn’t noticed any of that vibration at first but a little bit of the way in it was noticeable, and now towards the end at the last bunch of fuel stops, accelerating and decelerating, all kinds of feelings shakes wobbles and what not. 
 

God is good.

 

we will see tomorrow, I’m tired. 

[9Mary7]

9 hours ago, Hadabadachada said:

1200 miles PA to Miami. 19 hours

[Hadabadachada]

1 hour ago, 9Mary7 said:

yeah, gas station to gas station. 
 

so I pulled off the FD this morning, and I honestly can’t say that the nushings look that bad. 
 the pinion bolts fit right in nice and snug, I don’t see any cracks or deformities.

 

now even more questions come up

and im starting to think im going to have to take this to the dealer to look at, in hopes that they can actually solve it. 
 

the last couple rides were, in first and second gear around 3-4k rpm I’d get that cyclic feeling, wrawp wrawp wrawp, faster and it would go faster.

in the other gears there’s a vibration at lower RPM, then it kinda finds a spot where it’s relatively smooth. And when you’re slowing down there’s vibration in there until you’re going pretty slow, it kinda goes away.

 

it’s so difficult to describe.
maybe it’s a final drive gear thing, gear box thing, clutch thing, who knows. 

The bike shifts through the gears, engages disengages the clutch fine, no off feelings there, feels great actually. 
and I regularly check the rear wheel for play in every direction. 
 I just wonder if I can trust a dealership enough to trouble shoot and figure it. 
 

guess I’ll throw it back together and try to arrange an appointment.
 

[Hadabadachada]

I took everything apart, the nushings seem to be fine, so i have to assume it’s something with the final drive.

I had to get everything out of the way so I put it all back together and got a pretty rough sound spinning the wheel. 
 

Looking like FD issue.

[Hadabadachada]

Matt, who makes the nushings, said it looks like my u joint is pretty loose.

 

I was wiggling/turning it in the video to show how it feels pretty rough spinning the FD, I thought it was supposed to me relatively smooth. This is quite notchy and rough

this is with the oil drained as well, if that makes a difference 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Hadabadachada said:

Matt, who makes the nushings, said it looks like my u joint is pretty loose.

 

I was wiggling/turning it in the video to show how it feels pretty rough spinning the FD, I thought it was supposed to me relatively smooth. This is quite notchy and rough

this is with the oil drained as well, if that makes a difference 

 

IMG_0361.MOV 13.07 MB · 2 downloads

Afternoon Hadabadachada

 

Honestly I really can't tell as you are moving it way too fast &  randomly. 

 

I need to be able to see the rear section of the drive shaft  (rearward of the U joint) in relation to a controlled movement of the drive shaft (forward of the U joint). Slowly work it around then push/pull the shaft as you take another movie.

 

The spinning noise in the first video more points to a bad bearing than to a U joint noise. 

[Hadabadachada]

Yeah I had a kinda wiggle back and forth mixed in with trying to rotate it. It was notchy in the rotation, not smooth at all. I’ll have to post that when I take it apart again. 
tough part about not having a garage and being in Miami, too damn hot to work on things outside in any type of timely manor. 10-15 minutes at a time, fully drenched. 
 

Then it decides to rain out of nowhere so I gotta put things back together.

 

I also did notice shiny oil when I drained the FD. 
wasn’t quite sure, but when I let the oil drip on my hand I could see the shiny flecks.

as well as some oil on the inside of the drive sleeve where the u joint sits.

nothing coming down the swing arm.

 

im thinking I need to start looking at eBay for an FD.

[dirtrider]

6 minutes ago, Hadabadachada said:

Yeah I had a kinda wiggle back and forth mixed in with trying to rotate it. It was notchy in the rotation, not smooth at all. I’ll have to post that when I take it apart again. 
tough part about not having a garage and being in Miami, too damn hot to work on things outside in any type of timely manor. 10-15 minutes at a time, fully drenched. 
 

Then it decides to rain out of nowhere so I gotta put things back together.

 

I also did notice shiny oil when I drained the FD. 
wasn’t quite sure, but when I let the oil drip on my hand I could see the shiny flecks.

as well as some oil on the inside of the drive sleeve where the u joint sits.

nothing coming down the swing arm.

