Front Brake Pad Replacement -- HH or V-pad?

[Cap]

I have a 2017 R1200RT with Brembo calipers.  I am approaching the point where some new pads are due.  I want to buy aftermarket pads from either Brembo or EBC.  The EBC pads are available on Amazon, which makes them my preferred solution.  Brembo has many different grades of compounds for different riding applications.  But EBC seems to have only a couple of options for the front pads: HH or V-pad.  I see that most of us on this forum choose the HH pads, but I wonder if anyone has experience with the V-pads?

 

The HH pads seem targeted at fast street riding and light track-day applications.  The V-pads seem to be targeted at daily riding with heavy street bikes.  This characterization suggests that the HH pads will be more efficient at higher temperatures, and the V-pads are optimized for lower operating temperatures.  It makes me wonder if the best choice for street riding might be the V-pads -- even for brisk riding on curvy roads.  In my case, when I choose to ride fast, I don't tend to grab a fist full of front brake at every corner, rather I tend to use gentle pressure trailing on and off so that I get the bike balanced and carry speed through the corners.  Which makes me wonder if the lower-temp pads might be better for brisk street riding.

 

V-pads anyone?

 

Cap

 

 

[alegerlotz]

I have the EBC HH pads, but I bought them from Beemer Boneyard (along with my maintenance kits, etc...).  I just checked there to see if they do ratings/reviews, but found none.  If you want to speak to someone about the differences, they might be able to help.

 

FWIW, I have no experience with the EBC V pads, but I'm very happy with the EBC HH pads and have not had detectable rotor wear with them.  Hopefully someone has tried both and can give you the comparison you're looking for.

 

 

[reg26]

I have the HH and like them. If I had to say something bad about them it would be that they seem to generate a lot  of brake dust. Much more that stock but it's not that big a deal. They seem to stop just as well as the stock ones at a MUCH more reasonable price. 

[Prz42]

I use these. Also the site ships to U.S.A. resonable.

Rear Brake Pads Brembo 07BB0390 Genuine Parts Sintered Street
https://www.carpimoto.com/en-US/23759_07BB0390-Brake-Pads-Brembo-07BB0390-Genuine-Parts-Sintered-Street-1-couple-for-1-disk-.htm
Brembo Serie Oro Brake Rotor 68B407G9, one (1) Rear Disk BMW R 1200 RT 14-, dim. 276mm
Front Brake Pads Brembo 07BB3884 Genuine Parts, (1 couple for 1 disk) you need two sets
https://www.carpimoto.com/en-US/42639_07BB3884-Brake-Pads-Brembo-07BB3884-Genuine-Parts.htm
Brembo rear brake disc | BRA64079

 

[9Mary7]

7 hours ago, Prz42 said:

I use these

Those are the HH pads.

I do not have experience with the V pads either, I'm an HH fan.

[2015 Blue RT]

Well I just put a set of V-Pads on the front of my 2015 RT, so I guess I get to be the guinea pig here. I came here to see if there is a bed in process for them, seems to be top secret on the EBC site. It's not on the packaging either, I guess that would make too much sense. The one video I watched referred people to their website. Best I can tell is street pads don't need this. The one page they had about bedding pads dealt with race or extreme street use, and didn't mention the V-Pads.

[dirtrider]

On 9/10/2022 at 11:25 AM, Cap said:

I have a 2017 R1200RT with Brembo calipers.  I am approaching the point where some new pads are due.  I want to buy aftermarket pads from either Brembo or EBC.  The EBC pads are available on Amazon, which makes them my preferred solution.  Brembo has many different grades of compounds for different riding applications.  But EBC seems to have only a couple of options for the front pads: HH or V-pad.  I see that most of us on this forum choose the HH pads, but I wonder if anyone has experience with the V-pads?