 

im thinking I need to start looking at eBay for an FD.

Afternoon Hadabadachada

 

If you have any gear oil or residue remaining in the drain pan then just run the shinny stuff between your thumb & forefinger. If it's smooth feeling then that is usually not too bad, but if it is sharp feeling then you have big issues.  

[Jim Moore]

If it's "grindy" when you spin the wheel it's probably the big bearing in the FD. If it goes "clunk-clunk, clunk-clunk" It's probably a u-joint in the driveshaft.. If you've pulled the FD and the u-joint on the FD looks OK it might be the front u-joint. You have to pull the swingarm to get a look at it. I haven't worked on an S in a long time, but I seem to remember there's something peculiar about the front swingarm pivots. That's not very helpful I know, but this might be. I have a driveshaft for an S. It was removed with 17K miles. You can have it for $200 shipped. 

 

How many miles on it, btw? I kinda look at a driveshaft as a 100K mile consumable.

[Hadabadachada]

Fair enough. 
 

I don’t feel sharpness when I check the oil between my fingers, but, this is the first time that all the oil had sparkles in it, usually I just have the little pieces on the drain plug that I can see.

 

I feel like I had a kinda grinding feel, that cyclic roughness, and some times, different speed or gear, felt kinda clunky. I feel like I have it all. 
I just went and spun the wheel again, had my hand on my luggage rack and felt the vibes through the rack while spinning.

 

bike has 73,000 miles on it.

 

ive never messed with the swing arm, I guess I should try. 
 

can’t upload bigger videos on here so here’s links

FD is not smooth at all to rotate, hits these rough spots.

Drive shaft feels plenty smooth 

 

[Jim Moore]

Do the u-joints rotate freely with no slop? They seem to, but it's a little hard to tell. 

[Hadabadachada]

4 minutes ago, Jim Moore said:

Do the u-joints rotate freely with no slop? They seem to, but it's a little hard to tell. 

I would say yes, they move free and I can’t feel any slop, if there is it’s like a fraction of a mm, feels good to me.

[Mattlo]

With my failed u joint I could definitely feel a notchiness when articulating the joint. Also the joint steel had a blue cast due to the heat buildup. And some of the needle bearings escaped the cups and in pieces. If you’re feeling no notchiness on the u joints then suggest to look elsewhere. 

 

 

 

[Hadabadachada]

I’m wondering if there’s still anyone out there who rebuilds these final drives? 
ive read so many posts from the past that mention a few folks who really have it down properly. I just wonder if any one still does it?

 

I removed the seal and inspected the crown bearing. It does not look like any rivets failed or anything really looks bad.

I can see tiny little specs of metal here and there. 
 

it’s just those rough spots when I rotate the pinion gear, I can’t imagine that’s normal on a properly aligned gear set.
Shouldn’t I be able to rotate it without it getting hung up? 
 

maybe the pinion bearing is bad? Something to cause the gears to not mesh properly? Causing the rough spots. 

 

wish I had more knowledge. 

[Jim Moore]

This guy rebuilds them.

 

www.largiader.com

[dirtrider]

7 hours ago, Hadabadachada said:

I’m wondering if there’s still anyone out there who rebuilds these final drives? 
ive read so many posts from the past that mention a few folks who really have it down properly. I just wonder if any one still does it?

 

I removed the seal and inspected the crown bearing. It does not look like any rivets failed or anything really looks bad.

I can see tiny little specs of metal here and there. 
 

it’s just those rough spots when I rotate the pinion gear, I can’t imagine that’s normal on a properly aligned gear set.
Shouldn’t I be able to rotate it without it getting hung up? 
 

maybe the pinion bearing is bad? Something to cause the gears to not mesh properly? Causing the rough spots. 

 

wish I had more knowledge. 

Morning Hadabadachada

 

Is the drive now removed from the motorcycle? If so then see if you can move the pinion splined shaft in or out or up/down. If any movement then you probably have bad pinion bearings. (that spinning noise in one of your first videos sort of sounded like it could be a bad pinion bearing)

 

You can also remove the entire side cover from your final drive, just remove the cover bolts then carefully pull the cover off. The cover should come off complete with spool & ring gear still still attached (you can even do this with the final drive still on the motorcycle).

 

You can then set the spool/ring gear on some blocks  then spin the cover on the spool to check for bearing noise or bearing looseness.

 

Or, you can set the cover on some supports (like blocks of wood) with the small bearing about 3" above a soft surface (like couple of old magazines or piece of plywood) then heat the cover from the top in the baring area. That should allow the bearing, complete with spool & ring gear, to drop out & down onto the soft surface. (you might have to give it a few taps with a rawhide or rubber mallet to allow it to drop free) or even a few taps with a piece of wood & a hammer but do heat the cover in the bearing arear first). Caution: do not lose the shim or shims that are between the bearing & the cover.

 

Then you can clean &  spin the crown bearing & check it for problems but that also then allows the pinion bearing to be easily spun & checked for grinding or looseness.   

 

If your problem is JUST the crown bearing then you can install a new one yourself if you can do some basic preload measurements & adjustments.  If the pinion bearing is also bad then a drive rebuild or good used final drive is probably needed. (having a drive rebuilt by a component rebuilder is expensive so a good used drive is probably a good alternative IF you can find one) 

 

[Jim Moore]

There appear to be several for sale on EBay right now. It's a little hard to tell which one you need.

[Hadabadachada]

56 minutes ago, Jim Moore said:

There appear to be several for sale on EBay right now. It's a little hard to tell which one you need.

I actually bought one on eBay yesterday. Only because the bike is my main transportation. I’d like to get it back to working. About 300 bucks. Downside is it has 67k on it, which is just below what I have, and there’s no real way to tell the condition obviously. Pictures can make anything look nice.

good part it there’s a 30 day return deal.

so I’ll at least get to compare that one with mine.

and it comes with a rear u joint. Which most people are charging over 100 for by itself.

 

from there I’ll figure what I’m going to do with mine. Make some calls to Long’s motorcycles in hopes the old BMW racer can have a look and maybe help me out. 
 

[Hadabadachada]

Everyone I called today said the same thing, look for a used one lol.

One of the two BMW dealerships in south Florida even said, we don’t work on bikes that are more than 10 years old, lol, dealership….wild

 

guess I hope this used drive is in good working condition.

thinking that if it is, I might even have to just put the bike up for sale after it’s installed, to not deal with any issues that there’s potentially no way out of. 
sucks since I just bought a new rear shock less than a month ago. 
 

I was looking at the break down, and they don’t even list some of the parts on them..

 

I’m thinking, maybe I just try and order new stuff and have a go. 
ultra expensive but what am I to do?

then I look at the parts diagram and 9 and 10 aren’t even listed. Any idea what they are?

 

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

13 minutes ago, Hadabadachada said:

Everyone I called today said the same thing, look for a used one lol.

One of the two BMW dealerships in south Florida even said, we don’t work on bikes that are more than 10 years old, lol, dealership….wild

 

guess I hope this used drive is in good working condition.

thinking that if it is, I might even have to just put the bike up for sale after it’s installed, to not deal with any issues that there’s potentially no way out of. 
sucks since I just bought a new rear shock less than a month ago. 
 

I was looking at the break down, and they don’t even list some of the parts on them..

 

I’m thinking, maybe I just try and order new stuff and have a go. 
ultra expensive but what am I to do?

then I look at the parts diagram and 9 and 10 aren’t even listed. Any idea what they are?

 

 

Evening  Hadabadachada

 

Those are spacers, you can reuse what you have in there now. 

[Hadabadachada]

Got my used FD in the mail today, spinning it right out of the box is majorly smooth compared to the notchy one that thankfully got me home.

 

only think that I’m confused about as I go to install is, are these some after market bushings?

they don’t come apart like the stock bearings, and they don’t seem to spin. Think I’ll just throw some grease on them and go?

I have a new set of nushings, maybe I just put those in…

 

[Hadabadachada]

[Hadabadachada]

Oh damn, sorry, those are bearings. The races were just STUCK in them.

 

nevermibd 

[King Herald]

Which are considered better, the Nushings you mention, or stock BMW taper roller bearings? 
I've just discovered mine are loose again, after I tweaked them up some 10,000 miles ago. The bike has just rolled over 95,000 miles on the originals. 

 

I was just reading up the Nushings installation instructions and it says you have to preload them tight enough they will support the weight of bevel drive when it's pushed into any position.