 

The HH pads seem targeted at fast street riding and light track-day applications.  The V-pads seem to be targeted at daily riding with heavy street bikes.  This characterization suggests that the HH pads will be more efficient at higher temperatures, and the V-pads are optimized for lower operating temperatures.  It makes me wonder if the best choice for street riding might be the V-pads -- even for brisk riding on curvy roads.  In my case, when I choose to ride fast, I don't tend to grab a fist full of front brake at every corner, rather I tend to use gentle pressure trailing on and off so that I get the bike balanced and carry speed through the corners.  Which makes me wonder if the lower-temp pads might be better for brisk street riding.

 

V-pads anyone?

Morning Cap

 

There is more to modern brake pad choice than just normal stopping while riding. There is also the ABS system calibration & spin-up that needs to be considered.  

 

If the ABS system is calibrated around, or with, a certain brake pad friction coefficient then the system read-ahead & release points are based on that pad's type & friction coefficient. 

 

If you start playing games with brake pads on a modern ABS system then you could desensitized some of the ABS function on slippery surfaces. 

 

BMW uses HH pads so you probably want to try to stay with an HH type pad if possible. 

 

I know nothing about using V pads but if you depend on the ABS system to perform as BMW designed then my suggestion is to not stray too far from OEM brake pad material.   

 

[Skywagon]

Cap… I use EBC HH. That’s all I’ve used on several bikes over a couple of decades. 
 

Sounds like your concern might be about stopping power. I’ve never experienced heat fade using them. I don’t ride track but do some spirited rides by my standard. I test my ABS stop a couple of times a year and it works just fine with these pads. I have no experience with V pads. 
 

[Cap]

Wow, a blast from the past! 

 

When I asked this question about EBC brand V-pads in September of 2022, I was facing a braking dilemma.  I had (maybe still have?) this problem on on 2019 RT where the front brakes developed a very slight stick-slip behavior that was only felt at slow speeds and light braking.  So, for example, while coasting up to a red light in town, applying the front brake would result in a very slight pulsing, accompanied by an audible alternating sound of the brakes dragging-then-not-dragging.

 

I bought this bike used with 7000 miles on it, and first noticed the problem on the ride back to Colorado after buying the bike in Chicago.  And this is one of the bikes with the Hayes-to-Brembo update, which was performed just before I bought it.  So, I was dealing with some unknowns regarding the way the previous owner may have misused the brakes, and how the upgrade was performed.

 

My first thought was that one of the brake rotors had some run-out.  I don't have a sophisticated way to measure that in my shop, but I did some shade-tree engineering and concluded that if there was any run-out it was very small.  I have a spare set of wheels having known-good rotors, and I installed those wheels, and the problem went away.  I removed the suspect rotors from their wheel, and inspected them:  They seemed unremarkable and unwarped.  So, my first action was to scrub the surface of the removed rotors with scotchbrite polishing pads, and some cleaning solvent.  I replaced the rotors and reinstalled the wheel, and the brake pulsing was gone.  Yay!  I win.  But the problem returned during my next extended tour over the course of about 2000 miles.

 

And that is what got me thinking about the brake pads.  Maybe they were contaminated and were depositing some material to the rotors, which caused the slight difference in friction as the wheel rotated, only noticeable at slow speeds?  I removed and re-scrubbed the rotors, and this time I also changed the brake pads.  I ended up using some pads that I purchased on eBay that were recommended by @Boxflyer.  They are branded "AHL" which is kinda humorously an acronym for "All products of Higher quality Lower price."  We shall see.  In any case, I tested them briefly with the freshly scrubbed rotors and they work fine with no pulsing.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity for a longer ride on the new brake pads with the scrubbed rotors.  I was using up the tread on my spare wheels.  So, I have about 5000 miles on the new brake pads with my spare wheels and I can say that the pads work great and I prefer the performance of the new pads to whatever brand had been installed with the Hayes-to-Brembo conversion.  I have the scrubbed rotors reinstalled on the bike with a fresh set of Dunlop RS4 GT tires, waiting for riding season in Colorado.

 

Cheers, Cap

[dirtrider]

6 hours ago, Cap said:

Wow, a blast from the past! 

 

When I asked this question about EBC brand V-pads in September of 2022, I was facing a braking dilemma.  I had (maybe still have?) this problem on on 2019 RT where the front brakes developed a very slight stick-slip behavior that was only felt at slow speeds and light braking.  So, for example, while coasting up to a red light in town, applying the front brake would result in a very slight pulsing, accompanied by an audible alternating sound of the brakes dragging-then-not-dragging.

 

I bought this bike used with 7000 miles on it, and first noticed the problem on the ride back to Colorado after buying the bike in Chicago.  And this is one of the bikes with the Hayes-to-Brembo update, which was performed just before I bought it.  So, I was dealing with some unknowns regarding the way the previous owner may have misused the brakes, and how the upgrade was performed.

 

My first thought was that one of the brake rotors had some run-out.  I don't have a sophisticated way to measure that in my shop, but I did some shade-tree engineering and concluded that if there was any run-out it was very small.  I have a spare set of wheels having known-good rotors, and I installed those wheels, and the problem went away.  I removed the suspect rotors from their wheel, and inspected them:  They seemed unremarkable and unwarped.  So, my first action was to scrub the surface of the removed rotors with scotchbrite polishing pads, and some cleaning solvent.  I replaced the rotors and reinstalled the wheel, and the brake pulsing was gone.  Yay!  I win.  But the problem returned during my next extended tour over the course of about 2000 miles.

 

And that is what got me thinking about the brake pads.  Maybe they were contaminated and were depositing some material to the rotors, which caused the slight difference in friction as the wheel rotated, only noticeable at slow speeds?  I removed and re-scrubbed the rotors, and this time I also changed the brake pads.  I ended up using some pads that I purchased on eBay that were recommended by @Boxflyer.  They are branded "AHL" which is kinda humorously an acronym for "All products of Higher quality Lower price."  We shall see.  In any case, I tested them briefly with the freshly scrubbed rotors and they work fine with no pulsing.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity for a longer ride on the new brake pads with the scrubbed rotors.  I was using up the tread on my spare wheels.  So, I have about 5000 miles on the new brake pads with my spare wheels and I can say that the pads work great and I prefer the performance of the new pads to whatever brand had been installed with the Hayes-to-Brembo conversion.  I have the scrubbed rotors reinstalled on the bike with a fresh set of Dunlop RS4 GT tires, waiting for riding season in Colorado.

 

Cheers, Cap

Morning Cap

 

That is probably brake pad disposition (at least that is what we call it at engineering department where I work).

 

Some brands/types/material-content brake pads are very bad & others not so much. 

 

It USUALLY (but not always) happens right after a very hard stop from speed. Like exiting a freeway at 80-90 mph with very hard braking turning the brake rotors red hot (actually probably purple hot). THEN sitting at a stop with the brakes held on causing the brake pads to stay tightly clamped to those very hot brake rotors. That can cause certain resins, or pad binders, in some brake pads to leave a pad deposit in that exact location on the brake rotor. 

 

That rotor stain that the pads leave causes a different surface friction in that location so you then get a brake pulsation as the brake pads cross that stain. 

 

The other thing that can happen is, some brake pads hold moisture so if you wash or park the motorcycle after riding in the rain then the damp pads can cause a brake rotor oxidation stain or discoloration on the rotors & that can also change the braking friction in that area on the brake rotor causing a light pulsation. 

 

If the problem goes away after scrubbing/cleaning the rotors but later comes back then first thing to try is to NOT sit still with brakes held on after a high speed very hard stop. Either don't hold the brakes on or keep creeping forward a little until the rotors cool off. In fact this is a good habit even if you don't have re-occurring brake pulsation issues.  

 

If it keeps happening then a different brake pad (material/type) might be a good investment. OEM usually puts a decent amount of brake pad material testing into their OEM brake pads to decrease the risk of rotor staining.